Kevin Love

#26
#26
nbakerld said:
Yeah, I know. I thought your point was that it's easy to rack up stats on bad teams, but it seems now your point is it's also easy to rack up stats on good teams?
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On awful teams it's real easy to get your numbers. On great teams, featuring a HOF player and two more all-stars, it's easy to pick up numbers, too.
 
#27
#27
TennesseeFan07 said:
On awful teams it's real easy to get your numbers. On great teams, featuring a HOF player and two more all-stars, it's easy to pick up numbers, too.
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Interesting. Bosh's numbers declined significantly going to Miami (-5 ppg, -2.5 rpg).
 
#29
#29
nbakerld said:
Dude, you are way off in your assessment. Anybody that can average 9-10 defensive boards is inherently a dominant defensive player. Anybody that can average 20+ (25 so far this season) on as few shots as he takes is inherently a dominant offensive player. What you mean is that he's not extremely versatile. He's not going to block a lot of shots, and he's not going to cross guys over, but he does the most important things (scoring and rebounding) as productively as anybody in the league.

And he can create his own offense in his own way. 6 offensive rpg, so far this season. That's insane!
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My assessment of defense and offense is about encompassing the ENTIRETY of defense and offense. Kevin Love does a few aspects of each VERY well. He is incredibly bad at others. The ones he's good at are the ones people look at in the box score. A ton of players can score, a ton of players can rebound.

If I'm going to call someone dominant on defense, he's going to rotate quickly, he's going to guard pick and rolls well, he's going to be a great helpside defender and patrol the paint, he's going to get his hand on loose balls, he's going to change and challenge shots inside and be able to guard the leagues best big men one on one and not require a double team. Kevin Love does not do that.

If I'm going to call someone dominant on offense (and this is the one Kevin is closer and has a better chance of becoming), he's going to to be able to create his own shot after the initial catch from a guard's pass (not able to yet), he's going to make shot after shot and require double teams and still score efficiently (getting better), he's going to make the right pass on offense (he does mostly), he's going to be in the right position in the offense (mostly is except when the plays stall then he stands too much).

Look, I love watching Kevin play and think he has potential to be a GREAT player. But he is not dominant nor is he quite able to be THE guy yet. He has a chance to get there but only time and this team will tell if he can or not. He has a great work ethic and has really done a lot of work on his body over the last 2 years. I wish him the best no doubt. But he is far from dominant in any aspect of the game other than box score stuffing.
 
#30
#30
JelloPuddinPup said:
My assessment of defense and offense is about encompassing the ENTIRETY of defense and offense. Kevin Love does a few aspects of each VERY well. He is incredibly bad at others. The ones he's good at are the ones people look at in the box score. A ton of players can score, a ton of players can rebound.

If I'm going to call someone dominant on defense, he's going to rotate quickly, he's going to guard pick and rolls well, he's going to be a great helpside defender and patrol the paint, he's going to get his hand on loose balls, he's going to change and challenge shots inside and be able to guard the leagues best big men one on one and not require a double team. Kevin Love does not do that.

If I'm going to call someone dominant on offense (and this is the one Kevin is closer and has a better chance of becoming), he's going to to be able to create his own shot after the initial catch from a guard's pass (not able to yet), he's going to make shot after shot and require double teams and still score efficiently (getting better), he's going to make the right pass on offense (he does mostly), he's going to be in the right position in the offense (mostly is except when the plays stall then he stands too much).

Look, I love watching Kevin play and think he has potential to be a GREAT player. But he is not dominant nor is he quite able to be THE guy yet. He has a chance to get there but only time and this team will tell if he can or not. He has a great work ethic and has really done a lot of work on his body over the last 2 years. I wish him the best no doubt. But he is far from dominant in any aspect of the game other than box score stuffing.
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This sums it up perfectly.
 
#32
#32
JelloPuddinPup said:
My assessment of defense and offense is about encompassing the ENTIRETY of defense and offense. Kevin Love does a few aspects of each VERY well. He is incredibly bad at others. The ones he's good at are the ones people look at in the box score. A ton of players can score, a ton of players can rebound.

If I'm going to call someone dominant on defense, he's going to rotate quickly, he's going to guard pick and rolls well, he's going to be a great helpside defender and patrol the paint, he's going to get his hand on loose balls, he's going to change and challenge shots inside and be able to guard the leagues best big men one on one and not require a double team. Kevin Love does not do that.
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Balogna. He averages 15 rpg (he gets his hands on 15 loose balls per game). Do you know how many guys averaged 10 rpg last year? Only 6. And there are 4 guys that shot a higher TS% while scoring 20 ppg, last season. There is one other guy in the league that can compete with him in scoring efficiency and rebounding. Not lots. 1. Dwight Howard.

Again, it doesn't matter in what way you score, it matters how productively you score. If love is making 15 finger-rolls per game on 25 shots, who cares if he can't do a turn-around jumper? He is dominant. Not versatile. Versatile does not mean dominant.
 
#34
#34
nbakerld said:
What does that mean in the scheme of things?
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The frontline was a joke. Someone had to get numbers in the post, but the backcourt was far superior and had plenty of fastbreaks to keep Bosh from getting his normal garbage points.
 
#35
#35
TennesseeFan07 said:
The frontline was a joke. Someone had to get numbers in the post, but the backcourt was far superior and had plenty of fastbreaks to keep Bosh from getting his normal garbage points.
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I'm not following.

Bosh supposedly had inflated numbers in Toronto cause he was playing for a bad team.

According to your theory, moving to a good team like Miami shouldn't have hurt his numbers (I'm assuming because he can be more selective with shots, etc.).

Now you are saying because he didn't have a good frontline around him his numbers suffered? I'm not following at all.
 
#36
#36
All negative comments regarding Kevin Love are racist. The dude is as solid a basketball player as there is on the planet. All this "lack of versatility, doesn't block shots, etc" is because he isn't an elite athlete. He is a white Tim Duncan, you know the greatest PF ever, with a 3pointer and better outlet passer.

Case closed.
 
#37
#37
TBrown said:
All negative comments regarding Kevin Love are racist.
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Stupid.

The dude is as solid a basketball player as there is on the planet.
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You said it yourself. Since when does solid = best at anything? He's a really good player. The best player at their position doesn't tend to finish last in the NBA. In fact, they usually get their team to the playoffs even if it's the 8th seed.

"All this "lack of versatility, doesn't block shots, etc" is because he isn't an elite athlete.
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Actually, it's because he sucks on defense and doesn't block shots. If that equates to not being an elite athlete, then yep.

He is a white Tim Duncan, you know the greatest PF ever, with a 3pointer and better outlet passer.
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Not even close to Tim Duncan. So in other words, dumb.

Case closed.
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Good thing OJ and Casey Anthony didn't have you for a lawyer. :)
 
#38
#38
Impressive job splitting posts. Anytime the word racist is used on this site, it's a joke. I never said he was the best at anything or the best PF. gimme some Duncan/Love stat comparisions since I know you don't have **** else to do.

The_Orange_Pearl said:
Stupid.



You said it yourself. Since when does solid = best at anything? He's a really good player. The best player at their position doesn't tend to finish last in the NBA. In fact, they usually get their team to the playoffs even if it's the 8th seed.



Actually, it's because he sucks on defense and doesn't block shots. If that equates to not being an elite athlete, then yep.



Not even close to Tim Duncan. So in other words, dumb.



Good thing OJ and Casey Anthony didn't have you for a lawyer. :)
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#39
#39
And Casey Anthony's lawyer was terrible. The prosecution was just worse.
 
#41
#41
@NBAKERLD

Look, I really like Kevin Love. I do. He's an amazing player. But the fact is that he is NOT dominant. It's pretty telling so far that Love hasn't been voted an All-Star yet. I think he was wrongly missed last year but still. Dominant players don't get passed over in the All Star game. Heck, even guys that USED to be dominant don't get passed over.

You obviously love throwing out numbers for your speech. That's great. I think Love puts up great numbers. But fact is that numbers don't tell the whole story. On paper, Love is as good as they come. Watch his games though. Dominance is just not associated with his style of play and the way his team plays. That's not a knock against him. I just don't think he has the right opportunity to be dominant yet. Too many players require shots and usages on his team for him to be dominant. He's a product of his team's system. There aren't many players shooting well outside on the Wolves so he gets a lot of opportunity there and excels. Not a lot of competition for him to get rebounds on his team plus he's an amazing talent at getting in the right position to rebound so he excels at that too. The other parts of his game are tough on him because the style his team plays and the players that are around him. Give him some solid role players, another all-star talent and things may change.

Until then, Kevin Love is not a dominant player.
 
#42
#42
The_Orange_Pearl said:
Actually, it's because he sucks on defense and doesn't block shots. If that equates to not being an elite athlete, then yep.
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So if he could block 2 shots a game, you'd think he were a good defender? Let me put this in perspective:

On the reg, NBA players make 50% of their shots. If you block 2 shots per game, you saved your team from surrendering 2 points (on average). But a block doesn't necessarily change possession. So maybe the opposing team gets 2 points anyways. Maybe the block gives them the ball in better position in both instances, and they get 4 points.

Now let's compare that to a defensive rebound. Love gets 10 of those per game. Every time he gets a defensive board, it is a change of possession. Every time he gets one he has contributed to a defensive stop. A block doesn't mean they stopped anything, necessarily.

So if you block 2 shots per game, the other team likely still ends up with 2 points. If you get 10 defensive boards, that's 10 second chances you prevented (so 10 points).

I realize the ability to block shots can alter shots, but it doesn't make a big difference in most cases. Rebounding is much more impactful than blocking shots.
 
#44
#44
T'wolves won their first game without Kevin Love...

And since everybody knows that I think he is overrated, now I have reason to dislike him. Pacers beat them like a week ago and this is what Love had to say after the game...

"I've said all along," Love said, "I don't like the Pacers."

"I know that none of them were going to do anything," said Love, who finished with 21 points. "Just play ball. It's part of the game -- a hard foul, everybody is getting fouled out there."

"(They think) they are so tough," Love said. "They take those pills and they got all that toughness. I don't know where that comes from. They all think they are tough guys. I just don't know where that comes from. It just blows my mind. They are all tough and that makes me laugh."

"I guarantee the next time we play them, it will be just as physical," he said.
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Ironic... he calls out the Pacers for being "tough guys" and then he proceeds to stomp on someone's face. He doesn't like physical basketball for 48 minutes but street fighting during the game is acceptable. "I know that none of them were going to do anything"... yeah, because they aren't being paid to fight, they're being paid to win basketball games. It's obvious that physical play gets under Kevin Love's skin. The Wolve's shut down Demarcus Cousin last night. If Love had played last night, Cousins probably would have put up better numbers because he's physical and Love is not.
 
#45
#45
That's the first game they've won without Love in over 2 years (0-12). It was against the 9-16 Kings and they win at home by the skin of their teeth. At least they are getting better. Love is a beast.
 
#46
#46
zjcvols said:
I'll take Blake Griffin.
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Blake is more athletic, can jump out of the gym but he is the polar opposite of Footballs Tebow, ESPN Sportscenter loves him, he is a highlight machine with the dunks but Love is much better all around player...if Blake ever developed the inside out game then he would be better
 
#47
#47
Let's be honest, who wouldn't kick Luis scola if given the opportunity?
 
#48
#48
badkarma said:
Blake is more athletic, can jump out of the gym but he is the polar opposite of Footballs Tebow, ESPN Sportscenter loves him, he is a highlight machine with the dunks but Love is much better all around player...if Blake ever developed the inside out game then he would be better
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Griffin: 21.2 ppg, 10.9 rpg, .548 TS%, 3.1 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.8 topg
Love: 25.0 ppg, 13.6 rpg, .593 TS%, 1.7 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.6 topg

I didn't realize this, but Love is only 1 year older than Griffin. I'll take Love.
 
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