Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Darth_Vol]

For those who say Kellie isn’t the best coach, Kellie was able to get the Lady Vols to 13 SEC wins; the most since 2014-2015. That’s one big positive moving forward.

Given the current state of the SEC it really isn't the big positive you're making it out to be, nor did it improve their SEC standing from her first three seasons...

 

[glv98]

Given the current state of the SEC it really isn't the big positive you're making it out to be, nor did it improve their SEC standing from her first three seasons...

While this is all technically true, I'm going to say it feels way better to win all the games you're supposed to win in the league than to get upset by teams like Auburn, Vandy, etc like in previous seasons. I just wish we hadn't lost that one to Miss St, of all teams.

It espec feels better in a season where we haven't won any we weren't supposed to win. Can't we at least have the mediocre SEC success?

Mark me in the Spinelessly Accepting ledger. I'm an easy date.

 

[Majors]

Given the current state of the SEC it really isn't the big positive you're making it out to be, nor did it improve their SEC standing from her first three seasons...

I didn’t want to be the first to say it. She won the game she was supposed to win and lost the 2 games that help extend contracts.

 

[Prophet1]

If Key comes back, next years team might over perform in the way that this years team has underperformed. Key and Hollingshead is the twin towers foundation that Kellie needs for her old skool style to be effective (again SC is doing the exact same thing with the right personnel).

Kellie desperately needs an upgrade at PG and ideally one with more size-- a 6'1 PG who can guard--for her system to really work. A new improved Sara and Tess will plug right in to that line-up.
Wynn could be huge in this system too.

Still not clear how Kellie will use Pissott but perhaps as the offensive spark off the bench.

In an ideal world, she finds another player like Alexis Dye in the portal; a hardnosed, athletic, decent sized, "defend and crash the boards till you die" type player.

Kellie is not changing her system. Rickea has had to adapt her game to Kellie but this team is not quite built (with Key out) to make this retro-game truly competitive against top 10 opponents, as the record clearly shows.

As I see the big contingencies as being whether Key comes back and if she is 100%; landing the right kind of PG in the portal; and the power forward option (though not as essential as Key and the PG).

Kellie wants "three yards and a cloud of dust" on the hardword and by analogy you got have a big O-line and some bruising runners to make a go of that. So, let's get behind Kellie "Woody Hayes" Harper.

{You young whippersnappers can use that newfangled googly thing to find out about Woody)

There is a possibly that Tamari Keys may come back this year , remember I told you so. If she does come back for SEC or NCAA Tour , she will not return to the Knox.

 

[Prophet1]

My thought on Harper is that AD can move on after the season or move on in a couple of seasons up to him. We've seen what were going to get with her. It is there to see after four seasons. If you like what your getting keep doing what were doing every season. If you think we can do better time to make that move. I really like Harper was on her side from the beginning thought she might be up to the challenge of rebuilding Tennessee back to the top. She is not going to be able to meet that challenge. She might hit the sweet sixteen this season that shouldn't be the goal in year four. Whether she makes the sweet sixteen or not this hasn't been the season that we can say were back. I don't see any evidence that next season will even measure up to this one.

Her biggest mistake this year was that damn schedule, beside just think if she had Jordan and Rickea plus Keys for one more year.
It could happen.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Having jobs as both a manager and strategic planner I try to take the emotion out of things. I can make an argument for another year or not. I typically believe every coach should get a minimum of 5 years before being yanked but there are times the answer appears obvious earlier.

With that said, I think AD White has to be evaluating a couple of major things.

• Is CJH learning and adjusting her coaching style to her talent and game flow or is she stuck in a certain style and stubborn to change? Coaches must grow and change as the game/roster changes.
• What does the future hold from a roster standpoint? If you fire her this year, how will it hurt the recruiting class coming in for 2023-2024? If you wait a year and get rid of her next year after a small class in 2023-2024 does the 2024-2025 class fall apart too meaning two years of low recruit classes. Will two bad recruiting classes put the program further behind?

In summary, a good AD will decide on how CJH is growing/changing and how the future is shaping up today versus how it will shape up if you make a change this year or next.

How AD White answers those questions should lead him to a decision. He is he CEO of a business not a fan club, so he must remove emotions and make business decisions.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Having jobs as both a manager and strategic planner I try to take the emotion out of things. I can make an argument for another year or not. I typically believe every coach should get a minimum of 5 years before being yanked but there are times the answer appears obvious earlier.

With that said, I think AD White has to be evaluating a couple of major things.

• Is CJH learning and adjusting her coaching style to her talent and game flow or is she stuck in a certain style and stubborn to change? Coaches must grow and change as the game/roster changes.
• What does the future hold from a roster standpoint? If you fire her this year, how will it hurt the recruiting class coming in for 2023-2024? If you wait a year and get rid of her next year after a small class in 2023-2024 does the 2024-2025 class fall apart too meaning two years of low recruit classes. Will two bad recruiting classes put the program further behind?

In summary, a good AD will decide on how CJH is growing/changing and how the future is shaping up today versus how it will shape up if you make a change this year or next.

How AD White answers those questions should lead him to a decision. He is he CEO of a business not a fan club, so he must remove emotions and make business decisions.

You left the most wise statement unspoken!

 

[glv98]

Having jobs as both a manager and strategic planner I try to take the emotion out of things. I can make an argument for another year or not. I typically believe every coach should get a minimum of 5 years before being yanked but there are times the answer appears obvious earlier.

With that said, I think AD White has to be evaluating a couple of major things.

• Is CJH learning and adjusting her coaching style to her talent and game flow or is she stuck in a certain style and stubborn to change? Coaches must grow and change as the game/roster changes.
• What does the future hold from a roster standpoint? If you fire her this year, how will it hurt the recruiting class coming in for 2023-2024? If you wait a year and get rid of her next year after a small class in 2023-2024 does the 2024-2025 class fall apart too meaning two years of low recruit classes. Will two bad recruiting classes put the program further behind?

In summary, a good AD will decide on how CJH is growing/changing and how the future is shaping up today versus how it will shape up if you make a change this year or next.

How AD White answers those questions should lead him to a decision. He is he CEO of a business not a fan club, so he must remove emotions and make business decisions.

One more bullet point, IMO. What does the future hold from a new coach standpoint? What level coach do we want and what are we willing to pay? Who's out there when you need someone that might be interested at whatever pay level we'll go to? So much of coach hiring is timing.

AD will have a better idea of coaching buzz after the F4 and the annual coaches meetings where the networking goes on. Also the spring portal will be an important element. I don't think anything actually happens this year, but acknowledgement of problems and discussions of solutions are definitely in order. It's not too soon to start thinking queitly in the direction of possible future coaching if it becomes necessary. It's a process and groundwork has to be laid.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

One more bullet point, IMO. What does the future hold from a new coach standpoint? What level coach do we want and what are we willing to pay? Who's out there when you need someone that might be interested at whatever pay level we'll go to? So much of coach hiring is timing.

AD will have a better idea of coaching buzz after the F4 and the annual coaches meetings where the networking goes on. Also the spring portal will be an important element. I don't think anything actually happens this year, but acknowledgement of problems and discussions of solutions are definitely in order. It's not too soon to start thinking queitly in the direction of possible future coaching if it becomes necessary. It's a process and groundwork has to be laid.

There is only one question as far as I am concerned, does he have access to a coach who will provide better results than the one he has got. Bet he does not fall into the false trap that THIS IS TENNESSEE or "it can't get any worse." That get's you solutions like Kiffin or Tyndal. But he should ask that question every year about every coach. It has not been all that long ago many on here coveted the grease ball from KY. I will let DW deal with this situation on his own timetable.

 

[willinhf]

Unpopular view:

Women: 13-3 in the SEC and a 3 seed in the SEC tournament. 21-10 final record

Men: currently 10-6 in the SEC and 1 game up for the 4th seed. 21-8 currently overall record.

Mile high view: Women in as good a place as Men if not better in my opinion....

 

[Majors]

Unpopular view:

Women: 13-3 in the SEC and a 3 seed in the SEC tournament. 21-10 final record

Men: currently 10-6 in the SEC and 1 game up for the 4th seed. 21-8 currently overall record.

Mile high view: Women in as good a place as Men if not better in my opinion....

Men won the SEC last year and knocked off the #1 team this year. Not disagreeing on the record, but I would say the men have more to hang their hat on currently as far as being in a good place.

 

[Coach Jumper]

One more bullet point, IMO. What does the future hold from a new coach standpoint? What level coach do we want and what are we willing to pay? Who's out there when you need someone that might be interested at whatever pay level we'll go to? So much of coach hiring is timing.

AD will have a better idea of coaching buzz after the F4 and the annual coaches meetings where the networking goes on. Also the spring portal will be an important element. I don't think anything actually happens this year, but acknowledgement of problems and discussions of solutions are definitely in order. It's not too soon to start thinking queitly in the direction of possible future coaching if it becomes necessary. It's a process and groundwork has to be laid.

This staff needs the very same thing the last staff needed,,,someone in the mix who is not a yes-man,,
Who will get in a closed room with the HC and not hold their tongue.

That last outburst about not changing and starting not being important would be top of the list of my convo!...and YES, I can be there tomorrow!

 

[glv98]

I didn’t want to be the first to say it. She won the game she was supposed to win and lost the 2 games that help extend contracts.

LOL, don't hold back. This has been said approximately 10 million times. You have little chance to be the first to say this or just about anything else.

 

[Majors]

LOL, don't hold back. This has been said approximately 10 million times. You have little chance to be the first to say this or just about anything else.

Correct, I have it on paste when we beat the lesser teams. But the point was to Darth letting it be known to the comment that was made about the 13 wins.

 

[glv98]

Correct, I have it on paste when we beat the lesser teams. But the point was to Darth letting it be known to the comment that was made about the 13 wins.

LOL I see, you were deferring to Darth, the King of the Cult! Let no man speak before him!

Have to hand it to you guys, you are riding high. Couldn't have dreamed of the big goose egg against top teams and a whole season unranked could you? Enjoy the moment, it's part of the fan board fun.

 

[madtownvol]

LOL I see, you were deferring to Darth, the King of the Cult! Let no man speak before him!

Have to hand it to you guys, you are riding high. Couldn't have dreamed of the big goose egg against top teams and a whole season unranked could you? Enjoy the moment, it's part of the fan board fun.

And we gain a new dictionary definition of "unholy alliances"......

 

[Coach Jumper]

LOL I see, you were deferring to Darth, the King of the Cult! Let no man speak before him!

Have to hand it to you guys, you are riding high. Couldn't have dreamed of the big goose egg against top teams and a whole season unranked could you? Enjoy the moment, it's part of the fan board fun.

wow,,,,that really puts this season into perspective

 

[Majors]

LOL I see, you were deferring to Darth, the King of the Cult! Let no man speak before him!

Have to hand it to you guys, you are riding high. Couldn't have dreamed of the big goose egg against top teams and a whole season unranked could you? Enjoy the moment, it's part of the fan board fun.

Wouldn’t call it riding high…but more of little faith in the direction of the program under this staff while those we are chasing on as business as usual. Now we are fighting to pull up next to programs who have emerged the last few years and knocked us off in the rise. But do agree, fan boards are fun and I take no issue with someone not handling my view of all things Tennessee.

 

[Volfan2012]

Unpopular view:

Women: 13-3 in the SEC and a 3 seed in the SEC tournament. 21-10 final record

Men: currently 10-6 in the SEC and 1 game up for the 4th seed. 21-8 currently overall record.

Mile high view: Women in as good a place as Men if not better in my opinion....

The men have the far better wins and also some of the losses have been worse as well. The women have only a 5 and 10 Q1 record but have not lost to anyone other than a Q1. The men have a better Q1 record, but have lost to a Q2 more than once. If you measured it by the NCAA Tourney then you would have to give it to the men's team who are currently a three seed to the women's five seed. Both teams have been under their pre-season projection we'll see how both teams progress through what is left of the season.

 

[madtownvol]

The men have the far better wins and also some of the losses have been worse as well. The women have only a 5 and 10 Q1 record but have not lost to anyone other than a Q1. The men have a better Q1 record, but have lost to a Q2 more than once. If you measured it by the NCAA Tourney then you would have to give it to the men's team who are currently a three seed to the women's five seed. Both teams have been under their pre-season projection we'll see how both teams progress through what is left of the season.

I fear that Creme's #5 seed projection is overly optimistic. The pollsters consistently having the LVs outside the top 25 are a counter indication that the actual seeding committee might be more skeptical. The LVs may need a deep run in the tournament (i.e., make it the championship game and perhaps needing to win it) to make that #5 seed reality. But, if KY could do it last season, no reason the LVs could not surprise now.

 

[Volfan2012]

I fear that Creme's #5 seed projection is overly optimistic. The pollsters consistently having the LVs outside the top 25 are a counter indication that the actual seeding committee might be more skeptical. The LVs may need a deep run in the tournament (i.e., make it the championship game and perhaps needing to win it) to make that #5 seed reality. But, if KY could do it last season, no reason the LVs could not surprise now.

We know were not a four seed that was revealed last week. We'll end up somewhere in the 5. 6,7 area depends on how far we get in the tourney. We really have some great numbers NET 15 RPI 19 SOS 2 but only five Q1 wins. I don't think it matters that much if your not a top 16 as your not playing at home and that is what you wanted to strive for with your season schedule,

 

[Coach Jumper]

We know were not a four seed that was revealed last week. We'll end up somewhere in the 5. 6,7 area depends on how far we get in the tourney. We really have some great numbers NET 15 RPI 19 SOS 2 but only five Q1 wins. I don't think it matters that much if your not a top 16 as your not playing at home and that is what you wanted to strive for with your season schedule,

if we won t he semi=5 seed
win the SEC and it has to be a four

 

[Orange Maniac]

Win the semi game to get to the championship game and we will be a four seed. The committee already considered making us in the top 16. We didn't quite make it, but we are on the cusp.

 

[Vols2015]

TN will need to win their game on Friday, and Saturday, to at least make runner up in SEC tournament to be ranked, and to be a 5 seed. If they win the tournament (overcoming SC, which is doable) I would argue TN storms in as a top 4 seed, but they must win the games.

 

[JohnTN]

I take exception to John Adams article today comparing Holly's first four years to Kellie's first four. Holly started with an excellent roster whereas Kellie had to start with what Holly left her. I would compare Holly's last four years to Kellie's followup four years.

Looking at all games her last four years Holly was 86-47, Kellie is at this point 83-37 with chance to add a couple more wins. And this is with the very tough out of conference schedule this year.

Looking only at SEC games, Holly was 36-28, Kellie is 42-18 with chance to add a couple more games. How could you not see this as improvement?

The coaching change was made because the program was going down hill. Kellie has reversed the trend I would say. Holly's first three years were very good. The last four were not. I think Kellie's record shows a positive trend and does not deserve to be labelled mediocrity.