K-Mac and Tuttle key to victory against OU

[Specks]

+100. I bet if you could sit down with Butch in private, and be completely off the record, he'd admit he wishes they had gotten Dobbs under center well before the Bama game. Remember...HE STARTED PETERMAN OVER DOBBS in that game!!! The same Peterman who transferred out.

Dobbs could have gotten them a few more wins last season and had more experience going into the meat of the schedule. Bottom line is, no one is bashing Butch, but he is a fallible human being like the rest of us. He sometimes makes mistakes in his line of work, just like we may in ours.

Read about 5 posts before this. It may answer some questions if true.

 

[midtnvol2]

I was at the game and Shy was on the field getting a few reps. He didn't however get as much push as O'brien and Williams did. Kmac and Shy are good players but they are still very green right now. Their role now should be as backups until they progress thru the season, learn how to play at this level, and develop more. Baring any injuries their playing time should increase thru the season. Patience Grasshopper, patience.

 

[montanatenn]

At the pace BG ran plays, we would have had to take an injury time-out to administer oxygen to Kmac after 3 plays. He may get more snaps this week with a little slower pace by OK between snaps. We didn't have substitution time against BG. He's gonna get in better condition as the season progresses.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Yeah..thats because conditioning as a 340lb dt is quite different than a 230lb rb. You really dont see the difference?

But it ain't like Khalil has only been able to play 2 solid snaps in HS. I ain't believing that silly shiite, one bit.

Also, he's been in the S&C program this summer + part of fall camp. The guy has the biggest freaking legs you've ever seen and is strong as an ox...his being in the lineup only helps to get the D off the field so they don't have to play several snaps in a row.

Bama managed to do pretty well with Mt. Cody, who is probably in no better shape than Khalil is.

 

[Power T-Rev]

According to reports, Owen Williams is the strongest guy on the team. Beast in the weight room, so I'm pretty sure he can hold his own

 

[sjt18]

Janzek and Coach Strip both repeatedly expressed concern LAST YEAR, that our DT's were undersized. Nothing has changed in that regard, when we start Obrien and Williams ahead of Tuttle and Khalil McKenzie. Yes, I know they are true freshmen, but they are nonetheless, the best DT's we have on the roster

This is also why I was hoping the staff would keep Mosley on the DL, if they had no plans to start him on the OL. We had very little push up front, on Saturday, and that allowed Johnson to step up in the pocket time after time, after time, and deliver a strike downfield.

Owen Williams and Obrien are average DT's in the SEC, at best. They are probably little or no better than some of the DT's Bowling Green sees in their own conference. I'm afraid....like holding Dobbs out for most of the season hurt last year....keeping Tuttle and K-Mac out of a regular 2 deep rotation is going to prove to be a critical mistake.

Having said that, I wondered well before the opening game, whether or not Butch might choose to hide his "secret weapon" on defense, to let loose on OU...so they have little to no film to game plan against him (K-Mac).

Anybody else wonder the same? After all, the Bowling Green game was effectively a preseason game. Why show your best hand too early, right? I hope that is what is going on, cause we NEED K-Mac and Tuttle to play a LOT in order to collapse the pocket up the middle and stiffen the line against the run.

Barnett and Maggit will have a tough time, again, hitting their mark if the big freshmen don't play.

Not sure why you felt compelled to start a thread to disrespect O'Brien and O Wms... and yes, that's what you did.

FWIW, O'Brien is not playing at over 300.

 

[VolAllen]

Yeah..thats because conditioning as a 340lb dt is quite different than a 230lb rb. You really dont see the difference?

My point is that playing Hurd was risky, but that didn't stop them from playing him. Put KMac in the game and just see what happens. He might get tired. He might sack the QB 5 times..

 

[615vols]

My point is that playing Hurd was risky, but that didn't stop them from playing him. Put KMac in the game and just see what happens. He might get tired. He might sack the QB 5 times..

But wasnt is it said that they did just that Saturday and kmac was already winded after like 3 snaps?

 

[sjt18]

He also didn't believe Dobbs was ready and had Worley not gotten hurt midway through the season, we'd have been sitting home on New Years Day.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. Worley threw the ball well. A healthy Worley probably gives Mizzou more problems than Dobbs did. He probably burns USCe's secondary as bad throughout the game as Dobbs did late in it.

This whole "I know better than the coaches who should be playing" schtick is just dumb. I've been critical of the coaches... but you can't intelligently criticize or disagree with someone if you DON'T HAVE the information they have.

 

[sjt18]

My point is that playing Hurd was risky, but that didn't stop them from playing him. Put KMac in the game and just see what happens. He might get tired. He might sack the QB 5 times..

He's going to play... when he's ready and the opponent is right.

 

[crunchimusmaximus]

I love how posters just assume Kmac isn't ready and come up with all the typical freshman jibe and he missed his last year of HS talk.

Truth is know one really knows.

What we do know is if Worely hadn't gotten injured last year, record wise Butch would be just as bad as Dooley. I'm not saying he's a bad coach like Dooley but anyone who doesn't question obvious mistakes by a coach is sheepish.

I repeatedly questioned Dooley on this forum during year two of his tenure and was met with the same the coaches know much than us jibber and trust the staff.

I'm certainly not saying Butch is Dooley...

What I'm saying is I will question him up and down until he proves me otherwise on the field.... So far we at least know ges an elite recruiter...

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

If they were our best options they'd be starters

Josh Dobbs was our best option at QB last year and it took injuries to 2 guys ahead of him on the depth chart for him to get a chance. I wouldn't put anything past this staff.

They somehow tried to convince us Colton Jumper was a better option at MLB last week and it took one quarter for us to know Kirkland is the better player.

 

[Pacer92]

I don't see either of these guys playing a huge role Saturday. Oklahoma's offense just goes too fast.

Soon......but, too soon..

 

[crunchimusmaximus]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. Worley threw the ball well. A healthy Worley probably gives Mizzou more problems than Dobbs did. He probably burns USCe's secondary as bad throughout the game as Dobbs did late in it.

This whole "I know better than the coaches who should be playing" schtick is just dumb. I've been critical of the coaches... but you can't intelligently criticize or disagree with someone if you DON'T HAVE the information they have.

I would bet my life you said the same during the Dooley years.

Butch didn't start Dobbs until Worely was injured...you would have to be a total sheep to blindly trust they don't make mistakes in always playing the best guys.

Coaches are paid millions of dollars so we have every right to question then especially after huge errors such as not playing Dobbs earlier happens.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

My point is that playing Hurd was risky, but that didn't stop them from playing him. Put KMac in the game and just see what happens. He might get tired. He might sack the QB 5 times..

So if playing Hurd is risky, wouldn't it also be risky if we played Kamara or Kelly as well? Hell might as well not have a running back on the field if you're going to go by that argument.

 

[fatvol]

If he just had his green jersey traded in, wouldnt that indicate something?

 

[VolAllen]

So if playing Hurd is risky, wouldn't it also be risky if we played Kamara or Kelly as well? Hell might as well not have a running back on the field if you're going to go by that argument.

Did Kamara miss a season and have shoulder surgery? I'm saying, if you were willing to play Hurd, play KMac. You never know how a player is going to do until you let them in a game.

 

[turambar85]

This "invincible staff" worship is getting old too. I like Butch as much as anyone, but sometimes coaches make decisions they wish they could take back. Holding Dobbs out most of the year proved to be one of those occasions.

Holding Tuttle and K-Mac back because they are freshmen has the potential to be as critical of a mistake as that one was.

I can assure you that whatever reasoning Butch & Co. had for not playing Khalil against BGSU does NOT include the fact that he is a freshman. There is no staff in the country more disposed to letting young talented players into the 2-deep (even if we are only so inclined out of necessity).

Jauan Jennings is starting...and a much deeper position than DT. Did Butch forget that he is a freshman? Kirkland got a lot of action at LB. Last year, half of our starters were freshmen. Butch does not have a bias in favor of the established upperclassmen.

If McKenzie and Tuttle are not playing as much as we had hoped, it is because they are either not seen to be ready to start (read, better than our current starters), because they need a bit of work on something, or because he is, for whatever reason, waiting until the Oklahoma game (or the Florida game, or whenever) to let them burst onto the scene.

Butch has a reason for keeping them on the bench as much as he did. And, you can be confident that it is an objectively good reason. Now, does that mean that it is *correct*? Absolutely not! We are all fallible, and even experts make mistakes. But, he isn't a child, and he isn't a fool. His decisions are grounded in the best available evidence. And there is no doubt that the evidence he has available to him wipes the floor with (y)ours.

 

[fatvol]

I would bet my life you said the same during the Dooley years.

Butch didn't start Dobbs until Worely was injured...you would have to be a total sheep to blindly trust they don't make mistakes in always playing the best guys.

Coaches are paid millions of dollars so we have every right to question then especially after huge errors such as not playing Dobbs earlier happens.

What if he practices poorly? My goodness how is that difficult to get?:rtfm:
:stinker2:

 

[crunchimusmaximus]

And what's up with this removing the black stripe crap???

Stripes or no stripes I don't trust who is ready to play and who isn't until I see them in an actual game.

Enough with the gimmicks and the favoring of super high character guys over more talented ones. Talent is what wins....plain and simple. See Urban Meyer, early Miami teams and Fulmer led UT teams for proof.

This staff lost any leverage for trust when they started Worely and Peterman over Dobbs last year.

Peterman also had his black stripe removed....
Whooptie dooooo....

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

This "invincible staff" worship is getting old too. I like Butch as much as anyone, but sometimes coaches make decisions they wish they could take back. Holding Dobbs out most of the year proved to be one of those occasions.

Holding Tuttle and K-Mac back because they are freshmen has the potential to be as critical of a mistake as that one was.

Especially given how impressive true freshmen on other teams have been so far. Just look around the nation see how many true freshmen made huge impacts in week 1. Everyone knows about what Josh Rosen did, but I watched a replay of the Louisville/Auburn game and Louisville had a true freshmen QB (Lamar Jackson) come in after the first quarter and almost lead them to a comeback victory over Auburn. Gary Danielson was comparing him to Mike Vick. And I couldn't disgree. I also saw 5 star true freshmen Kyler Murray, Daylon Mack and especially Christian Kirk ignite Texas A&M in their win over ASU.

I watched lots of games over the weekend and heard true freshmen after true freshmen breaking the 2-deep of several quality teams and making big-time contributions early. No reason why our stud true freshmen can't do the same considering we had a consensus top 5 recruiting class according to every service.

Butch needs to man up and put the best playermakers out on the field. Not the guys he thinks won't make the most mistakes. Sometimes coaches focus more on what can go wrong with trusting young players than focusing on what can go right.

 

[crunchimusmaximus]

Especially given how impressive true freshmen on other teams have been so far. Just look around the nation see how many true freshmen made huge impacts in week 1. Everyone knows about what Josh Rosen did, but I watched a replay of the Louisville/Auburn game and Louisville had a true freshmen QB (Lamar Jackson) come in after the first quarter and almost lead them to a comeback victory over Auburn. Gary Danielson was comparing him to Mike Vick. And I couldn't disgree. I also saw 5 star true freshmen Kyler Murray, Daylon Mack and especially Christian Kirk ignite Texas A&M in their win over ASU.

I watched lots of games over the weekend and heard true freshmen after true freshmen breaking the 2-deep of several quality teams and making big-time contributions early. No reason why our stud true freshmen can't do the same considering we had a consensus top 5 recruiting class according to every service.

Butch needs to man up and put the best playermakers out on the field. Not the guys he thinks won't make the most mistakes. Sometimes coaches focus more on what can go wrong with trusting young players than focusing on what can go right.

Dang straight....it was foolish not to play Kmac more against BG unless Butch really is saving him up for Oklahoma.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It's gonna take a total team effort in all 3 phases of the game to beat OU.

If Tuttle and Mac can help great, if not, the team will go without them. I'm not sure how much difference 2 true freshman can make in a game like this.

One could argue Christian Kirk and Kyler Murray made the difference in Texas A&M's week 1 victory over Arizona State. Kirk scored 2 TDs and Kyler Murray started helping move the offense after it stagnated under Kyle Allen. Don't buy into the myth that true freshmen can't make a difference in wins or losses. If they're talented enough, they definitely can.

We won't win against OU unless Tuttle, Phillips, McKenzie, and Kirkland get alot more snaps. They're simply too talented to keep off the field against a quality opponent.

 

[Pacer92]

Especially given how impressive true freshmen on other teams have been so far. Just look around the nation see how many true freshmen made huge impacts in week 1. Everyone knows about what Josh Rosen did, but I watched a replay of the Louisville/Auburn game and Louisville had a true freshmen QB (Lamar Jackson) come in after the first quarter and almost lead them to a comeback victory over Auburn. Gary Danielson was comparing him to Mike Vick. And I couldn't disgree. I also saw 5 star true freshmen Kyler Murray, Daylon Mack and especially Christian Kirk ignite Texas A&M in their win over ASU.

I watched lots of games over the weekend and heard true freshmen after true freshmen breaking the 2-deep of several quality teams and making big-time contributions early. No reason why our stud true freshmen can't do the same considering we had a consensus top 5 recruiting class according to every service.

Butch needs to man up and put the best playermakers out on the field. Not the guys he thinks won't make the most mistakes. Sometimes coaches focus more on what can go wrong with trusting young players than focusing on what can go right.

Big bodied DL weren't the best option versus a fast paced offense like BGSU and probably not against another in Oklahoma.

Calm down....Their time is coming..

 

[turambar85]

Dang straight....it was foolish not to play Kmac more against BG unless Butch really is saving him up for Oklahoma.

Rule of thumb: if the decision of an expert seems *obviously* wrong to you, then you are missing something. You've made a mistake somewhere. You've missed key information, or you have made an error in reasoning.

As my last post suggested, experts can, and often are, wrong. But given that they know much more than us, and are better trained to process what they do know, the odds that we not only justifiably believe that they are mistaken, but that we can do so with enough confidence to denounce their decision as asinine are vanishingly small.