Justin Worley discussion (mega-merged)

#328
#328
sjt18 said:
I believe Dobbs can lead the team to a bowl game.

He should probably be on a VERY hot seat going into '15 if he fails to make a bowl game this year. If he loses the rest of them then he needs to be on some sort of probationary status going into '15.

You seem to be saying that he is... but explaining why he isn't.

After 3 years assuming the '15 class finishes OK... UT can afford a coaching change. A new coach would come in to a roster with talent and some depth. It is an extreme example but Malzahn replaced Chizk and probably won more than twice as many as GC would have with the same players.

The right coach will be able to win with the talent that UT has now that will be more mature by '16. You cannot give a coach indefinite time to prove they can actually coach and win.
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The Auburn analogy is completely wrong. You are forgetting that those were Malzahn's guys. He had recruited most of the guys on offense prior to leaving for a whole year. It's not like Auburn had to learn a whole new system, they knew that system already so of course they had instant success.

As for replacing the coach, so you want to give Butch time to get his players in and a year or two to learn his system and then turn them over to another coach? I'm just not sure that is logical thinking.
 
#330
#330
TennaciousD957 said:
Losing Worley for the rest of the year would be a killer to our bowl hopes. However, even if we lose all the rest of our games, firing Butch would be an epic mistake that would be death penalty to our program.

Is Butch accountable for the season no matter how we finish? In fact the moment I saw Worley under center in the Ole Miss game with the score 27-7 with 7 minutes left, I said "what the hell is Worley still doing in the game?". Butch made a very bad decision to keep Worley in a game that was out of contention and cost us dearly. Worley was literally hurt on the next play.

This is Butch's mess, but firing him is not an option. First of all 2 seasons is not enough to measure Butch's chance of success. Secondly, the current state of program cannot afford another coaching change.
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27-3* I wish we scored a TD
 
#334
#334
1standgoal said:
A 4 and 8 season guaranteed, possible lost to Vandy would spell immediate coaching change.
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I've been saying all year the team will end up 4-8 because Worley or not, we culdn't compete with the tough schedule and wouldn't surprise anyone this year. Almost proven wrong at Georgia but Hurd fumbled away that game.

As for Jones, he will get another year regardless.
 
#335
#335
Fijivol72 said:
The one thing those with eyes know Peterman is afraid and plays that way. Give the ball to dobbs. Ps do we ever catch a #ING break?????
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NO. I think we are cursed. Maybe Dooley was correct about the dark cloud hanging over Knoxville. After watching the Vols for decades, it does seem like we are one of the unluckiest teams I have ever seen. GEEZ!!!:eek:hmy:
 
#338
#338
1982Alum said:
I've been saying all year the team will end up 4-8 because Worley or not, we culdn't compete with the tough schedule and wouldn't surprise anyone this year. Almost proven wrong at Georgia but Hurd fumbled away that game.

As for Jones, he will get another year regardless.
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Hurd didn't lose us that game. At the start of the game UT could easily have been atleast 17-0be or more but missed wide open receivers and turnovers we didn't capitalize on that had us in great field position. No the turnover didn't help but the way Gurley was running all over us we would haveI most likely have had to punt out of
the endzone and given them great field position also. But nobody knows how it would have gone. Bajakian had gotten very conservative even with Worley before he got hurt and kept trying to run the ball. We had open receivers all day and were moving the ball when we passed but as usual his horrific playcalling also hurt us. He didn't start throwing again till we got 10 points behind and again we moved the ball effectively. He never gave Nate much chance to try anything and GA blitzed Peterman everydown when he did drop back. Bad Oline and all if we had a better and more creative OC we most likely win GA and UF. But that loss was far from Hurds fault.
 
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#340
#340
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
The Auburn analogy is completely wrong. You are forgetting that those were Malzahn's guys. He had recruited most of the guys on offense prior to leaving for a whole year. It's not like Auburn had to learn a whole new system, they knew that system already so of course they had instant success.
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This is perhaps the most overexaggerated thing to come out of these discussions. I said it was an extreme example... meaning that a coach that can coach can do a lot with talent that a coach who can't coach... cannot do. If Jones is still under .500 for his tenure after 3 years then it will be pretty obvious to many if not most that he's not cutting it. A 3 win season this year would leave a VERY steep climb in '15 for him to survive.

As long as they aren't being asked to transition to the Bear D or single wing O... The players are adaptable. As many have speculated, some of the players Jones has brought in might even play better in a more pro-style O.

As for replacing the coach, so you want to give Butch time to get his players in and a year or two to learn his system and then turn them over to another coach? I'm just not sure that is logical thinking.
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Bama went through a series of 3 or 4 year coaches before finding a winner. LSU did too. UGA did. USCe did. Vandy did. Ole Miss did. TAM did. UK did.

Basically a guy has to prove he can win within the first 3 years or else he's pretty much proven he can't. I'm not talking about going from 5-7 to championships but rather from 5 wins to say 9. If you keep a coach that doesn't do this then program image declines and you stop getting the players you need to ever turn things around. At some point there... you leave a hole in recruiting just like the one that now plagues UT's roster.

UF fired Zook for several reasons but one of them was that he wasn't playing for championships and they knew it would hurt recruiting to keep an underperforming coach. He never had a losing record. He was a very good recruiter. But they recognized that the trajectory of their program because of his lack of ability to get it done on game day would hurt them.

If it comes to it which I hope it doesn't... I hope UT's AD has the same wisdom.
 
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#341
#341
dillyo51 said:
And would deserve it.
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Did Dooley? If not for injuries to Hunter and Bray in his 2nd year then it is likely that they would have gone bowling.... and had a general image of an improving program. That might have even bought him some slack for the stupid attempt to go to the 3-4.

I don't think so. A coach should get 3 years to make a move. It doesn't have to be a championship but the on the field product should be clearly improved in every way.... to include wins... by year 3.
 
#343
#343
sjt18 said:
I believe Dobbs can lead the team to a bowl game.

He should probably be on a VERY hot seat going into '15 if he fails to make a bowl game this year. If he loses the rest of them then he needs to be on some sort of probationary status going into '15.

You seem to be saying that he is... but explaining why he isn't.


After 3 years assuming the '15 class finishes OK... UT can afford a coaching change. A new coach would come in to a roster with talent and some depth. It is an extreme example but Malzahn replaced Chizk and probably won more than twice as many as GC would have with the same players.

The right coach will be able to win with the talent that UT has now that will be more mature by '16. You cannot give a coach indefinite time to prove they can actually coach and win.
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I see what you are saying, but who in this forum actually believes that this administration can make a better hire than who we currently have? Coaching hires put us in this situation. For now, IMO, less is more as far as "administrative decisions" are concerned.
 
#344
#344
CBJ from most fans please don't start Peterman. It will be 14-0 with turnovers before the 5 minute mark. Not ragging Peterman but nothing he has done to date Tfl and ga performance makes the case. Coach do the right thing Dobbs is our only option.
 
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#347
#347
zartan said:
As in syphillis is better than Ebola
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#349
#349
Carlitovol said:
I seriously think we have the best chance in this game if we run the wildhurd and/or wildpig the whole game. I wouldn't feel that way if we were playing at Bama because of crowd noise, etc. But I think at home it would give us the best shot to win..

JMO
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I guess if you want to see nothing but three and outs. Defense would be wore out before half time.
 
#350
#350
lilesrt said:
I see what you are saying, but who in this forum actually believes that this administration can make a better hire than who we currently have? Coaching hires put us in this situation. For now, IMO, less is more as far as "administrative decisions" are concerned.
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In complete truth, my arguments that may seem to be anti-Jones are really anti-lowering the standard. I am not yet convinced he's a bad hire... or a good one. I want to see the real proof... WINS. That said, the rosters that were left after Kiffin and Dooley had a lot to do with which coaches were willing to risk their careers on UT. Muschamp before anyone knew how bad he was as an HC was one of the hottest HC prospects out there. He passed on UT knowing an "easier" offer would come along. Dooley thought he could skip a couple of steps in his progression and effectively ended his career.

Jones took a chance and probably got some commitments on "patience" from the AD. But continued losing will wear out patience... and especially as "reasons" start to sound a whole lot more like excuses. You can't just keep posting losing seasons and expect "patience" regardless of the reasons.

In the VERY worst case, Jones is not able to turn the corner by the end of '15. If that happens, he will have earned every dime he was paid and the buy out by leaving a far more talented roster than he inherited.

For Jones, that's not a good deal. For UT football... it could become a great deal if that roster attracts an elite coach.
 
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