Just how bad is our defense? Almost Sunseri numbers!

#26
#26
IndianapolisVol said:
Rushed into a complete defensive scheme overhaul without the talent or the depth to do so. Stuck with it for the entire season. Refused to make any adjustments.

He wanted to run a 3-4 with 285lb defensive linemen and undersized, underclassmen linebackers. Our defense was generally slow and undersized in every sense of the description.

Sunseri was too bull-headed to ever admit fault or make any in-game adjustments. Complete disaster.
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Hmmm... Sorta like Butch handled the offense and o-line in his first season.
 
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#27
#27
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Shoop has stated, in kinder words, that he is used to coaching smarter players who can quickly absorb concepts, read offenses and self-adjust at the los based on multiple play calls from the sideline or huddle. We should not have hired a VU/PSU coach. We should probably be looking at DCs from state schools in this part of the country.
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That is a pitiful excuse. VU and PSU football players are no smarter than our players. All schools take football players that do not match the "academic standing" of the school in general, And PSU is in the same league as UTK.
 
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#28
#28
keckjm said:
Another complaint I see on this board is our secondary under Shoop. Yes, he's a secondary coach, but we have had secondary issues since Butch arrived, especially with the deep ball. Until Shoop implements his defense, DB techniques will not be changed. Expect an overhaul by next year IMO.
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Agree
 
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#29
#29
If Shoop was able to bring his guys instead of some of the ones we have i.e. Willie (UGA fans laughed when we hired this guy).

maybe they would be better.
 
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#30
#30
aredfox28 said:
Well the Florida game, was that cause we just got our offense going and kept the ball outta floridas hands? The va tech game, was that because they kept putting the ball on the ground? I don't know, but I seen a lot of bad defense more than good. And I want him to succeed. I'm just asking.. I wasn't too impressed with This 4-2-5 he ran. And didn't like seeing vareen or Barnett lined up covering receivers..
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The issue with our defense is deep (big yardage) plays, which correlates with very bad DB play/lack of pressure (which goes back to Shoop not installing his more aggressive defense that probably would favor guys like Taylor, Bituli, JP, and Barnett more). However, VT offense is hard to stop, and they have accumulated over 5,400 yards of total offense. They average 35 a game and we held them to 24 points. We held FL to 7 points in the second half, and we held UGA to 7 points all second half until we gave up a 50+ yarder with 10 seconds left (again, big plays kill us).

As of late, our inability to stop the run is directly correlated with losing our 3 best DT, and that's just the truth of the matter (not an excuse). The inability to stop the run sets up play-action, and play-action leads to deep throws and huge gains (which we are susceptible too). That's just where we are at. It will not get better until the offseason, and that's banking on Butch letting Shoop run the show and hire his guys.
 
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#31
#31
keckjm said:
Pretty simple. Butch brings in Shoop, and says,"Shoop, I got money, your family lives in TN, and PSU looks like dumpster fire right now. Only issue is, I want you to work with my guys and I want you to work off the previous language of our last DC". Shoop says cool, but he probably wasn't expecting to lose all his DTs, best LB, and have secondary injuries all year. So, in close, Butch's micromanaging and injuries lead to Shoop being handcuffed. He even admitted a few weeks ago that this defense is oversimplified due to language barriers, etc. There also seams to be some disconnect between Shoop's defense schemes and our coaches coaching it. Players are constantly out of position, and Shoop's defenses don't look like our current defense. I think Butch handicapped Shoop in hopes of not creating a complete 180 flip of the defensive scheme in year 4...worked out well.
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Creative fiction. :birgits_giggle:
 
#32
#32
keckjm said:
Pretty simple. Butch brings in Shoop, and says,"Shoop, I got money, your family lives in TN, and PSU looks like dumpster fire right now. Only issue is, I want you to work with my guys and I want you to work off the previous language of our last DC". Shoop says cool, but he probably wasn't expecting to lose all his DTs, best LB, and have secondary injuries all year. So, in close, Butch's micromanaging and injuries lead to Shoop being handcuffed. He even admitted a few weeks ago that this defense is oversimplified due to language barriers, etc. There also seams to be some disconnect between Shoop's defense schemes and our coaches coaching it. Players are constantly out of position, and Shoop's defenses don't look like our current defense. I think Butch handicapped Shoop in hopes of not creating a complete 180 flip of the defensive scheme in year 4...worked out well.
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Very good. A+
 
#33
#33
keckjm said:
How about him winning us the FL game? We gave up 10 points in the second half of VT game, 7 of which came when the game was over with in 4th quarter. Dude makes adjustments. I also just told you this scheme isn't even his fully. He even admitted to it in an interview not 4 weeks ago.
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Stop playing. They gave us those turnovers
 
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#34
#34
Some of you guys complain to complain. VT scored 30+ on just about every team they played this year, but you bash Shoop because we got turnovers. Here's a news flash for you guys, do you really think a guy who posted the number 2 defense in terms of total defense in the country in 2014 suddenly forgot how to coach? On college football stats, in terms of total defense, Shoop's defenses have ranked:

2011 Vandy: 18th we were 27th
2012 Vandy: 19th we were 110
2013 Vandy: 23rd we were 84th
2014 Penn. St: 2nd we were 37th
2015 Penn St: 14th we were 36th
2016 Vols: 109 Penn St 20 with shoop's main man being D-coord now (Brent Pry). Shoop also left behind Sean Spencer who's a boss DL coach, and who, like Pry, he's worked with for over 5 years. You do the math. He needs his own staff, guys who clearly know what they are doing because they are still getting it done without Shoop now. You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. You have to have great assistant coaching. Shoop's right hand men learned from one of the best, and now Penn. St is a top 10 team. Shoop set that in motion. The man is not some scrub. We need to let him do his thing with his guys because it's pretty clear the scheme and message isn't getting through to our players with the defensive staff at hand.
 
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#36
#36
keckjm said:
Some of you guys complain to complain. VT scored 30+ on just about every team they played this year, but you bash Shoop because we got turnovers. Here's a news flash for you guys, do you really think a guy who posted the number 2 defense in terms of total defense in the country in 2014 suddenly forgot how to coach? On college football stats, in terms of total defense, Shoop's defenses have ranked:

2011 Vandy: 18th we were 27th
2012 Vandy: 19th we were 110
2013 Vandy: 23rd we were 84th
2014 Penn. St: 2nd we were 37th
2015 Penn St: 14th we were 36th
2016 Vols: 109 Penn St 20 with shoop's main man being D-coord now (Brent Pry). Shoop also left behind Sean Spencer who's a boss DL coach, and who, like Pry, he's worked with for over 5 years. You do the math. He needs his own staff, guys who clearly know what they are doing because they are still getting it done without Shoop now. You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. You have to have great assistant coaching. Shoop's right hand men learned from one of the best, and now Penn. St is a top 10 team. Shoop set that in motion. The man is not some scrub. We need to let him do his thing with his guys because it's pretty clear the scheme and message isn't getting through to our players with the defensive staff at hand.
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THIS-All day every day.
 
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#38
#38
keckjm said:
Some of you guys complain to complain. VT scored 30+ on just about every team they played this year, but you bash Shoop because we got turnovers. Here's a news flash for you guys, do you really think a guy who posted the number 2 defense in terms of total defense in the country in 2014 suddenly forgot how to coach? On college football stats, in terms of total defense, Shoop's defenses have ranked:

2011 Vandy: 18th we were 27th
2012 Vandy: 19th we were 110
2013 Vandy: 23rd we were 84th
2014 Penn. St: 2nd we were 37th
2015 Penn St: 14th we were 36th
2016 Vols: 109 Penn St 20 with shoop's main man being D-coord now (Brent Pry). Shoop also left behind Sean Spencer who's a boss DL coach, and who, like Pry, he's worked with for over 5 years. You do the math. He needs his own staff, guys who clearly know what they are doing because they are still getting it done without Shoop now. You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. You have to have great assistant coaching. Shoop's right hand men learned from one of the best, and now Penn. St is a top 10 team. Shoop set that in motion. The man is not some scrub. We need to let him do his thing with his guys because it's pretty clear the scheme and message isn't getting through to our players with the defensive staff at hand.
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If all this is true then we might as well let Shoop go somewhere else where he can be used effectively. I highly doubt Butch is going to let Shoop get the guys he wants. I havent heard anything about any defensive coaching changes.
 
#39
#39
BigOrangeTrain said:
If all this is true then we might as well let Shoop go somewhere else where he can be used effectively. I highly doubt Butch is going to let Shoop get the guys he wants. I havent heard anything about any defensive coaching changes.
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Issue now is, those guys listed above aren't coming here. We probably could have pulled them when we got Shoop, but now there's probably no chance any Penn. St. coach leaves for UT. Butch has us in a real tight spot. It'll cost us a small fortune to obtain new defensive coaches that Shoop wants because everyone with a brain knows Butch is in massive trouble if something doesn't change. I'm just not sure we can get this turned around with Butch at the helm. Like I said, it'll cost us, and you are probably right, Shoop probably won't get to pick his whole staff, probably just at new DB coach.

In terms of stats, those numbers are the real deal. Check the college football stats site and you can view just about anything you want.
 
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#40
#40
revjayp said:
I was so blinded by my hatred of Dooley I didn't pay attention to Sunseri's "system". What made him so bad? Was it decision making? Personnel? Scheme? I don't recall.
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Well I think it's like anything else...you know what i'm saying? The fundamentals and techniques of winning football, you know what i'm saying?
 
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#41
#41
Kelley_VFL said:
I could not agree more with keckjm! Shoop WILL have his coaches next year.
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So guys who all stand to get raises for being in their conference championship game and being on the cusp of making the cfb playoff re going to come to a program where the hfc is on the hotseat and a new AD is on the way? Riiiight.
 
#42
#42
keckjm said:
Some of you guys complain to complain. VT scored 30+ on just about every team they played this year, but you bash Shoop because we got turnovers. Here's a news flash for you guys, do you really think a guy who posted the number 2 defense in terms of total defense in the country in 2014 suddenly forgot how to coach? On college football stats, in terms of total defense, Shoop's defenses have ranked:

2011 Vandy: 18th we were 27th
2012 Vandy: 19th we were 110
2013 Vandy: 23rd we were 84th
2014 Penn. St: 2nd we were 37th
2015 Penn St: 14th we were 36th
2016 Vols: 109 Penn St 20 with shoop's main man being D-coord now (Brent Pry). Shoop also left behind Sean Spencer who's a boss DL coach, and who, like Pry, he's worked with for over 5 years. You do the math. He needs his own staff, guys who clearly know what they are doing because they are still getting it done without Shoop now. You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. You have to have great assistant coaching. Shoop's right hand men learned from one of the best, and now Penn. St is a top 10 team. Shoop set that in motion. The man is not some scrub. We need to let him do his thing with his guys because it's pretty clear the scheme and message isn't getting through to our players with the defensive staff at hand.
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My take on this - we should have hired the assistants and left Shoop at PSU. They have been successful without him but he has not been successful without them.
 
#43
#43
keckjm said:
Issue now is, those guys listed above aren't coming here. We probably could have pulled them when we got Shoop, but now there's probably no chance any Penn. St. coach leaves for UT. Butch has us in a real tight spot. It'll cost us a small fortune to obtain new defensive coaches that Shoop wants because everyone with a brain knows Butch is in massive trouble if something doesn't change. I'm just not sure we can get this turned around with Butch at the helm. Like I said, it'll cost us, and you are probably right, Shoop probably won't get to pick his whole staff, probably just at new DB coach.

In terms of stats, those numbers are the real deal. Check the college football stats site and you can view just about anything you want.
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Well said.
 
#44
#44
VolunteerHillbilly said:
So guys who all stand to get raises for being in their conference championship game and being on the cusp of making the cfb playoff re going to come to a program where the hfc is on the hotseat and a new AD is on the way? Riiiight.
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Of course. The college football world revolves around Knoxville. Didn't you know that?
 
#46
#46
Kelley_VFL said:
He actually had more of an excuse than shoop. He changed the defensive system from a 4-3 to a 3-4. We didn't have the NT or LB's for that system on the roster. So basically entire defensive line/LB's was out of position and under sized. It was BAD! It will probably go down as one of the worst coaching decisions UT has ever done. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
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I sometimes wonder if a bunch of bammer boosters didn't pay him to **** up on purpose. I am semi serious!

Our talent level under Shoop is probably just as bad or worse though, with all the injuries. :banghead2:
 
#47
#47
volfan102455 said:
My take on this - we should have hired the assistants and left Shoop at PSU. They have been successful without him but he has not been successful without them.
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Difference is, Shoop put the system in place and everyone just filled in. Penn. St replaced him with Tim Banks who's a S coach, and who was Butch's defensive coordinator at Central Michigan and co-defensive coordinator at Cincy (2010-11). Tim banks is an average coach at best, and stats show that. Again, on cfbstats, Shoop's defense had 9th best passing defense in 2014 and the 8th in 2015. They are ranked 30th this year. Shoop coached S at PSU. Again, he knows what he's doing, but he needs his people, not Butch's.
 
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#49
#49
keckjm said:
Difference is, Shoop put the system in place and everyone just filled in. Penn. St replaced him with Tim Banks who's a S coach, and who was Butch's defensive coordinator at Central Michigan and co-defensive coordinator at Cincy (2010-11). Tim banks is an average coach at best, and stats show that. Again, on cfbstats, Shoop's defense had 9th best passing defense in 2014 and the 8th in 2015. They are ranked 30th this year. Shoop coached S at PSU. Again, he knows what he's doing, but he needs his people, not Butch's.
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Well, all of that is great, but being a REAL fan, I think it's better if we just ignore some pretty glaring things like all of the injuries and Shoop having to simplify the defense and fly off the handle and fire him.
 
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