Judge rules current athletes can join suit against NCAA

[DeerPark12]

Emancipating the slaves was a "sippery slope" too, and would ruin the economy...the Confederates argued. Them slaves get paid...room and board, clothing. That stuff ain't free. :loco:

You keep using the slavery example, which is completely wrong. Nobody makes these kids play college sports. They are more than welcome to get a job and pay for school like any other student. They don't have to go to school at all. They choose to play college football.

 

[DeerPark12]

This is an interesting take DP. The NCAA just lightened their load, didn't they? The biggest schools are probably studying how many more people they can hire to contact prospective student athletes on a 24 hour, 365 day per year basis. The million dollar coaches won't be spending more time, they'll hire folks...which means more people will be making money, quite literally, off of the backs of student athletes.

Hart axed a few jobs to save money and now he'll have to hire new folks to keep up with all the folks Bama and Florida will hire.

As for the NCAA and money...Emmert makes 1.6 million bucks per year and he oversees 400 employees. He made half of that as president of a university where he led 30,000 employees. It's ridiculuos.

Money and March Madness - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS

I understand that there are many well-paid people at the schools and at the NCAA. But most all of them exist to serve the student-athletes. These organizations aren't stockpiling money to spend on golden streets, they reinvest the vast majority of it into services that directly impact the student-athletes.

If you take a large portion of that money away and give it directly to the athletes, the support system that currently exists for them will be gone. And some would argue that's fine. But it would also eliminate the money that pays to sustain the other sports. Again, some would argue that's just the way it is. But the economic model of college sports is built on TV money from football, and to a much lesser extent men's basketball.

I personally don't wish to see college sports end as they exist to distribute revenue in a shortsighted effort to make things good to a small group of athletes. But that's just one guy's opinion. Athletes come to school voluntarily, knowing what the finances of the arrangement are. Nobody forces them to do so.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

You keep using the slavery example, which is completely wrong. Nobody makes these kids play college sports. They are more than welcome to get a job and pay for school like any other student. They don't have to go to school at all. They choose to play college football.

Trying to leverage the fact that these kids have to go through schools to get to the league, yet trying to make millions off of them, is a modern day form of indentured servitude. The NCAA is hiding behind the term "Amateur" while receiving massive "Commercial" gain. They are college athletics' version of the plantation owner. Plain and simple.

Look a J. Clowney, for example....he could easily have gone straight to the league right out of HS. Even now, he can't legally play in the league until after next next year. He would be a consensus No. 1 pick in this year's draft. So, :drive2: ....there went your "no one is forcing them to..." argument.

What's your next excuse, hoss?

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Huh, what are you talking about :lolabove:

Let's say your kid is selected to play a critical role in a million dollar Super Bowl ad. Should they "get paid" even though they haven't gotten out of grade school yet? I mean, they ARE just amateurs, right?

How would you feel about that, as the parent? What if instead, it was for a non-profit? It's all relative to what is being made, right? So, if the company wanting you use your cute kid to sell diapers, is making millions why should you settle for a few boxes of free diapers and paid accommodations during the shoot?

 

[DeerPark12]

Trying to leverage the fact that these kids have to go through schools to get to the league, yet trying to make millions off of them, is a modern day form of indentured servitude. The NCAA is hiding behind the term "Amateur" while receiving massive "Commercial" gain. They are college athletics' version of the plantation owner. Plain and simple.

Look a J. Clowney, for example....he could easily have gone straight to the league right out of HS. Even now, he can't legally play in the league until after next next year. He would be a consensus No. 1 pick in this year's draft. So, :drive2: ....there went your "no one is forcing them to..." argument.

What's your next excuse, hoss?

Two things here. 1. The NFL doesn't say you have to play in college to be drafted.

2. The three years removed from high school rule is the NFL's, not the NCAA's.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Two things here. 1. The NFL doesn't say you have to play in college to be drafted.

2. The three years removed from high school rule is the NFL's, not the NCAA's.

Two things here. One of your statements is contradicting the other. One says the NFL doesn't make them. Then your very next one says that indeed they do. Which is it, Capt. Brainiac?

Doesn't matter who dictates it. The effect is all the same...THEY HAVE TO!!! You just said they aren't being forced to...when in fact they are. Doing a lot of backpedaling here, mr. expert in all things college athletics. Might as well get out while the getting is good.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Wow, comparing this to slavery is a bit of a stretch. IMO

No...it's not, actually. It's very relevant...cause many of the same arguments are being made to support making huge profits off their backs....while they don't have a pot to piss in, apart from the scholarships (which is the same as trying to argue that room and board was proper compensation to slaves). Before it became a billion dollar industry, scholarships were a decent form of compensation. Now, trying to make the same argument falls flat on it's face.

 

[DeerPark12]

Doesn't matter who dictates it. The effect is all the same...THEY HAVE TO!!! You just said they aren't being forced to...when in fact they are. Doing a lot of backpedaling here, mr. expert in all things college athletics. Might as well get out while the getting is good.

I'm not doing any backpedaling.

Again, they don't have to do anything. Just like some high school basketball players have gone overseas for a year to satisfy the NBA's one-year rule, there's nothing that stops top high school players from playing in the CFL, Arena Football, or any of the other semi-pro leagues around the country.

 

[DeerPark12]

No...it's not, actually. It's very relevant...cause many of the same arguments are being made to support making huge profits off their backs....while they don't have a pot to piss in, apart from the scholarships (which is the same as trying to argue that room and board was proper compensation to slaves). Before it became a billion dollar industry, scholarships were a decent form of compensation. Now, trying to make the same argument falls flat on it's face.

Once again you ignore the fact that the vast majority of those "profits" are invested back into facilities, equipment, trainers, coaches and staff that directly benefit the student-athletes you claim are "slaves."

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I'm not doing any backpedaling.

Again, they don't have to do anything. Just like some high school basketball players have gone overseas for a year to satisfy the NBA's one-year rule, there's nothing that stops top high school players from playing in the CFL, Arena Football, or any of the other semi-pro leagues around the country.

Oh, so now they HAVE to go overseas, eh? :loco: Who is FORCING them to do that? Sounds an awful lot like backpedaling to me. Plus, the NFL's rules regarding college players is merely at the request for help by the NCAA. To prevent a mass exodus of talented players from leaving their plantation...too early.

Keep talking....digging yourself a deeper and deeper whole in this discussion.

 

[DeerPark12]

Oh, so now they HAVE to go overseas, eh? :loco: Who is FORCING them to do that? Sounds an awful lot like backpedaling to me. Plus, the NFL's rules regarding college players is merely at the request for help by the NCAA. To prevent a mass exodus of talented players from leaving their plantation...too early.

Keep talking....digging yourself a deeper and deeper whole in this discussion.

The NFL is the one with the three-year rule. I fail to see how that's the NCAA's problem. Of you (or they) don't like it, they can take it up with the NFL. Maurice Clarrett did that and the courts ruled that the NFL had the right to enforce their rule.

They don't have to do anything. If they want to play college football, they play within the rules. If they want to make money playing football, there are avenues to do that until the are eligible for the NFL.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Once again you ignore the fact that the vast majority of those "profits" are invested back into facilities, equipment, trainers, coaches and staff that directly benefit the student-athletes you claim are "slaves."

Once again....it's wouldn't matter to you what a company does with the millions they make, if your kid is used in one of their superbowl ad's, would it?

"Oh, but we give a portion of our proceeds to kids charity..." Doesn't keep you from wanting to be properly compensated, does it? Why then should someone else's kid have to forfeit what they are earning, to help another?

You are trying to use the complications that would result, rather than one fixing the wrong. There is something inherently wrong with an institution making billions off our kids, and trying to justify why they don't deserved part of those earnings.

If we want to be entertained by football athletes in the NFL...we have to pay for it, and they deserve to reap their portion of it. It's no different in College Football. If a college gets 40mill per year in ticket sales/TV/merchandise and other revenues, why should the athlete everyone pays to watch, not get a certain percentage of what is....wait for it...wait for it......EARNED.

 

[DeerPark12]

You are trying to use the complications that would result, rather than one fixing the wrong. There is something inherently wrong with an institution making billions off our kids, and trying to justify why they don't deserved part of those earnings.

"The complications that would result." Like the elimination of all college sports other than what will evolve to minor league professional football.

That's not a minor footnote to the discussion, that's the loss of scholarships for hundreds of thousands of student-athletes in dozens of sports at schools across the country.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

The NFL is the one with the three-year rule. I fail to see how that's the NCAA's problem. Of you (or they) don't like it, they can take it up with the NFL. Maurice Clarrett did that and the courts ruled that the NFL had the right to enforce their rule.

They don't have to do anything. If they want to play college football, they play within the rules. If they want to make money playing football, there are avenues to do that until the are eligible for the NFL.

It does not matter WHO makes the rule. You said the athletes are not FORCED to go through the college ranks to get to the league. That is just flat out false! Period. They are.

 

[DeerPark12]

It does not matter WHO makes the rule. You said the athletes are not FORCED to go through the college ranks to get to the league. That is just flat out false! Period. They are.

No, they are not. No one forces them to play college football. No one.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

"The complications that would result." Like the elimination of all college sports other than what will evolve to minor league professional football.

That's not a minor footnote to the discussion, that's the loss of scholarships for hundreds of thousands of student-athletes in dozens of sports at schools across the country.

Who said that other sports will die out if they don't have someone else footing the bill for their program? They existed before TV contracts and big ticket sales...so :drive2: there goes another one of your fallacious arguments.

Just who says that Tennis has offer scholarships? Or Track? Or Volleyball? They can't exist without them? Kids will play their sports regardless.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

No, they are not. No one forces them to play college football. No one.

Yes....they are. Your silly attempts to run around the reality of the matter doesn't change a damn thing. I just gave you a perfect example. Clowney IS FORCED....to remain in college one more year. Whether by the NCAA's rules, or by the NFL.

It's just pure stupidity on your part to say otherwise. It's like trying to say no one is forcing doctors to have to go through medical school. Pure dumba$$ery. :loco:

 

[DeerPark12]

Who said that other sports will die out if they don't have someone else footing the bill for their program? They existed before TV contracts and big ticket sales...so :drive2: there goes another one of your fallacious arguments.

Just who says that Tennis has offer scholarships? Or Track? Or Volleyball? They can't exist without them? Kids will play their sports regardless.

Most of those actually sports did not exist in their current form in college until the big dollars from TV contracts allowed schools to fully support them.

Kids may play the sports, but what about the kids that use those athletic scholarships to have careers outside of athletics?

The whole basis of your argument is a small group of football players that end up in the NFL. About 5% of athletes that are members of D1 college football teams end up playing college football.

So you think we should change the whole system of college athletics because 5% of the athletes in one sport are wronged because they "have" to stay some place for three years before they can make millions? And I'm the one that doesn't make any sense?

 

[DeerPark12]

Yes....they are. Your silly attempts to run around the reality of the matter doesn't change a damn thing. I just gave you a perfect example. Clowney IS FORCED....to remain in college one more year. Whether by the NCAA's rules, or by the NFL.

It's just pure stupidity on your part to say otherwise. It's like trying to say no one is forcing doctors to have to go through medical school. Pure dumba$$ery. :loco:

He's not forced to stay in school. He could leave school and spend a year training for next year's draft. There have been several high-level pro prospects that have seriously considered doing that, it's only a matter of time before one does.

Mike Williams left USC after his sophomore year in the wake of the initial Maurice Clarrett decision and spent a year away from football before still being a high NFL Draft Pick.

 

[mtowntim]

Bryce Brown

 

[Dr.Vol]

Would the option of minor leagues solve the issue?

If players value a free education at a top university (along with free housing, meals, tutoring, and all the other things athletes currently receive), then go to college. If they do not value any of that and only care about going pro, then they can go pro in the minors, then get picked up by an NFL team.

What is wrong with allowing them this option? If they are 18 just, let them go pro.

Edit: I'm aware of the 3-year rule. What I'm saying is why not allow them the choice to decide whether they want to remain an amateur or go pro after high school.

 

[DeerPark12]

Would the option of minor leagues solve the issue?

If players value a free education at a top university (along with free housing, meals, tutoring, and all the other things athletes currently receive), then go to college. If they do not value any of that and only care about going pro, then they can go pro in the minors, then get picked up by an NFL team.

What is wrong with allowing them this option? If they are 18 just, let them go pro.

Sure, and it's been proposed, but no one has put together the $$$ to make it happen. The UFL was looked at as a possibility for this, they had no age limit. Of course, the UFL failed because they didn't have a good TV deal and couldn't make payroll.

I personally think the NFL should eliminate their rule. It would take care of itself, because NFL GMs aren't going to draft players that aren't ready to play at that level.

 

[whobethis16]

Yes....they are. Your silly attempts to run around the reality of the matter doesn't change a damn thing. I just gave you a perfect example. Clowney IS FORCED....to remain in college one more year. Whether by the NCAA's rules, or by the NFL.

It's just pure stupidity on your part to say otherwise. It's like trying to say no one is forcing doctors to have to go through medical school. Pure dumba$$ery. :loco:

Who says that Clowney HAS to play in the NCAA? As it has been said, what is stopping him from playing in the arena league or just training to fulfill the 3rd year obligation? NOTHING. So therefore, it is his CHOICE to play NCAA football, when there are other alternatives out there for him. If you don't like the NCAA/NFL rules, pursue a different career choice. End of discussion. NO ONE is forcing these kids to do that.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Who says that Clowney HAS to play in the NCAA? As it has been said, what is stopping him from playing in the arena league or just training to fulfill the 3rd year obligation? NOTHING. So therefore, it is his CHOICE to play NCAA football, when there are other alternatives out there for him. If you don't like the NCAA/NFL rules, pursue a different career choice. End of discussion. NO ONE is forcing these kids to do that.

That's just stupid talking. It's like saying if a student wants to bypass medical school they can get some bogus license in a 3rd world country and come back to the states to practice. That's not how it works and you two clowns know that.

 

[whobethis16]

That's just stupid talking. It's like saying if a student wants to bypass medical school they can get some bogus license in a 3rd world country and come back to the states to practice. That's not how it works and you two clowns know that.

However, those that go to medical school and CHOOSE to become doctors follow the damn rules/procedure to become one. Thank you for proving our point. If you want to do something, you follow the rules to make it happen.