Josh Dobbs - NFL Draft thread (merged)

#226
#226
armchair said:
I don't agree that Dobbs' first instinct is to run--that is wrong. I saw him stand in the pocket and make a ton of throws under pressure last year. I think he's pretty good about knowing when to stand in the pocket and when to move.
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I've seen him miss a lot of throws also.
 
#227
#227
armchair said:
I don't agree that Dobbs' first instinct is to run--that is wrong. I saw him stand in the pocket and make a ton of throws under pressure last year. I think he's pretty good about knowing when to stand in the pocket and when to move.
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actually, i agree. you can watch almost any game and point out the plays that were called pass plays, that he ran on. he'd stand there, looking..no one open, pocket breaks down, and he runs or gets sacked. happened a lot more than most realize.
 
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#228
#228
Burger said:
The Zone blocking scheme was made specifically for the 3-4 scheme. You can either have your tackle/TE turn him outside which would make a hole between the tackle and the TE. That requires something called the shotput technique, where you try to violently hit the defender in the outer area of the chest to steer him outside. It's very often that the weakside linebacker would either be chipped or let go. What you have to be very careful of with Gibbs technique is holding. If you miss the outside of the arm pit to gain control, the linebacker can either spin to the inside, or there could be a flagrant hold.

In the zone scheme, there are two options for a RB as you know, to either take the primary hole which depends on the play call, or if that isn't open they could take the cut back lane. The job of the opposite linebacker is to keep contain of the cut back lane. That's what Jacques Smith was always infamous of doing is not keeping contain.

Now, if we are going outside zone, you would engage with the double team with the blocker closer to the gap does a hook block. The TE in this example would take a step outside to gain leverage to turn the defender inside. If the TE manages to do that, there would be no need for the cutback as there will be a nice gap behind the TE.
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Gottcha... I have been studying it the last couple days... I will be going probably exclusively to Zone this season so I will have to get some cut ups of Denver... Gibbs has a YouTube video of "New Developements" that talk about the club technique (just watching it)... I am not sure if you heard of it or not so here it is...

While taking the outside hand and helmet and getting them across the face of the defender with the hand placement being in the frame next to the shoulder... the club technique will tell the linemen to take the inside hand in his first step (so your essentially making three points of contact at once) to make a fist and bring it in to hit the ribs of the defender which turns into what is called the "grab hand" and you hold clothe inside the frame to move him laterally outside...

This technique is used by an uncovered linemen going to take over a double team or verse a man on man blocking by the guard or tackle playside...
 
#229
#229
Caleb59seal said:
Gottcha... I have been studying it the last couple days... I will be going probably exclusively to Zone this season so I will have to get some cut ups of Denver... Gibbs has a YouTube video of "New Developements" that talk about the club technique (just watching it)... I am not sure if you heard of it or not so here it is...

While taking the outside hand and helmet and getting them across the face of the defender with the hand placement being in the frame next to the shoulder... the club technique will tell the linemen to take the inside hand in his first step (so your essentially making three points of contact at once) to make a fist and bring it in to hit the ribs of the defender which turns into what is called the "grab hand" and you hold clothe inside the frame to move him laterally outside...

This technique is used by an uncovered linemen going to take over a double team or verse a man on man blocking by the guard or tackle playside...
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If the lineman isn't careful, that could end up being a 15 yard penalty. That would be easier to do with Zone because it can help get you to the next level quicker. That's what it's all about is how quickly the uncovered lineman can go get a linebacker. On man blocking, a good defensive line can make your guy whiff if they have good hand technique. If I'm a defensive tackle and I see that your guy is committing to my inside shoulder, I'm going to dip in the other direction and easily shed him.
 
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#230
#230
jakez4ut said:
actually, i agree. you can watch almost any game and point out the plays that were called pass plays, that he ran on. he'd stand there, looking..no one open, pocket breaks down, and he runs or gets sacked. happened a lot more than most realize.
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That's what I mean by instincts. He's a brilliant guy, but he's not as quick as he has to be mentally for the NFL. That's what happened against South Carolina. They knew how to contain him, so he ended up throwing bad passes because his running lanes were blocked.
 
#231
#231
Burger said:
Ok, so we're talking about a stretch play or toss. What your describing is a hook block. The objective of the TE is to turn the defensive end inside. The only issue I can see is if the Dlineman dodges the shoulder move and gets into the backfield quickly. That's actually an old fashioned cheap shot, so teach your guys how to get away with it.
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Yea it would be called "holding if the hands get extended outside the frame but if we keep our hands in and strong then we should be fine.... and the D Linemen should be taken care of by the backside club cause as soon as he takes his first step that club is coming from the inside... I just have to coach it to where we don't turn our shoulders because with Outside Zone you don't want to make the ready cloudy for the running back with your butt in the hole the RB is reading to get into....
 
#232
#232
Burger said:
That's what I mean by instincts. He's a brilliant guy, but he's not as quick as he has to be mentally for the NFL. That's what happened against South Carolina. They knew how to contain him, so he ended up throwing bad passes because his running lanes were blocked.
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Where did you play linemen at?
 
#233
#233
Caleb59seal said:
Yea it would be called "holding if the hands get extended outside the frame but if we keep our hands in and strong then we should be fine.... and the D Linemen should be taken care of by the backside club cause as soon as he takes his first step that club is coming from the inside... I just have to coach it to where we don't turn our shoulders because with Outside Zone you don't want to make the ready cloudy for the running back with your butt in the hole the RB is reading to get into....
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I edited my post because I misread it the first time. You also don't want to show the defensive lineman what you're doing. You can do that by taking a more lateral step to be able to keep your shoulders straight for a longer time. The con with that is it can take a half second longer. A good rip move can destroy that block, which is why you have to mask it as best as you can.
 
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#235
#235
stevenrich2003 said:
I know there are ton of Dobbs haters on this site but I am not one of them. I honestly think he could play in the league if he cleaned up this throwing. He for sure is athletic enough, smart enough, and has the leadership abilities to do it.
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Just because someone doesn't rate Dobbs as a top 5 guy doesn't mean he's being hated.

Not anointing someone superstar status isn't a measure of hate. Never has been nor never will be. Unfortunately, in the world we live in now, everything has to be an absolute extreme.

That being said, I like Dobbs but he's nowhere near one of the top QBs coming out this year
 
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#237
#237
Old Geezer said:
Dobbs always had horrendous accuracy problems. Dobbs is a really good guy who is one hell of a runner, but not a QB. Peterman was amazingly accurate, but never given a chance. Many on Volnation were ruthless towards Peterman. That's why there is so much silence knowing he was very successful after leaving UT. We had no offensive line, so Butch inserted a running QB to run for his life rather than establish a passing attack. Understandable, but the passing attack was substandard.
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Peterman's arm strength is barely average. His accuracy/anticipation is top notch
 
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#239
#239
Burger said:
I edited my post because I misread it the first time. You also don't want to show the defensive lineman what you're doing. You can do that by taking a more lateral step to be able to keep your shoulders straight for a longer time. The con with that is it can take a half second longer. A good rip move can destroy that block, which is why you have to mask it as best as you can.
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Yea that's what I was thinking as well... my idea is I want to attack him to the side and run him and have a call between my linemen that will tell them to
Take the guy that squeezes... but I wanna come down the line without an extended stance more parallel stance... Also I want to come with that club arm hard and make him think twice about wanting to squeeze down...

I like it as much for a mentality then a nice block.. (which it is IMO)....
 
#240
#240
Caleb59seal said:
Yea that's what I was thinking as well... my idea is I want to attack him to the side and run him and have a call between my linemen that will tell them to
Take the guy that squeezes... but I wanna come down the line without an extended stance more parallel stance... Also I want to come with that club arm hard and make him think twice about wanting to squeeze down...

I like it as much for a mentality then a nice block.. (which it is IMO)....
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Psychological factors are very real in the trenches. The most important thing is your guy cannot miss the target. Just make sure you drill leverage and hand placement.
 
#241
#241
Burger said:
That's what I mean by instincts. He's a brilliant guy, but he's not as quick as he has to be mentally for the NFL. That's what happened against South Carolina. They knew how to contain him, so he ended up throwing bad passes because his running lanes were blocked.
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i agree with that as well. i've alwasy thought his football iq was lacking, pocket awareness etc...and i know that sounds harsh given how smart he is really, but it's like book smarts vs. common sense...it sounds worse than i'm intending it to. cause it wasn't like he was bad all the time. just that when things didn't go to plan, or if he got one look, but the defense did something else, especially on blitzs, he didn't always pick those things up and react accordingly. of course there were times he did. in the FL game last year, he was as good against the blitz as he maybe ever was. against SC, not so much.
 
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#242
#242
jakez4ut said:
i agree with that as well. i've alwasy thought his football iq was lacking, pocket awareness etc...and i know that sounds harsh given how smart he is really, but it's like book smarts vs. common sense...it sounds worse than i'm intending it to. cause it wasn't like he was bad all the time. just that when things didn't go to plan, or if he got one look, but the defense did something else, especially on blitzs, he didn't always pick those things up and react accordingly. of course there were times he did. in the FL game last year, he was as good against the blitz as he maybe ever was. against SC, not so much.
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Dobbs is purely book smart. Those things are the difference between Dobbs and players like Wilson and Prescott. I hope his instincts get better, but you either have them or don't.
 
#243
#243
Burger said:
Psychological factors are very real in the trenches. The most important thing is your guy cannot miss the target. Just make sure you drill leverage and hand placement.
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Oh I plan to... have you heard of Jim McNally technique with centrical force... taking your hands from under (think of an uppercut) the idea is to redirect your force upward so you lose leverage and get you standing tall... and the footwork is short chop steps... probably 6-9" steps toward your target and on Zone your taking a short settle step lose ground on 2nd and third with your body weight over your toes and leveraging yourself up (with the hand motion) creating a sitting stance... it's pretty interesting stuff...
 
#244
#244
Burger said:
Dobbs is purely book smart. Those things are the difference between Dobbs and players like Wilson and Prescott. I hope his instincts get better, but you either have them or don't.
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If they don't, a DE will blindside him and he won't be in the league long. He's too skinny to play the way he wants to.
 
#245
#245
Caleb59seal said:
Oh I plan to... have you heard of Jim McNally technique with centrical force... taking your hands from under (think of an uppercut) the idea is to redirect your force upward so you lose leverage and get you standing tall... and the footwork is short chop steps... probably 6-9" steps toward your target and on Zone your taking a short settle step lose ground on 2nd and third with your body weight over your toes and leveraging yourself up (with the hand motion) creating a sitting stance... it's pretty interesting stuff...
Click to expand...

For shorter quicker guys, that's one of the most common techniques. You know about going through the Shute. Every technique should be short choppy steps as it creates more acceleration. You don't want to stand completely tall as you'll lose leverage, then you could be in trouble. You want to use that technique to get the other guy to stand tall. Once they're up, driving them back is easier.

I had to use that technique a lot.

It's funny that I can watch a college game, and I can easily see what play it is and how far it's going to go just looking at the Oline.
 
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#247
#247
Burger said:
For shorter quicker guys, that's one of the most common techniques. You know about going through the Shute. Every technique should be short choppy steps as it creates more acceleration. You don't want to stand completely tall as you'll lose leverage, then you could be in trouble. You want to use that technique to get the other guy to stand tall. Once they're up, driving them back is easier.

I had to use that technique a lot.

It's funny that I can watch a college game, and I can easily see what play it is and how far it's going to go just looking at the Oline.
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What do you look for on the O line to tell where it's going? I can too but i always wanna learn more.
 
#248
#248
Caleb59seal said:
What do you look for on the O line to tell where it's going? I can too but i always wanna learn more.
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Guards. A thing they teach linebackers is how to read the guards. Speaking of guards, you should watch Zack Martin's film. He's the best player in the NFL.
 
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#250
#250
Caleb59seal said:
Ohhh ok I thought you were talking about the alignment... I can watch film and get tells from the O line...
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If you look at the guards, you can figure out what kind of blocking scheme will be utilized. I love watching a great guard do his thing. If guards get push, it's a good run. Zack Martin is the best I've seen in a long time, since the days of Hutchinson and Shields.

In terms of alignment, the biggest tip off is splits. Passing teams will have wider splits than running teams. The second biggest tip off is if the guard looks around in stance.
 
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