Jordan Peterson

#176
#176
marcusluvsvols said:
Not only do I think this is a valid criticism, I agree with you 100%. I have listened to JPs series on Exodus, and he has a substantial head knowledge of scripture. In the lectures and interviews etc I have listened to (lots of them, albeit not recently) he references the Bible and its parables etc sometimes, but has never claimed to be a devout Christian himself...nor given a testimony of how he came to a relationship with God/Christ. In my opinion, JP should stay in his lane and not be debating people as a representative of Christianity. Thats a chore that if anyone should undertake it publicly, they should be a Pastor and a religious scholar...not a gifted Psychology professor. JP is a clinical psychologist like my son. A leader in that field and well respected. He is not a man who has devoted his life to the Church that shepherds a congregation for a living. Nor is he a religious scholar that teaches at a Christian school or seminary. Sounds like, at least in some instances, he has gotten out of his area of expertise. I have not listened to him do that, and have no interest in it.
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Now is the time to reflect on why he would do that. On his employment, on his background, on what (or who) he actually follows and worships, etc..

Who wants the spiritual life pulled out of Christianity?
 
#177
#177
marcusluvsvols said:
Theres also a contingent of Liberals and atheists here that simply hate everything he believes, and theres nothing he could ever possibly say or do that they won't trash. I could not possibly give a damn less what they think. Liberalism is a mental disorder, and to be a Democrat in 2025 you have to be a complete moron. These are the same idiots that think women have penises and men give birth. That there are 34 genders. That boys should play girls sports. Taking shots at Jordan Peterson. Thats absolutely hilarious.
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marcusluvsvols said:
Not only do I think this is a valid criticism, I agree with you 100%.
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Writing 3200 words and bringing in 19 unrelated topics just to end up agreeing with the "shots at Jordan Peterson" is a funny bit, well done
 
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#178
#178
JP: Lying is bad.
Kid: Yeah, but what about lying to save your family from Nazis?
JP: *eyeroll*
Kid: See! Everything is relative! There is no truth!
JP: .....
Kid: Are you anti-fascist???

Yeah, that's a good-faith interlocutor if I ever saw one.
 
#179
#179
SamRebel35 said:
JP: Lying is bad.
Kid: Yeah, but what about lying to save your family from Nazis?
JP: *eyeroll*
Kid: See! Everything is relative! There is no truth!
JP: .....
Kid: Are you anti-fascist???

Yeah, that's a good-faith interlocutor if I ever saw one.
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My guy, he said the most basic definition of "believe" is circular (it's not) and then started saying "believe" means "stake your life on" (it doesn't) and then started saying he wouldn't lie to save someone's life (wtf?) rather than entertain a hypothetical. There was nothing to even argue about and he still managed to lose. Not surprised you're one of his fanboys
 
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#180
#180
NashVol11 said:
My guy, he said the most basic definition of "believe" is circular (it's not) and then started saying "believe" means "stake your life on" (it doesn't) and then started saying he wouldn't lie to save someone's life (wtf?) rather than entertain a hypothetical. There was nothing to even argue about and he still managed to lose. Not surprised you're one of his fanboys
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The conservations taking place with JP and that kid are not normal dialogue between people.
 
#183
#183
NashVol11 said:
My guy, he said the most basic definition of "believe" is circular (it's not) and then started saying "believe" means "stake your life on" (it doesn't) and then started saying he wouldn't lie to save someone's life (wtf?) rather than entertain a hypothetical. There was nothing to even argue about and he still managed to lose. Not surprised you're one of his fanboys
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I don't think JP handled that part well. He didn't want to cede territory to a bad-faith interlocutor and came off as illogical and grumpy. I thought he did pretty good for the other hour and 20 minutes or so.

But this isn't some new thing where JP mentions "staking your life on it" in reference to belief or truth. He has literally been saying this same thing for the decade or so that I've been paying attention to him. Many years ago I heard somebody ask him if he believed in God. He said he didn't know exactly how to answer that, but he lives his life as though God exists (staking his life on it rather than saying words of belief or disbelief). Coming up with some hypothetical where lying is your only option to save your family from Nazis doesn't mean that you've disproven anything about JP's actual worldview.
 
#184
#184
SamRebel35 said:
I don't think JP handled that part well. He didn't want to cede territory to a bad-faith interlocutor and came off as illogical and grumpy. I thought he did pretty good for the other hour and 20 minutes or so.

But this isn't some new thing where JP mentions "staking your life on it" in reference to belief or truth. He has literally been saying this same thing for the decade or so that I've been paying attention to him. Many years ago I heard somebody ask him if he believed in God. He said he didn't know exactly how to answer that, but he lives his life as though God exists (staking his life on it rather than saying words of belief or disbelief). Coming up with some hypothetical where lying is your only option to save your family from Nazis doesn't mean that you've disproven anything about JP's actual worldview.
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Imo… lying to Nazis is not really a hypothetical because it actually happened. Dumb hypotheticals would be like killing baby Hitler.
 
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#186
#186
SamRebel35 said:
Many years ago I heard somebody ask him if he believed in God. He said he didn't know exactly how to answer that, but he lives his life as though God exists (staking his life on it rather than saying words of belief or disbelief).
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I don't think that is really "staking his life on it." Nothing happens to his life if he's wrong
 
#189
#189
NashVol11 said:
I don't think that is really "staking his life on it." Nothing happens to his life if he's wrong
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I promise you that if you and I started arguing with people here like JP argued with those little boys, people would have no issue seeing the problem with those tactics.
 
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#190
#190
ButchPlz said:
Being willing to debate people isn't a rarity. I can turn on the TV at any time and see a bad debate- just doing it doesn't mean much. So no, I don't find it "damn impressive" that he goes into debates. My standards aren't in the toilet yet, and he's been sold as better or higher than other types of content and he's just...not.

He certainly has been much more hostile since the issues in 2019, and way less coherent and way more off on wild tangents, especially on his twitter/X account. The more I've paid attention, too, the more I don't like a lot of his older "debate" style either, like one from 2018 where he was literally sneering and jeering at the crowd. Like I said, I can turn on morons like Stephen A. Smith or any modern news personality if I want that kind of trash.
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Can you show me other folks who do debates like JP, Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk? I'd love to see a committed liberal do this and if they did, I'd watch which is what they're looking for. Bill Maher is the only liberal that I'm aware of that does something remotely like this and I watch him
 
#191
#191
Sea Ray said:
He's staking his afterlife on it which could very well be more significant
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Every single person who believes in God does this too, and what is he risking or staking? He's going to be sentenced to eternal damnation for believing in God?
 
#192
#192
ButchPlz said:
But is he? Christianity pretty definitively doesn't allow this sort of waffling (if that's the God he's after).
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It's a question for the Deity to answer. Point is he is staking his afterlife on it one way or another
 
#193
#193
Sea Ray said:
Can you show me other folks who do debates like JP, Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk? I'd love to see a committed liberal do this and if they did, I'd watch which is what they're looking for. Bill Maher is the only liberal that I'm aware of that does something remotely like this and I watch him
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Dean Withers does these all the time
 
#194
#194
Sea Ray said:
Can you show me other folks who do debates like JP, Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk? I'd love to see a committed liberal do this and if they did, I'd watch which is what they're looking for. Bill Maher is the only liberal that I'm aware of that does something remotely like this and I watch him
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As much is it pains me to say Chunk Yogurt (or whatever his name is) and the girl from TYT have been out making an effort despite themselves. You have classic ones like Hitchens (dead) and Noam Chomsky. Since you're talking debates, logic would also say someone from the "other side" debating the three you listed indicate that at least in some cases those people are making the same leap- it takes two to tango. Who are some of the people those three have debated?

If your whole political ideology is only framed on people debating, that's also a problem.
 
#195
#195
Sea Ray said:
It's a question for the Deity to answer. Point is he is staking his afterlife on it one way or another
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I just don't find his lukewarm religious tolerance to be staking much of anything on anything. It's easy to do.

EDIT: Jordan Peterson is like milk for a baby. Nutritious and gets you started. Nowhere close to deep enough to make you actually grow.
 
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#196
#196
ButchPlz said:
I just don't find his lukewarm religious tolerance to be staking much of anything on anything. It's easy to do.
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I’m not interested in arguing over the definition of “believe”. I’m really not. As JP said, it’s circular and gets us nowhere

In this particular instance I’d establish whether he considers himself a Christian. If he doesn’t say definitely “yes” then I’d ask the host “why is he here in a one on one “atheists vs Christian “ event?
 
#198
#198
Sea Ray said:
I’m not interested in arguing over the definition of “believe”. I’m really not. As JP said, it’s circular and gets us nowhere

In this particular instance I’d establish whether he considers himself a Christian. If he doesn’t say definitely “yes” then I’d ask the host “why is he here in a one on one “atheists vs Christian “ event?
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I'm not arguing over the definition of "believe". Christianity has pretty much one standard definition of what it means to "believe". Like you're getting at, Jordan Peterson very obviously isn't fit to represent it.
 
#200
#200
NashVol11 said:
Writing 3200 words and bringing in 19 unrelated topics just to end up agreeing with the "shots at Jordan Peterson" is a funny bit, well done
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4 or 5 different posters taking shots at Peterson for various different things, I agreed with 1 poster (in a quoted response to his post) who criticizes exactly 1 aspect of JP...him choosing to be an advocate for Christians. You proceed to post your snarky little comment above trying to be cute.

The fact you think all the other things I mentioned describing modern liberals and their insane, detached from reality views are totally unrelated is not surprising. You exemplify ALL OF THEM 🤣. You defend every single ridiculous position I mention in my post. All of them. Completely divorced from logic, reason, biology, etc . At some point you will realize the very basic point: when a Liberal believes that women have penises, men give birth, boys should play girls sports, etc then rational people are not going to listen anymore. See: Democrat Party. 21% approval rating.

I haven't responded to your posts in months bud. You and I apparently agree on nearly nothing and I don't waste time arguing with strangers on the internet. I have no idea why I responded this time...I have ignored you quoting my posts repeatedly for quite some time. Its probably best that we just agree that our viewpoints are irreconcilable. Thankfully we live in a country where we can believe whatever we choose without issues.
 
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