Jones Players

#1

a vol n tears

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#1
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
 
#6

ksgovols

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#6
Players are either developed or they are not. CJP has stated that every player gets basically the same number of reps. How would the Jones' players get less development than the ones CJP signed? "You guys that were already here. Close your eyes and cover your ears. This is not for you."? Please.
 
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#7

a vol n tears

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#7
Players are either developed or they are not. CJP has stated that every players gets basically the same number of reps. How would the Jones' players get less development than the ones CJP signed? "You guys that were already here. Close your eyes and cover your ears. This is not for you."? Please.
I have no opinion on whether to keep or fire Pruitt. My statement was why some say Jones couldn’t recruit or never develop. However several of his recruits are in the NFL now. If they can somehow be developed into league players, why can’t Pruitt develop them into decent college players instead of saying he needed to recruit guys that could play.
Someone else mentioned Kamara being under used. He came to Tenn because he was buried on Bama’s depth chart. Probably was not the player he is now vs when he came here. His Sr year was when he really flashed but still was only a 3rd round pick.
 
#8

a vol n tears

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#8
Kamara was on the bench a lot while he was here, if anything that should count against Butch
Kamara came here because he was buried on the Ala depth chart. People act like he was All Pro when he came to Tenn. He started playing plenty his Sr year and was drafted in the 3rd round. Maybe he did get better each year and played more. Possible????
 
#9

DaddyChad

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#9
Butch had a couple of good recruiting years but really fell off late. His best classes were a perfect storm of instate players and legacy players with us taking a slew of players. Honestly I dont have as much issue with Jones in recruiting as I do in development particularly strength and conditioning. We had a long extended peroid without a Strength and Conditioning coach; probably the single most important position coach for a program and we had a void for a long peroid. This leads to physically and mentally soft players and a soft program. Thats more the issue we're dealing with than simply talent, laziness and no accountability is a cancer for a program.
 
#10

JMSqb11

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#10
Recruiting good players and utilizing them in the way that maximizes the talent are two completely different animals. Butch got good players but he really couldn't develop them. Talent is going to show up sooner or later.
I would add that Butch tried to recruit any and all highly rated recruits first and then tried to figure a way to piece them into the roster and depth chart. While that is great, it severely limited our line depth overall.

Its great to recruit and sign 4 and 5 stars, but if you aren't trying to sign them for all positions, that becomes an issue.

I do think Butch's ability to develop and coaching style killed his last two classes.
 
#12

JonGrudensAgent

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#12
Minor point but Justin Coleman and AJ Johnson were Dooley recruits. Moseley was recruited under Jones.

Agree that these are all Pruitts players. Dont know of a coach who ever had the luxury of being able to flip an entire roster when they took a new job so Pruitt isn't alone in having to deal with guys he didnt recruit.
 
#13
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#13
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
While I like your premise, not every player that Jones recruited is Kamara and Antonio Brown to cherry pick a few names.
 
#14

05_never_again

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#14
Butch was a star collector, a recruiter, to be sure. He could do that....he just didn’t know how develop them, or scheme for them when they got here.

I believe Pruitt may be an even better recruiter. That’s about all I can say without committing heresy against Pope Jeremy.
Out of all the job duties that fall under being a head coach, recruiting was by far the one Butch was best at. But he was pretty overrated even at his best skill.

Butch was good at convincing high school players who were highly thought of by the recruiting services to commit to Tennessee. Whether he developed those guys, those guys were good fits for his offense, or used them correctly is a totally different question, and something he failed miserably at.
 
#15

IPleadInsanity

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#15
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
People seeing events occur and applying their agenda to get the needed result. Literally every coach who has taken a new job has had to contend with winning over the previous coaches players. It is always a mix of good and bad results. This should be expected with a coaching change, any coaching change. I agree the problem for Pruitt is to continue to recruit at a high level while losing football games, some fan support and revenue. Being 15th in the country means nothing if you are next to last in your conference.
 
#16

JMSqb11

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#16
Minor point but Justin Coleman and AJ Johnson were Dooley recruits. Moseley was recruited under Jones.

Agree that these are all Pruitts players. Dont know of a coach who ever had the luxury of being able to flip an entire roster when they took a new job so Pruitt isn't alone in having to deal with guys he didnt recruit.
I do think Dooley will get another head coaching gig sooner than later. Definitely no major job, but something like an AAC or small P5 job. Of course I could see him moving up the ranks for OC at bigger schools.
 
#17

bigdan

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#17
Can we please stop bringing him up? My goodness. Like it or not, he’s not the reason Tennessee is in the mess that it currently is. He also had a better showing than JP has at this point in their UT tenures. The Pruitt bootlickers will just have to deal with that for the time being. The guy made some critical mistakes, and I do believe it was time to get rid of him. But the non-stop overblown narratives about the guy, as well as the attack on his character are just tired at this point. I think he was a much better FB coach than some of you want him to be, and closer to bringing Tennessee back than some of you care to admit. But keep stating that Dobbs deserves credit for every win he accomplished, if that helps you sleep at night.
 
#18

titansvolsfaninga

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#18
I have no opinion on whether to keep or fire Pruitt. My statement was why some say Jones couldn’t recruit or never develop. However several of his recruits are in the NFL now. If they can somehow be developed into league players, why can’t Pruitt develop them into decent college players instead of saying he needed to recruit guys that could play.
Someone else mentioned Kamara being under used. He came to Tenn because he was buried on Bama’s depth chart. Probably was not the player he is now vs when he came here. His Sr year was when he really flashed but still was only a 3rd round pick.
Have you taken a look at Jones' 2016 and 2017 Recruiting Class? You may want to wander over to 247 and take a gander at it.
 
#19

HuntlandVolinColo

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#19
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
Jones had two good recruiting classes....at least the ones that escaped injury. His last two classes were a huge drop-off in talent.

There are several players that weren't fully utilized here that do very well on Sunday. Emanuel Moseley (SF) shut down OBJ last night and Justin Coleman (Lions) is regarded as one of the best NBs in NFL (highest paid too).

Those guys didn't do much but get burned regularly when playing for UT.

Hurd (SF) had a good start to the season too before getting hurt. PWilly is the best WR on the worst NFL team (Fins).

Need we mention how underutilized Kamara was at Tennessee?

I seriously doubt all these guys were just "late-bloomers!"
 
#20

LosersWithSocks

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#20
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
Butch recruited well for the most part - and he had some pretty good wins in his resume.

I just think the job was too big for him in the end.

He started out pretty strong but bungled what could have been HUGE improvement with multiple come from behind defeats against UF, Arkansas, and Oklahoma in 2015.
 
#22

XknoxvolsX

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#22
I keep reading on here about Jones players not being good enough to play SEC ball. That Pruitt needs time to get “his” players. I contend they are all his players. Today I have seen 2 posts about former Jones recruits in the NFL.
While I-will agree Jones struggled with game day coaching, he may not have developed his players enough, and his S&C program was lax, why are several of his players in the league? Many are playing and some are even starting. If they can make a roster they aren’t bad players. Surely if the NFL can turn them into league players right out of college, why can’t Pruitt turn them into serviceable players on this team?
My opinion is his doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to spend a year or two to develop Jones players. He has decided to go with his recruits win or lose this year and maybe next year. Or maybe he cannot develop players who are not top level to begin with.
Mizou and Miss St are 2 examples of losing early to develop good upperclassmen that can play and build a program that way. They depend on maturity. Pruitt seems to be building on getting high rated guys. Either could work but with the signing limit I’m not sold he can sign enough high rated players each year.
Many on here are helping find excuses or are just not thinking this through.


Many just are not thinking.
 
#24

DiderotsGhost

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#24
There are two issues here:

(1) Butch Jones did recruit a lot of great players, and then failed to develop them properly. Some of these players have gone on to be pretty good at the professional level.

(2) Butch Jones' 2017 classes was filled with busts and players who have left the program

Latrell Bumphus is a good example of a player on our current roster who did poorly under Butch, but who has now playing very well under Pruitt. Butch moved Bumphus to TE where he never did much of anything; now that he's back at DE, he looks like one of the best D-lineman on our roster. But frankly, he's not the norm from that 2017 class.

But honestly, most of our struggles this season can be traced back to 3 things:
(*) Butch's terrible recruiting and development at O-line,
(*) Butch's terrible recruiting at D-line after 2016'ish [Tuttle and Phillips were great, but once they graduated, our DL was pretty thin],
(*) Regression of JG at QB

O-line is certainly improving rapidly, but we're starting a ton of young players, which is not the norm in the SEC. We need at least another class to get more depth on the DL. And we just have to hope that Maurer, Hill, or Harrison Bailey solve our QB problems next season.
 

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