Jones compares UT rebuilding job to Ole Miss

#251
#251
Fingers said:
But you debate the topics in a rational manner and have actual discussions, while a couple of other posters only intent is to troll and mock the staff.
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Appreciate the compliment.

Ive probably said some things that are not popular on the whole but they re my opinion none the less. Doesnt make me any more right than the next guy but it is what it is.
 
#254
#254
They are similar in some respects. Granted, Ole Miss wasn't a world beater from 2006-2012, but they didn't experience near the attrition we did.

The key similarity is this: They took a happenstance recruiting class that came out of left field(To everyone but Ole Miss fans) and used it as a launching pad into relevancy. The question is, can we do the same thing with the 2013 class?
 
#255
#255
volgrad500 said:
Well, I suppose we all hoped the guy being paid to run the program would address the issue? If you didn't think you had the groceries already in the kitchen, shouldn't you get some JUCOs or something???
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Well he did go out and get Blair, but as in most cases with Juco's that has not panned out.

I heard Swain say that of the top 10 OL JUCO's in last years class, only one is starting. I wanted to check that for myself, so I used the scout data base, I'm not sure what Swain used and I checked the top 15...I found 3 that were starters at Tackle and two that were getting playing time at Guard. TAMU picked up 2 of these guys and neither is a starter. I'm not saying Swain is wrong, I'm sure he just used a different service, but either way you slice it, that isn't a high success rate.
 
#256
#256
Ten_Titans said:
They are similar in some respects. Granted, Ole Miss wasn't a world beater from 2006-2012, but they didn't experience near the attrition we did.

The key similarity is this: They took a happenstance recruiting class that came out of left field(To everyone but Ole Miss fans) and used it as a launching pad into relevancy. The question is, can we do the same thing with the 2013 class?
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What happens in year 3 will start this season at some point.
 
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#258
#258
vol66 said:
This thread is s'posed to be about your comparison of Freeze's turn around at Ole Miss and Jones' at UT right?

I've already pointed out that the recruiting classes Freeze has gotten haven't been pressed into action the way Jones' first two have. That means he had more talent available than Jones. In 2012, Ole Miss started not one freshman on offense. There were three frosh starters on defense playing the nickel, the dime and rover...so they weren't every down players.

There is and always has been a correlation between experienced talent and wins in this league. I can't remember the exact quote, or whether it was Fulmer or Majors that said it but it was something like every true freshman you put out there equals a loss...

I looked at not only the freshmen on Ole Miss' roster but the red shirt freshman and the sophomores and Ole Miss plays the third fewest. Only Auburn who is currently 5-1 and #1 MSU (6-0) play fewer. MSU has zero true freshman on their 2 deep, none on offense or defense.

I agree with you, the coaches have to coach up talent, but you have to have said talent and there is a value to be placed on experience and you can't coach that.

Just to be clear, I don't know what kind of coaches these guys are yet and I think anyone who thinks they've got it figured out at this point is probably just full of it.
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I remember Bear Bryant or Johnny Majors saying that you lose a game for every freshmen you play.
 
#259
#259
vol66 said:
Well he did go out and get Blair, but as in most cases with Juco's that has not panned out.

I heard Swain say that of the top 10 OL JUCO's in last years class, only one is starting. I wanted to check that for myself, so I used the scout data base, I'm not sure what Swain used and I checked the top 15...I found 3 that were starters at Tackle and two that were getting playing time at Guard. TAMU picked up 2 of these guys and neither is a starter. I'm not saying Swain is wrong, I'm sure he just used a different service, but either way you slice it, that isn't a high success rate.
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:hi:
Fair enough
 
#260
#260
volgrad500 said:
Of all the things I hear Butch being criticized on, the one with the most legs imo is the fact that EVERYONE COULD SEE the offensive line was going to be a problem this year. The moment Butch left the podium from being introduced it was being discussed. So why then, in year two, is our OL unable to even handle UTC?

Whatever side of the debate you are on, you have to ask yourself that question. To me, there isn't a a very satisfactory answer.
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With all the in-state talent last year I would hope to hell Butch would go after them and not OL from all over the country.

Either scenario = this year would be a tuff season.
 
#262
#262
CountVolcula said:
Has to

We need the momentum to carry into the next year. It will make fans feel better about next year
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Yep. And finishing well and improved spring boards you into the offseason and spring practice which is the foundation for the next season.
 
#263
#263
Orange_Vol1321 said:
With all the in-state talent last year I would hope to hell Butch would go after them and not OL from all over the country.

Either scenario = this year would be a tuff season.
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Wait…so we had a year and half worth of scholarships at his disposal, but you're saying that was the problem? Every team in the country would love to have unlimited slots, I'm sure.
 
#266
#266
omghulkhands said:
This UT team is actually quite good in every aspect IMO except for offensive line.

The problem is that the line is actually a catastrophic problem we can't seem to overcome despite the overall quality of the rest of the team.

Get that fixed and I don't know why we can't see momentous improvement next year. (assuming we don't develop another catastrophic problem, such as QB)
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Best post I've read in a while. We are a good O-Line away from being 5-1 right now.
 
#267
#267
titansvolsfaninga said:
Was Vandy in the first year with said coach? Did Vandy have injuries at key positions? WR, QB? Please tell me. I would really like to know. As I have stated, Dobbs was dealing with a thumb issue and could barely grip the ball. We didn't have any other options at QB, but please don't let facts stop you.
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Vandy was in year 3. With the same coach that took them to bowl games in years 1 and 2. After taking over a 2-10 team.

And most of Vandy's starting D backfield was out.

So, now you know.
 
#268
#268
CountVolcula said:
Even though some of you said its nothing like Ole Miss, our Head coach said it himself

So, if indeed it is like the Ole Miss rebuilding job, should we not be expecting the same results as Ole Miss?

7-6 first year, bowl game

8-4 second year, bowl game

6-0 third year, #3 ranking and front runner for SEC West title

I know that some of you will come in here and say that Ole Miss had different opponents. I agree they did, but they also play in the SEC West. The toughest division in CFB

You will also come in here and say that Ole Miss had more talent. No they didn't. There talent was on par or right below UT's. Dooley smashed this Ole Miss team the last time we played in Knoxville.

Some of you will point to Freeze's 2nd recruiting class as a reason for his success. This would be true. However, that class wasn't present the first season he went 7-6. Those were mostly Houston Nutt classes that were ranked in the 20's. The second year, Freeze's class were Freshmen and went 8-4. This seems to be the excuse our fans use for the reason we are not performing. This year, Freeze's talent is sophomores and have this team ranked #3

So. I say its similar to Ole Miss' rebuilding, but not exactly the same. Due mostly to the fact the results are nothing even similar to the same
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Ole Miss wasn't as depleted on either side of the line as we have been. Last year it was our d-line. This year it's our O-line. We have more talent than they did at the skill positions but not in the trenches. That is not Butch Jones' fault. He is bringing elite players in and we will be elite again in 2 years. Bank on it.
 
#269
#269
Since the subject here is a comparison of UT to Ole Piss, I think it might be interesting to add the following quote from another thread:

Interesting to read this thread as an Ole Miss fan. I don't know enough about the Tennessee football program to compare, but I do know that if the situation in Knoxville was worse than what Nutt left, it was very, very, very bad. Ole Miss went 4-8 in 2010, lost to a 1-AA team, was murdered by Dooley's Vols in Knoxville, and lost a home game to Vandy when it was interim coached by the turkey insemination guy. That team would have been 2-10 if not for Jeremiah Masoli falling into Nutt's lap. The 2011 team did go 2-10 and was drubbed at home by La. Tech.

Nutt completely quit recruiting in September of 2011 and Freeze's first cobbled-together class was ranked in the 80s. If the 2011 team had played in a bowl game (ha!) it would have been hard to field a team because so many players would have been academically ineligible. Now, there are only three players who are significant contributors that were Nutt recruits.

I will say that building an OL is the hardest and most time consuming unit to build on the field, and it is consequently the weak spot on the current Ole Miss team.

Edit: someone made a good point about Freeze being fortunate to have an available JUCO QB in Bo Wallace who had 3 to play 3. Obviously, that is the most important position. But again, Nutt left complete dregs at that position and Freeze had to get somebody in that year or it would have been disastrous. And Wallace is from TN and I assume would have gone to UT if offered.
 
#270
#270
Spartacavolus said:
every day. All day. You should back off for awhile, and I'm not kidding. Nothing healthy about what you are doing and you don't bring anything but repetition of the same thing over and over.
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lol Reputation? What about the reputation of the other side? All I see on here everyday is the same geniuses with over inflated value of their own so called knowledge that told everyone Dooley needed one more year, stay the course, gotta give him time ect bashing guys like count just because they disagree with him. Doing the same thing over and over they did with dooley. You would think they would have learned they are not as all knowing as they think. Guess not!:crazy:
 
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#271
#271
tm3 said:
Nutt completely quit recruiting in September of 2011 and Freeze's first cobbled-together class was ranked in the 80s. If the 2011 team had played in a bowl game (ha!) it would have been hard to field a team because so many players would have been academically ineligible. Now, there are only three players who are significant contributors that were Nutt recruits.
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Sounds exactly like Dooley to me. I assume the Ole Miss poster is talking about contributors on offense because on O&D Ole Miss currently starts 8 players listed as seniors with a couple more in the 2 deep.

He's an extra year ahead so next year on offense our seniors will be Howard, Kerbyson, Jackson and Crowder, Johnathon Johnson... and on D Maggitt, Randolph, and McNeil. It's about the same.
 
#272
#272
LocoVol said:
lol Reputation? What about the reputation of the other side? All I see on here everyday is the same geniuses with over inflated value of their own so called knowledge that told everyone Dooley needed one more year, stay the course, gotta give him time ect bashing guys like count just because they disagree with him. Doing the same thing over and over they did with dooley. You would think they would have learned they are not as all knowing as they think. Guess not!:crazy:
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I don't think you understood what he was saying...go back and read the post.

hint: repetition not reputation.
 
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#273
#273
LocoVol said:
lol Reputation? What about the reputation of the other side? All I see on here everyday is the same geniuses with over inflated value of their own so called knowledge that told everyone Dooley needed one more year, stay the course, gotta give him time ect bashing guys like count just because they disagree with him. Doing the same thing over and over they did with dooley. You would think they would have learned they are not as all knowing as they think. Guess not!:crazy:
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Reparation, repartition, repertoire
 
#275
#275
CountVolcula said:
Even though some of you said its nothing like Ole Miss, our Head coach said it himself

So, if indeed it is like the Ole Miss rebuilding job, should we not be expecting the same results as Ole Miss?

7-6 first year, bowl game

8-4 second year, bowl game

6-0 third year, #3 ranking and front runner for SEC West title

I know that some of you will come in here and say that Ole Miss had different opponents. I agree they did, but they also play in the SEC West. The toughest division in CFB

You will also come in here and say that Ole Miss had more talent. No they didn't. There talent was on par or right below UT's. Dooley smashed this Ole Miss team the last time we played in Knoxville.

Some of you will point to Freeze's 2nd recruiting class as a reason for his success. This would be true. However, that class wasn't present the first season he went 7-6. Those were mostly Houston Nutt classes that were ranked in the 20's. The second year, Freeze's class were Freshmen and went 8-4. This seems to be the excuse our fans use for the reason we are not performing. This year, Freeze's talent is sophomores and have this team ranked #3

So. I say its similar to Ole Miss' rebuilding, but not exactly the same. Due mostly to the fact the results are nothing even similar to the same
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Very intriguing point you bring up. Looking at it it def seems like we SHOULD have atleast the same results. But I agree with what a few other ppl have stated. That the stars aligned with OM. Now if we arent winning next year then something is up. I know we all say it, but coaching turnover has KILLED us the past 5 years so changing coaches will not help. :twocents:
 
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