Jones and the stars

#26
#26
I just thought all the coaches recruited the players they thought they could get, that had the most talent. Excepts maybe lane. He liked to quote the recruiting rankings.
 
#27
#27
ALLVOL 4LIFE said:
You are correct, he is, but would a person looking at stars go after a 2* JUCO TE thats a volleyball player from Pepperdine? He is going after talent, no matter what their profile says.
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:eek:k:

He is going after talent that will work in his system. Star rankings will quite often coincide with these traits.
 
#28
#28
orangepeopleeater said:
I'm not trying to make excuses, but is Coach Jones recruiting more on talent and position more than the stars next to their name? If you look at the videos on some of these 2 or 3 star players they look great (granted it is chosen plays). Many of these players are being recruited by other prestigious programs ( like Alambama, Georgia, Florida State, Penn State, and others). Do you think he can build a top 10 team on talent rather than star potential?
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No! We have been down that road with DD. Look where that got us. 4 SEC wins in 3 years and a loss to Kentucy and an Arse kicking from Vandy.
 
#29
#29
i think butch jones has confidence in himself and his staff in teaching the game. thats great to have..reminds of another butch around the 96-97 recruiting cycle...hmmmmmmm
 
#30
#30
ALLVOL 4LIFE said:
I think he is a COACH. I have never got all caught up in stars myself. I like the fact that he can see talent without going to Rivals to get the players info. More times than not the info is wrong on a kids profile anyway. For example, I really do like D Green and he is a 5* recruit, but his video isn't any more impressive than some of the 3*'s we have been recruiting. Like JoJo Kemps being a 3*, he looks like a beast to me and now it appears he has dropped us or we dropped him, who really knows. I know it depends on competition and other things, but even I can see if a kid can run, cut, and break through tackles. So I say yes he can build a top 10 program with 3* players. Only time will tell, I belive in him alot more than I have our recent leaders anyway.
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You had me until the Green comment.
 
#31
#31
InVOLuntary said:
CBJ is going to have to try and find the "diamond in the rough" type players. While CBJ may be the best coach in the nation, he is relatively unknown and most of the 4 and 5 star guys are not going to take a chance on him. For CBJ to be successful, he's going to have to do more with less until he can build up his reputation. Recruiting will take care of itself if he can win all the games he is supposed to, win a game or two he's not, and be competitive in the rest.

It will not be an overnight success type of thing but gradual over a few years. People claim that UT fans won't have the patience for this type of rebuild. I disagree as I think Dooley would still be coaching here had he shown any improvement at all.
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He's not exactly an unknown. People around the country know who Butch Jones is.
 
#33
#33
Recruiting off the Espn 150 hasn't worked for Kiffin yet.

I trust CBJ's evaluations.

And we're still in it for a lot of big names down the stretch.
 
#34
#34
its not that hes unknown, its young kids that have not seen the glory of UT,,in order to get the top talent you have to work your way there, do more with less and they will come,,,,
 
#35
#35
Any chnace that BJ might find a linebacker on a curling team or a QB playing jai alai?
 
#37
#37
dlw4n said:
I can also name a good 10-15 4 and 5 star players that we are at least in the conversation with going into the final stretch. All of these people who make it appear as if we are only recruiting 2-3* diamonds in the rough are either ignorant or delusional. Yes, we are looking at some of those too, but look at where we are spending the bulk of our time right now: Lawson, Green, North, etc, etc.
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lets see how many 4 and 5 star players they sign .i know alot of people were excieted when dooley landed alot of his first class so ill wait before i praise or gripe
 
#38
#38
I'm glad you brought up stars ***********.

I just looked up how Rivals comes up with their points for recruiting. Did you know that the points are heavily weighted (if not 100%) to where the Rivals 100 go.

Let's get real. What system, service, person or persons can really pick the top 100 High School Seniors. There are about 254,000 high school senior football players. So 100 is 0.04% of 254,000. What a farce!!! It's like picking through 2 and a half tons of crap and picking the cleanest 100 1/16 ounce pieces.

Now I know info comes in from camps and what coaches and teams are recruiting that help pick the top 100. So it probably means the top 100 are good players but it might also mean the next 100 are just as good.
 
#39
#39
darkgable said:
He's not exactly an unknown. People around the country know who Butch Jones is.
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He doesn't have a reputation good or bad just yet. He is viewed as bright up and coming coach. More importantly as it relates to recruiting, he is relatively unknown to kids.
 
#42
#42
Vols4us said:
A team full of overachievers will not beat Bama, A&M, LSU, USCe, UGA or UF if they are on their games. It will simply make us more competitive. At some point you have to land consensus top talent to compete at the top level.
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So coaching has nothing to do with it? It is merely recruiting the best of the best?
 
#43
#43
InVOLuntary said:
CBJ is going to have to try and find the "diamond in the rough" type players. While CBJ may be the best coach in the nation, he is relatively unknown and most of the 4 and 5 star guys are not going to take a chance on him. For CBJ to be successful, he's going to have to do more with less until he can build up his reputation. Recruiting will take care of itself if he can win all the games he is supposed to, win a game or two he's not, and be competitive in the rest.

It will not be an overnight success type of thing but gradual over a few years. People claim that UT fans won't have the patience for this type of rebuild. I disagree as I think Dooley would still be coaching here had he shown any improvement at all.
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I think we will give CBJ a legitimate chance, if he shows that he can coach and shows that he can get improvement from the players.

Dooley would still be here if (1) He had beaten LSU & UNC his first season. That would have given us a winning record. (2) Beaten Ky, in 2011, w hich would have gotten us in a bowl game. (3) Had Dooley been able to keep the defensive co ordinator and the 4 -3, then we beat Florida, UGA, Missouri, Miss St. & USC this season to post a 10 win regular season record. With loses to Alabama & Vandy. (Those were the only two games that were out of hand, from the score. The other loses were relatively close) With a 10 win season, we go to a bowl game and recruiting is better and Dooley remains the head coach which gives us coaching stability in the staff..
 
#44
#44
You can make up as many excuses as you like, but the bottom line is, Butch Jones is going to have to recruit at a super high level in order to succeed here. This isn't Wake Forest or California or wherever. You can't take mostly project guys and coach them up and expect to win in the SEC. Not when your rivals are getting top classes year after year (and those rivals have excellent coaches who "coach them up" too).

If people could just get their head out of the sand, they could see that the recruiting rankings do matter and excuses do not. This first class isn't the be all and end all of Coach Jones career here, but it will tell us alot about whether he will be able to compete or not in the years to come.
 
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#45
#45
orangepeopleeater said:
I'm not trying to make excuses, but is Coach Jones recruiting more on talent and position more than the stars next to their name? If you look at the videos on some of these 2 or 3 star players they look great (granted it is chosen plays). Many of these players are being recruited by other prestigious programs ( like Alambama, Georgia, Florida State, Penn State, and others). Do you think he can build a top 10 team on talent rather than star potential?
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This is a bit confusing....but I am guessing that you mean to say: "Do you think he can build a top 10 team based on potential rather than star rating?"

Well, yes...of course. If the players that he recruits buy into the program and what he is preaching, fit the scheme, and turn out to work hard enough to increase their value. But no one has a crystal ball...these athletes are just kids and some of these kids come with baggage and/or can't cut it at a University, get injured...etc...etc...and end up not turning into the players that the coaches had hoped they would become.

But higher star rating does not necessarily carry anymore insurance. It simply means that the 4 and 5 * athletes have more obvious ability to be early playmakers, are physically or mentally better prepared for big ball, and have been buzzed about for long enough during their highschool/juco careers that College coaches and media writers are taking notice and watching game film or camps and offering early.

I would bet that CBJ would prefer to have a roster full of 4* and 5* guys with a few other athletes to round out the needs...but Tennessee is not USC and we are not Alabama and he is not Saban, Spurrier, or Meyer. We may offer every guy with a lot of stars next to his name but CBJ is smart enough to know, with the current climate of our program, to go after and/or accept athletes who can be coached up or are diamonds in the rough as opposed to waiting for the phone calls from the celebrity kids that will never come.
 
#47
#47
VolsFanRJ said:
Fulmer recruited based on stars but couldn't develop the talent that he got. Worked for him for years when he wasn't coaching against the Saban, Meyer, Richt, etc,... and then his luck ran out. He only coached against Spurrier back then and rarely beat him.

Bottom line, you gotta have the talent to compete against the talent these other SEC schools are bringing in.
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So what your saying is Fulmer never developed players and sent them to the NFL? I would list all the names of players that were in the NFL or they are currently there that proves you wrong on so many many levels.

I don't get the blind hate for the guy. He did more for UT then all of us combined.
 
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