Jon Gruden (Tampa Bay Bucs) discussion

#51
#51
I brought that up earlier but please explain what that means....... Point still remains, you don't have to go get your players, much less high school children. I don't understand what you don't get about that. And maybe Parcells had no say in the ingedients was because he couldn't evaluate talent, just yell and intimidate. Oh yeah, college coaches are expected to teach the game as well.

We get it, we get it...you think that recruiting is hard, which it is. But that still doesnt mean that the NFL is not tougher than college. The egos are bigger, the stakes are higher, and in the end the responsibilities are more and the hours, and season, are longer. And coaches at any level are expected to teach. That why good college players end up sittng on the bench for much of the first year...learning.

And Gruden is on the lower end of the pay scale in the NFL, which would put him in the high end of the pay scale in college. You have valid points, but there are valid points both ways. IMO, its not as illogical and ridiculous as some might think.

...of course, that doesnt mean I think Gruden will be here next year.
 
#52
#52
Saying making a BCS bowl is the same as making the playoffs loses credibility of any argument you could make tonight. Get some sleep and come back on Halloween. :eek:lol:

wow. I'm not sure why I'm arguing on why the NFL is tougher than College. It's pretty easy to understand. My point, lets line this up the best we can.

Elite College Coach's goal:

1) Win Division (If you play in a division)
2) Win Conference
3) Get to BCS Bowl
4) Win National Championship

Elite NFL Coach's goal:

1) Win Division
2) Make Playoffs
3) Win Superbowl

To a college coach, playing in a BCS bowl would be the closest thing equivalent to a NFL Coach making the playoffs.
 
#53
#53
A very good article comparing the difference in coaching in the NFL over College.

USATODAY.com - For college coaches, going pro is full of cons

Yeah, all of you that think it is harder at the college level just because you have to recuit players should probably have your heads examined.

Look at Jon Gruden, who won a Super Bowl with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and famously wakes each day at 3:17 a.m. to leave for work.

I hope we get Gruden or Cowher. If, Hamilton can land one of them. He is the MASTER recruiter himself. Maybe he needs to help in our recruiting.
 
#54
#54
More than a third of the NFL makes the playoffs. BCS teams make up less than 10%. Even if you use only BSC conference teams, its much less.

120 in FBS. Only 40-60 of them have a reasonable shot at making a BCS bowl. That may be stretching it.
 
#55
#55
In the NFL everyone is playing with roughly the same resources (salary cap, four-team divisions, etc.). In FBS, many victories are bought and a foregone conclusion (UAB, N. Illinois) because of superior facilities, talent, money, etc. So in some ways it's harder in the NFL because of the relative parity, while in the FBS there are more teams and it's not entirely within a program's control (BCS, polls, etc.)
 
#56
#56
120 in FBS. Only 40-60 of them have a reasonable shot at making a BCS bowl. That may be stretching it.

More than 30 different teams have played in a BCS bowl since Tennessee last did. So it ain't 40 that have a reasonable shot. Maybe 60.

In any case, the percentage of teams that make the playoffs in the NFL is considerably higher than the percentage of viable college teams that play in a BCS game.
 
#57
#57
More than 30 different teams have played in a BCS bowl since Tennessee last did. So it ain't 40 that have a reasonable shot. Maybe 60.

In any case, the percentage of teams that make the playoffs in the NFL is considerably higher than the percentage of viable college teams that play in a BCS game.


I understand that. I'm just talking on a yearly basis. I would say in College Football, 40 teams have a reasonable shot at making a BCS Bowl. You can take out mid-major teams, except teams like Utah, Boise State, & a few others.

Anyways, my point is 12 teams make the playoffs in the NFL, & 10 make BCS bowls in College Football.

If for some reason, & I've already forgotten why, you try & compare College coaching goals, & NFL coaching goals. Then making a BCS bowl for a college coach, would be the closest thing IMO equivalent to a NFL coach making the playoffs.
 
#58
#58
I understand that. I'm just talking on a yearly basis. I would say in College Football, 40 teams have a reasonable shot at making a BCS Bowl. You can take out mid-major teams, except teams like Utah, Boise State, & a few others.

Anyways, my point is 12 teams make the playoffs in the NFL, & 10 make BCS bowls in College Football.

If for some reason, & I've already forgotten why, you try & compare College coaching goals, & NFL coaching goals. Then making a BCS bowl for a college coach, would be the closest thing IMO equivalent to a NFL coach making the playoffs.
Getting into a college BCS game is end game. Getting into the NFL playoffs is just the beginning. Like you said 12 teams make the NFL playoffs and can advance while 10 schools make BCS bowls and win or lose. Are we talking about college playoffs or NFL coaches reverting to college coaching? In the words of Vinnie Barbarino "I'm so confused"...
 
#59
#59
Getting into a college BCS game is end game. Getting into the NFL playoffs is just the beginning. Like you said 12 teams make the NFL playoffs and can advance while 10 schools make BCS bowls and win or lose. Are we talking about college playoffs or NFL coaches reverting to college coaching? In the words of Vinnie Barbarino "I'm so confused"...

I agree, crazy debate. I guess the original point wasn't talking about after the wildcard/first game of the playoff. Just making it a goal to get there. Just as a college head coach would make it a goal to make a BCS bowl.

Either way I'm tired, which could be affecting my judgement. I will quote this in the previous article referring to the OP as to why Gruden would even consider making a jump to College from the NFL.

" Lifestyle matters. College coaches are limited by the NCAA in how often they can work their teams. Spring involves a few weeks of practice and clinics (and golf).

In the NFL's wearing pace never ceases. Training camp opens at the end of July, preseason games begin, the season runs from early September to January (or February, for the Super Bowl teams). There's the scouting combine to examine college prospects, free agency, the draft, the second wave of free agency, minicamps, passing camps, quarterback schools and maybe a few free weeks in June.

"Assuming you at least like your wife and enjoy being with your kids, and your assistants feel the same way about their families, the college experience is much more skewed toward having a normal life," More says.

"Your kids can be around the program more. Your wife will be involved with activities if it's the usual college town. It's much more user-friendly. In the NFL, you're in the bunker."
 
#60
#60
we are getting ahead of ourselves if we really think that we'll get Gruden. it's not going to happen
 
#61
#61
If you have heard me give this rant on similar threads, I'm sorry. I've been saying for a while that if we wanted Gruden, we can get him. I think this is enough information for everyone to form a rational opinion.

How the times have changed since the last time we did this. In short, its been along time. I think we will all agree on one thing, we want to get it right the first time. After watching everybody upgrade and modernize their coaching staffs the last 8 years, we have sit back biting our fingers, and the last 5 banging our heads. But now its our turn.

I'm not going to go throught the bama thing, cause we all witnessed it. Mal Moore couldn't afford to hire another dud and the bamers were desperate for success. They entertained all the trendy names, but in the end there was only one canidate they wanted. He was a guarantee in everyones book. They stopped at nothing and bought Nick Saban despite any ties to Alabama of the University. He even took a pay cut to get back to the SEC and makes around $4 million yr.

BIO and Career

Jon Gruden grew up in South Bend, IN where his dad was an assistant to Devine at ND. Gruden later went to Dayton to play football. His dad then went to the Bucs and his parents moved to Tampa Bay.

After college, his first coaching job was as a grad assistant at UT. After a hot cheerleader dumped Johnny Majors son, Gruden said I don't give a ****, swooped in and eventually married her. She is from Sevier County, I believe Morristown.

1/2 of his roots are in TN

Remember his parents moved to TB when Gruden was in college. After a long stint there, his dad was fired and vowed never to return. He didn't until Gruden became HC and he became a scout.

He is not attached to TB.
He is disattached from the Midwest and never coached in the big ten or notre dame.
His wife's entire family is from East TN.


The majority of assistants and coordinators on that team were successful collegiate and NFL coaches. He stayed with the UT boys all the way to the NFL.

Walt Harris took him to Pacific.
Then his last collegiate job was at Pitt

His dad set up a job with Holmgreen who was OC at SF under Bill Walsh. Holmgreen then took him to GreenBay and Philly. Without ever returning to the college game, he became the headcoach at Oakland and now TB.

His pedigree is UT and Holmgreen.

His record at TB:

2002: 15-4 Won SB
2003: 7-9 NO Playoff
2004: 11-6 Lost first round
2005: 7-9 No Playoff
2006: 4-12 No Playoff
2007: 9-8 CONTRACT YEAR LOST FIRST ROUND
2008: 5-3

Total: 58-51 (NO playoff Wins since super bowl)

Even his SuperBowl wasn't going to get him a contract extension in 2007. But he squeked a homefield playoff birth out during a contract year.

His contract was extended only 4 years until 2011. Unless he wins some playoff games, he will be coaching somewhere else.

He makes $4.3 million a year. (8th)
Holmgreen makes the most, $8 million

What he makes is Low tier NFL money but would barely make him the highest paid coach in college.

Can UT afford him

Yes.

What Bama paid Saban in 06 was $4 million.
2 years worth of market inflation, he would cost around $4.5 million in 2009. So if we did what Bama did, we would alredy be matching his current salary. The rumor is an intial offer of $5 million. Makes sense.

How High can UT go?

Gruden is going to pack out Neyland every game and you know it. It would be bigger than Saban since he is a 41 YR OLD SUPERBOWL WINNING COACH! Makes Mark Richt look old fashioned. Saban has already made bama more money than they will ever have to pay him out.


$EC TV Contracts

I truely believe this is going to change college football forever.

Next year the SEC will receive
2.25 BILLION for 15 years from ESPN
55 million a year from CBS

Totaling 200 million a year
All 12 schools will receive an additional $16.5 million a year

Within a year, Saban was bumped to 2nd highest in the SEC by Miles. Before the TV contracts, we were already paying our 2nd best SEC coach top 10 NFL money. This money will be used to pay for the best coaches in the nation, top coordinators in the nation, and will keep the coaches from leaving. Not only that, the SEC may one day see the highest paid coach in all of Football.

ESPN, SEC agree to $2.25 billion TV deal | ajc.com

Do we really want Chucky

Yes. The only other person with a very high probability of succeeding is Butch Davis. But competing with Clemson, Auburn, and UNC is going to drive the bidding throught the roof. They may not have a longshot canidate like us and may kill for him. Before its over, Jimmy Sexton is going to suck $4 million out of someone. IMO this is way too high . For $4 million, you shouldn't have to risk anything. As much as I like BD as my second favorite, I still think he's a little risky. Besides, we got the money for Gruden.

If you are willing to risk $4 million
Then go on and pay $6 mil for the guarantee


Bucs give Jon Gruden 3-year extension - USATODAY.com

Jon Gruden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#62
#62
This is a well-thought out and well-written post, GV. Congrats on that. I think the biggest question, which is still unanswered, is: Will Gruden want to leave the NFL and the Bucs to come coach in college? That's the biggest deal. If he gets fired from TB, someone will hire him in the NFL, IMO. I just don't see him making the move to becoming a collegiate head coach, which he's never been.
 
#63
#63
Just for a moment, imagine that glare of his to a QB that makes a bad read, or a back that fumbles. That is what dreams are made of. I put a couple dollars under my pillow hoping the coach fairy comes and collects it to make this happen..........
 
#64
#64
Food for thought:

Clemson wants Lane and Monty Kiffin (TB D Coor) to come together. This is an odd request but giving this scenario, it would explain why he could. After this became known, Clemson all of a sudden quit acting like a school needing a coach.

Additonally, what made the Gruden rumor different from the rest? There was an actual mention of a monetary value of $5 million...and it makes sense.

TB is 5-3 and Jeff Garcia is 55 years old.
Surely Garcia's years are numbered. Does Chucky really want to develop a young QB in his final contract years. Even worse, go the free agent route with his job on the line.

One last run. Chucky to Rocky Top. Monty to Clemson.

Is it me, or does Chucky seem like a person who would get pumped up hearing Rocky Top 1000 times?
 
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#65
#65
Food for thought:

Clemson wants Lane and Monty Kiffin (TB D Coor) to come together. If Gruden leaves, Monty can go to Clemson.
After this became known, Clemson all of a sudden quit acting like a school needing a coach.

TB is 5-3 and Jeff Garcia is 55 years old.
Surely Garcia's years are numbered. Does Chucky really want to develop a young QB in his final contract years. Even worse, go the free agent route with his job on the line.

One last run. Chucky to Rocky Top. Monty to Clemson.

Is it me, or does Chucky seem like a person who would get pumped up hearing Rocky Top 1000 times?
You should be ashamed making us drool like that.:)
 
#66
#66
I really, really, really want to believe it, but it would seem too good to be true. Gruden has been successful in the NFL, and if something ever happened at Tampa, he would get snatched up by another team. Saban looked to be a failure.
 
#67
#67
I can't be, I am deadset on a defensive minded coach here.

I would be happy with an offensive coach as long as he understood both sides of the ball, and had that defensive minded intensity that you don't see a lot of offensive coaches have.
 
#68
#68
This is a well-thought out and well-written post, GV. Congrats on that. I think the biggest question, which is still unanswered, is: Will Gruden want to leave the NFL and the Bucs to come coach in college? That's the biggest deal. If he gets fired from TB, someone will hire him in the NFL, IMO. I just don't see him making the move to becoming a collegiate head coach, which he's never been.

I seen in an interview once with Gruden about his coaching tenure with UT and if he would ever consider being head coach one day. He just smiled real big. this was several years ago could he have forseen his future?

or we could get Tony Dungey the colts are having a year like we are. and after this year he is leaving the colts and the NFL to be with his family. I think East Tennessee is a good place to settle down rase your family and kick some bama ass 3rd saturday in october.:peace2:
 
#69
#69
I seen in an interview once with Gruden about his coaching tenure with UT and if he would ever consider being head coach one day. He just smiled real big. this was several years ago could he have forseen his future?

or we could get Tony Dungey the colts are having a year like we are. and after this year he is leaving the colts and the NFL to be with his family. I think East Tennessee is a good place to settle down rase your family and kick some bama ass 3rd saturday in october.:peace2:

Tony Dungy just called. He said he refuses to coach at UT because you mispelled his name.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#72
#72
On offense, Dungy's strategy involved a conservative, ball-control offense based primarily around running the ball and short, high-percentage passes when he was at Tampa Bay. At Indianapolis, he inherited and kept the offense designed by offensive coordinator Tom Moore because the offense was in the hands of someone he knew and trusted.[8] In both cases, most of the offensive planning has been handled by his offensive coordinators.

On defense, Dungy uses a stifling "Cover 2" style zone defense, which is usually based on a formation with 4 linemen, 3 linebackers, and 4 defensive backs. The "Cover 2" defense Dungy uses involves having his linemen rushing the passer, the cornerbacks covering the passing flat area, the linebackers covering the middle of the field, and the safeties providing deep coverage on each half of their respective zones. While the Cover 2 defense is not a new concept, the personnel that Dungy uses in this defense is very specific, and as a result, his style of defense has earned the moniker of the "Tampa 2" around the NFL.[14]
 
#73
#73
Mr. Manning could have an influence on Mike Hamilton. and Dungy could get a lot of information from Manning about the school and the surrounding location
 
#74
#74
Food for thought:

Clemson wants Lane and Monty Kiffin (TB D Coor) to come together. This is an odd request but giving this scenario, it would explain why he could.

That's not odd at all. Lane wanted to hire Daddy in Oakland and Al Davis said no
 
#75
#75
Saying making a BCS bowl is the same as making the playoffs loses credibility of any argument you could make tonight. Get some sleep and come back on Halloween. :eek:lol:

A couple of 8-8 teams have made the playoffs.
 
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