Joe Milton Throw by Throw Breakdown

[Hunerwadel]

This wasn't a good much less "very good" performance by Milton. He missed opportunities. He was off target on several throws.

I'm not turning on him or saying he cannot improve. But this was not a "good" performance. If UT had not been able to run it down their throats (which would have been true with either of the others) then they wouldn't have beaten even BGSU. UT needs MUCH better from the QB position.

I can appreciate your opinion. But if it wasn't a good performance as you state you must think it was a poor or bad performance. I don't agree.

 

[Carl Pickens]

It’s the throws he didn’t make that worry me.
I can’t believe all them times he standing there holding the ball there wasn’t someone to throw to. Vision? Lack of confidence?
Good QBs need a narrow window to complete passes, average ones don’t attempt to throw into narrow windows

This

 

[sjt18]

I can appreciate your opinion. But if it wasn't a good performance as you state you must think it was a poor or bad performance. I don't agree.

11/23 against BGSU is a poor performance. Under 50% against one of the worst programs in CFB... cannot be labeled "good".

 

[sjt18]

It’s the throws he didn’t make that worry me.
I can’t believe all them times he standing there holding the ball there wasn’t someone to throw to. Vision? Lack of confidence?
Good QBs need a narrow window to complete passes, average ones don’t attempt to throw into narrow windows

I think he failed to anticipate guys coming open. He wasn't throwing the crossing routes that we actually saw them work on constantly. He missed the TE more than once as they were coming open in a gap in the zone.

Not sure why but that has to be fixed pronto. I don't particularly like the JG comparisons at this point but anticipating throws was a career long blight on JG.

 

[DaddyChad]

I shudder to think what Bama would have done to him with that type of performance.

Regardless....it’s too early to shut the book on him. Let’s see what Heupel does. But at least we can turn down all the “Cam Newton”, “dual-threat” noise that was being espoused last week.

This was always going to be a work-in-progress year. We’re going to see some good things, and some letdowns. But I believe this coach will get us on the right track with a little time.

Yeah, I’m not throwing Heupel under the bus. Much the contrary, I think ppl have way too high expectations this year. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to lose next game. We just have a long ways to go to rebuild.

 

[DaddyChad]

On the news today ..... "Cam Newton plays quarterback differently than Lamar Jackson." No really.... Joe Milton is not Lamar Jackson, who in the world told you that is who he resembled? Tell me another quarterback that plays and can scramble like Lamar Jackson? What I do know is that there has not been a quarterback on the Hill since Josh Dobbs that could have pushed a defender down like he did and run to the end zone. That would be true regardless of who they were playing.

Dobbs was faster than he appeared though as well

 

[BigOrangeCrush32]

He held the ball WAY TOO LONG. He also can't anticipate the WR getting open to save his life. He relies to much on his arm strength and waits until the WR is actually open before throwing. SEC Defenses will eat him alive.

 

[usagary]

You ever seen a QB with deader feet than Milton? Literally his feet are in stone until he decides to move. Most really good QBs at any level are keeping a beat in those feet until they set and throw.

Other than that one run up the middle, his scrambles reminded me of Casey Klausen. When by brother and I see a slow running QB, we refer to it as kicking it into Klausen gear.

 

[usagary]

Don;t know the pass number, but there was a couple of throws to the sideline, that I felt that if it was against an SEC DB they would have been picked. They say the best improvement comes in game two, so I will take a wait and see.

I saw those also. Scared me for a second and told my wife that that’s a pick 6 against an SEC opponent.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Pass 1: Throws on 2nd down and 9 to Jacob Warren after rolling out. Nice throw, pass was good for 4 yards.
Pass 2: Throws on 3rd and 5, hits Jalen Hyatt on a comeback route, stayed in pocket, good for 6 yards and a first down.
Pass 3: Threw on 1st and 10 to Javonta Payton at the sideline. Accurate throw, good for 6 yards.
Pass 4: Very next play, short throw to Javonta Payton again on the sideline, good for first down and then some.
Pass 5: 2nd down throw down the left sideline incomplete. Threw it too high for receiver Hyatt. However, there was a personal foul that may have impacted the throw. Play was negated

Pass 6: Scrambles outside of the pocket, extends the play, hits Fant on the sideline, accurate throw. Good for 6 yards.
Pass 7: 1st and 10. Overthrows Cedric Tillman by at least 7 yards. Tillman beat the DBs, but still an overthrow by Milton.
Pass 8: Short throw to Hyatt. Accurate, but Hyatt tackled immediately. Good for about 6 yards.
Pass 9: 1st and 10. Has an absurd amount of time, throws a strike to Hyatt on the left sideline, Hyatt makes a man miss gets the 1st and more.

Pass 10: Scrambles outside of the pocket, gives a strike to Jalen Hyatt across the middle of the field, again, absurd amount of time to throw.
Pass 11: Pass complete to Velus Jones, however, threw it a bit behind him, which led to an early tackle, and not much positive yardage or space to run. (This play was negated by a holding penalty)
Pass 12: Completed pass to Cedric Tillman, hit him right in the numbers, good for 8 yards. (The next play was the one where Tiyon was in the middle of the field wide open jumping up and down waving his arms, but Joe instead took a sack, leading to 4th down.)

Pass 13: Threw an absolute bullet across the middle of the field to Hyatt. Hit Hyatt in between the numbers but it was too hot to handle and Hyatt dropped it.
Pass 14: 0:01 on the clock before the half. Threw ball out of bounds. Play was negated due to flag.
Pass 15: 0:01 on the clock before the half. Threw ball into end zone. Gave Tillman a chance to catch it, but a Hail Mary is just about getting it there. There were 4 white jerseys surrounding Tillman.

End of 1st Half

Pass 16: Has all day to throw on 1st and 10. Overthrows Tillman by maybe 1-2 yards on what would have been a touchdown.
Pass 17: Threw to the sideline to Javonta Payton. Pass was caught, but with a foot out of bounds, therefore incomplete. This led to a 4th down.
Pass 18: Overthrew Tillman again down the right sideline, however, pass interference was called. Tillman had a shot at it had the defense played it clean.
Pass 19: Had all day to throw, scrambled to the left, threw to Hyatt about 6 yards downfield, but Hyatt caught it out of bounds.
Pass 20: Scrambled right, threw to the end zone at Hyatt, accurate pass, but the DB played it well and swatted it.
Pass 21: Threw to the endzone to Tillman from about the 12 yard line. Threw it too far to the front shoulder instead of the back shoulder. Jordan Rodgers commented about throwing it too far ahead. Incomplete.
Pass 22: Hit Hyatt perfectly right in front of the end zone, most likely would have been a touchdown. Hyatt dropped it, and he knew it too.
Pass 23: Threw to Velus Jones across midfield. Pass hit dirt, appeared too low. Incomplete. However, pass interference was called, so it's hard to blame it on either Milton or Jones.
Pass 24: Absolutely perfect 40 yard strike to Tillman in the end zone. Did a good job buying time in the pocket, and beautiful throw.

I realize all of this is basically my interpretation of his performance. I can't speak to how plays were supposed to go, or even which receivers were open that he missed, since TV didn't always show that.

But when I look at the passes he actually threw, he had an overthrow to Tillman that would have been a touchdown had he scaled back just a smidge (Tillman had his man beat). He had at least two throws that were impacted by pass interference or a personal foul. He had two perfect passes that were dropped by Hyatt. He overthrew Tillman by a yard or 2. He threw passes too far to the sidelines, just enough to where the receiver had to step out of bounds.

I can't comment on his rushing ability either. I don't know what plays were designed runs, and what he improvised. And I know there were some plays where he missed open receivers.

But, after watching it all a second time, I can't see where the hate is coming from. He had about two overthrows that could have been TDs. If he places that ball 3 feet behind Tillman on his back shoulder instead of his front, he would have had another TD. And had Hyatt not dropped the one on the 3 yard line, he would have had another.

Milton could have easily had a very different stat line in this game. Initially I was disappointed in his performance. But after watching it again? His throws were miles above what we were used to seeing from JG. He was throwing the ball accurately for the most part, and when he was off, he was not off by much. And aside from the fumble, he took care of the football. I didn't see any passes that I thought were "dangerous" passes, i.e. throwing into double coverage.

It's obvious he has a connection with Tillman, and if that timing and connection gets stronger, holy crap, that could be magic.

Milton won't have all day to throw like he did today in other games. But I think that may help him, as sometimes he took too long to make decisions, and then went for more ambitious throws than he should have.

My point? I don't think it was as bad as it seemed. He threw well. Not perfectly. But well. The receivers need to step up their game. And it's also obvious we tried hard to establish the running game.

I think it'll be alright. Next week will show us much more about who this team is. GBO. So nice to see the Orange and White back in Neyland again.

Let’s hope. Definitely some dropped passes that are not on Milton

 

[MiramarVol]

The takeaway I got from the OP post was, Milton had all day to throw and still missed some easy throws and open receivers

Open receivers when they dropped 8 defenders? Ok

 

[MiramarVol]

He held the ball WAY TOO LONG. He also can't anticipate the WR getting open to save his life. He relies to much on his arm strength and waits until the WR is actually open before throwing. SEC Defenses will eat him alive.

So why was he just standing there holding the ball so long?

 

[BigOrangeCrush32]

So why was he just standing there holding the ball so long?

I explained in the next sentence. He isn't anticipating the WR getting open. Multiple times, and twice taking a sack or short yardage run on 3rd that wasn't enough for a first down when a WR was open.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I explained in the next sentence. He isn't anticipating the WR getting open. Multiple times, and twice taking a sack or short yardage run on 3rd that wasn't enough for a first down when a WR was open.

I just wonder how much they practiced throwing against 8 men back in coverage. Given what I've seen of Heupel's philosophy, if they're giving you the run..... take the run.

Even though BG rushed only 3 for a good portion of the game, Milton was still dropping back to pass...... and holding the ball forever because: a 3 man rush and 8 guys covering. That's my question for Heupel: can you not make rushing 3 a liability for the defense? If you can't, expect to see a lot of drop 8 pass coverage.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

I just wonder how much they practiced throwing against 8 men back in coverage. Given what I've seen of Heupel's philosophy, if they're giving you the run..... take the run.

Even though BG rushed only 3 for a good portion of the game, Milton was still dropping back to pass...... and holding the ball forever because: a 3 man rush and 8 guys covering. That's my question for Heupel: can you not make rushing 3 a liability for the defense? If you can't, expect to see a lot of drop 8 pass coverage.

I mean I think everybody on our staff knew we could have run the ball every play and win, but we wanted to mix it up for practice sake.

Once we got out of rhythm you saw us just say screw it and run the ball to get right at the start of the second half.

If teams play cover 8 all night from here on out we will gladly gash them all night.

Pitt won't want the line of scrimmage dominated like that, they have dudes they believe in to stop the run up front. They ain't going cover 8. Joe will have easier reads and won't look hapless for a whole quarter.

I mean Bowling Green pulled out all the stops. They weren't scared.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I mean I think everybody on our staff knew we could have run the ball every play and win, but we wanted to mix it up for practice sake.

Once we got out of rhythm you saw us just say screw it and run the ball to get right at the start of the second half.

If teams play cover 8 all night from here on out we will gladly gash them all night.

Pitt won't want the line of scrimmage dominated like that, they have dudes they believe in to stop the run up front. They ain't going cover 8. Joe will have easier reads and won't look hapless for a whole quarter.

I mean Bowling Green pulled out all the stops. They weren't scared.

Bowling Green only needed to not get boat raced and they accomplished that.

And yeah, Heupel started running but we never REALLY broke enough huge runs to force them to stop just defending the pass and only rushing 3. As much as folks have ragged on Milton, our backs should've been hitting 15-20yd runs regularly because the O Line had their way with the BG front and 8 guys were back.

My concern is BG, which has way less talent, managed to stop Heupel's tempo offense pretty easily with the 3 man front. We looked great in our first 2 drives....... then the drop 8/3 man rush made everything slow to a crawl.

If BG can do that so easily without great secondary talent, SEC teams whose linebackers can release and close on runs very quickly and who have seriously talented defensive linemen will make Heupel's tempo offense useless.

 

[TNHopeful505]

Bowling Green only needed to not get boat raced and they accomplished that.

And yeah, Heupel started running but we never REALLY broke enough huge runs to force them to stop just defending the pass and only rushing 3. As much as folks have ragged on Milton, our backs should've been hitting 15-20yd runs regularly because the O Line had their way with the BG front and 8 guys were back.

My concern is BG, which has way less talent, managed to stop Heupel's tempo offense pretty easily with the 3 man front. We looked great in our first 2 drives....... then the drop 8/3 man rush made everything slow to a crawl.

If BG can do that so easily without great secondary talent, SEC teams whose linebackers can release and close on runs very quickly and who have seriously talented defensive linemen will make Heupel's tempo offense useless.

Even if we did that, I dont think BG would have stopped dropping 8. Their gameplan was simple. Eliminate the huge plays, and keep the clock running, and keep us off the field. That's what they did. They dropped 8 to eliminate the large pass plays, knowing they would give up some rushing yards. But in doing so, they kept the clock moving and kept us from scoring quicker. Obviously, that will not always happen. But it was a solid gameplan from a BG squad that knew they weren't gonna win.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Even if we did that, I dont think BG would have stopped dropping 8. Their gameplan was simple. Eliminate the huge plays, and keep the clock running, and keep us off the field. That's what they did. They dropped 8 to eliminate the large pass plays, knowing they would give up some rushing yards. But in doing so, they kept the clock moving and kept us from scoring quicker. Obviously, that will not always happen. But it was a solid gameplan from a BG squad that knew they weren't gonna win.

Against a much more talented defense, Heupel's tempo is vulnerable to heavy pass coverage. We only averaged around 7yds/carry against Bowling Green rushing 3 guys, so what do you think we'll average against a much more talented SEC defense?

What BG did was expose how to get us out of the tempo offense....... and they did it easily. It's a problem with Heupel's offensive scheme because no QB will have much success throwing against the drop 8/prevent style coverage and our heavy run offense isn't potent enough to make even Bowling Green give up a bunch of monster runs.

We can agree Milton missed some passes and he did but Bowling Green stayed in a 3 man rush most of the game and we couldn't run it down THEIR throat effectively. Without really punishing the "prevent" pass defense with the run, Heupel's tempo offense fails.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

Here's a number comparison to chew on.

90 offensive plays, 23 passing plays. Right at 25% of all plays were pass attempts for an offensive scheme that is up-tempo, air-raid in its nature. Only 11 of those plays were successful.

There was a reason why pass attempts were limited, and we came out in the second half running the ball only. It's because we had to adjust and play what was working. Thank God the O-line got the push and created holes like it did. I - and the staff I assume - wasn't sure we could win if we had to pass the ball.

This is not an air raid offense, it’s very balanced. That’s a common misconception.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

Bowling Green only needed to not get boat raced and they accomplished that.

And yeah, Heupel started running but we never REALLY broke enough huge runs to force them to stop just defending the pass and only rushing 3. As much as folks have ragged on Milton, our backs should've been hitting 15-20yd runs regularly because the O Line had their way with the BG front and 8 guys were back.

My concern is BG, which has way less talent, managed to stop Heupel's tempo offense pretty easily with the 3 man front. We looked great in our first 2 drives....... then the drop 8/3 man rush made everything slow to a crawl.

If BG can do that so easily without great secondary talent, SEC teams whose linebackers can release and close on runs very quickly and who have seriously talented defensive linemen will make Heupel's tempo offense useless.

When you drop 8 you make it easy to get 5-10 yard runs but you have 5-6 defenders in the middle of the field to make the tackles before big runs. Many of the huge runs are with 7 in the box, once the RB gets past he typically only has to beat one guy

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

When you drop 8 you make it easy to get 5-10 yard runs but you have 5-6 defenders in the middle of the field to make the tackles before big runs. Many of the huge runs are with 7 in the box, once the RB gets past he typically only has to beat one guy

There's nothing in Heupel's scheme to really punish a team from dropping back AND it totally destroyed the tempo offense we had success with on our first possessions.

It's a flaw. It worked pretty well for BG with a really really terrible defense to control the tempo of the game. I'm not sure if you're aware, but we're not lucky enough to play really terrible defenses every week.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

There's nothing in Heupel's scheme to really punish a team from dropping back AND it totally destroyed the tempo offense we had success with on our first possessions.

It's a flaw. It worked pretty well for BG with a really really terrible defense to control the tempo of the game. I'm not sure if you're aware, but we're not lucky enough to play really terrible defenses every week.

1 There’s no team in the SEC that will drop 8 unless it’s 3d and 15. If they we will gash them for 5+ per
2 It’s extremely difficult to get open when D is dropping 8 in coverage. That’s why you run
3 We has the most vanilla playcalling imaginable (by design). Didn’t run a single RB screen, no designed plays for RBs, no rub routes. Very simple. The passing offense won’t be as easy to defend going forward. The routes they ran this week looked like flag football

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

1 There’s no team in the SEC that will drop 8 unless it’s 3d and 15. If they we will gash them for 5+ per
2 It’s extremely difficult to get open when D is dropping 8 in coverage. That’s why you run
3 We has the most vanilla playcalling imaginable (by design). Didn’t run a single RB screen, no designed plays for RBs, no rub routes. Very simple. The passing offense won’t be as easy to defend going forward. The routes they ran this week looked like flag football

That's been my point all along. Heupel says this offense is simple and it LOOKED simple.

We've got to have some sophistication in our response to defensive adjustments because our offense just sputtered when someone as weak as Bowling Green did little more than stick to a 3rd and long defense..... and we didn't take them to school for it.

Some of that IS execution by our QB and receivers but some of it was failure by the coaches to have plays in place to punish BG for dropping back.

If we don't do better in execution, we have to find other players.

If we don't do better in coaching adjustments, that's a far bigger problem.

 

[gunner]

Pass 1: Throws on 2nd down and 9 to Jacob Warren after rolling out. Nice throw, pass was good for 4 yards.
Pass 2: Throws on 3rd and 5, hits Jalen Hyatt on a comeback route, stayed in pocket, good for 6 yards and a first down.
Pass 3: Threw on 1st and 10 to Javonta Payton at the sideline. Accurate throw, good for 6 yards.
Pass 4: Very next play, short throw to Javonta Payton again on the sideline, good for first down and then some.
Pass 5: 2nd down throw down the left sideline incomplete. Threw it too high for receiver Hyatt. However, there was a personal foul that may have impacted the throw. Play was negated

Pass 6: Scrambles outside of the pocket, extends the play, hits Fant on the sideline, accurate throw. Good for 6 yards.
Pass 7: 1st and 10. Overthrows Cedric Tillman by at least 7 yards. Tillman beat the DBs, but still an overthrow by Milton.
Pass 8: Short throw to Hyatt. Accurate, but Hyatt tackled immediately. Good for about 6 yards.
Pass 9: 1st and 10. Has an absurd amount of time, throws a strike to Hyatt on the left sideline, Hyatt makes a man miss gets the 1st and more.

Pass 10: Scrambles outside of the pocket, gives a strike to Jalen Hyatt across the middle of the field, again, absurd amount of time to throw.
Pass 11: Pass complete to Velus Jones, however, threw it a bit behind him, which led to an early tackle, and not much positive yardage or space to run. (This play was negated by a holding penalty)
Pass 12: Completed pass to Cedric Tillman, hit him right in the numbers, good for 8 yards. (The next play was the one where Tiyon was in the middle of the field wide open jumping up and down waving his arms, but Joe instead took a sack, leading to 4th down.)

Pass 13: Threw an absolute bullet across the middle of the field to Hyatt. Hit Hyatt in between the numbers but it was too hot to handle and Hyatt dropped it.
Pass 14: 0:01 on the clock before the half. Threw ball out of bounds. Play was negated due to flag.
Pass 15: 0:01 on the clock before the half. Threw ball into end zone. Gave Tillman a chance to catch it, but a Hail Mary is just about getting it there. There were 4 white jerseys surrounding Tillman.

End of 1st Half

Pass 16: Has all day to throw on 1st and 10. Overthrows Tillman by maybe 1-2 yards on what would have been a touchdown.
Pass 17: Threw to the sideline to Javonta Payton. Pass was caught, but with a foot out of bounds, therefore incomplete. This led to a 4th down.
Pass 18: Overthrew Tillman again down the right sideline, however, pass interference was called. Tillman had a shot at it had the defense played it clean.
Pass 19: Had all day to throw, scrambled to the left, threw to Hyatt about 6 yards downfield, but Hyatt caught it out of bounds.
Pass 20: Scrambled right, threw to the end zone at Hyatt, accurate pass, but the DB played it well and swatted it.
Pass 21: Threw to the endzone to Tillman from about the 12 yard line. Threw it too far to the front shoulder instead of the back shoulder. Jordan Rodgers commented about throwing it too far ahead. Incomplete.
Pass 22: Hit Hyatt perfectly right in front of the end zone, most likely would have been a touchdown. Hyatt dropped it, and he knew it too.
Pass 23: Threw to Velus Jones across midfield. Pass hit dirt, appeared too low. Incomplete. However, pass interference was called, so it's hard to blame it on either Milton or Jones.
Pass 24: Absolutely perfect 40 yard strike to Tillman in the end zone. Did a good job buying time in the pocket, and beautiful throw.

I realize all of this is basically my interpretation of his performance. I can't speak to how plays were supposed to go, or even which receivers were open that he missed, since TV didn't always show that.

But when I look at the passes he actually threw, he had an overthrow to Tillman that would have been a touchdown had he scaled back just a smidge (Tillman had his man beat). He had at least two throws that were impacted by pass interference or a personal foul. He had two perfect passes that were dropped by Hyatt. He overthrew Tillman by a yard or 2. He threw passes too far to the sidelines, just enough to where the receiver had to step out of bounds.

I can't comment on his rushing ability either. I don't know what plays were designed runs, and what he improvised. And I know there were some plays where he missed open receivers.

But, after watching it all a second time, I can't see where the hate is coming from. He had about two overthrows that could have been TDs. If he places that ball 3 feet behind Tillman on his back shoulder instead of his front, he would have had another TD. And had Hyatt not dropped the one on the 3 yard line, he would have had another.

Milton could have easily had a very different stat line in this game. Initially I was disappointed in his performance. But after watching it again? His throws were miles above what we were used to seeing from JG. He was throwing the ball accurately for the most part, and when he was off, he was not off by much. And aside from the fumble, he took care of the football. I didn't see any passes that I thought were "dangerous" passes, i.e. throwing into double coverage.

It's obvious he has a connection with Tillman, and if that timing and connection gets stronger, holy crap, that could be magic.

Milton won't have all day to throw like he did today in other games. But I think that may help him, as sometimes he took too long to make decisions, and then went for more ambitious throws than he should have.

My point? I don't think it was as bad as it seemed. He threw well. Not perfectly. But well. The receivers need to step up their game. And it's also obvious we tried hard to establish the running game.

I think it'll be alright. Next week will show us much more about who this team is. GBO. So nice to see the Orange and White back in Neyland again.

My thoughts after watching the game live was it wasn’t just Milton, it was the entire passing game that was out of sync after the first quarter. The WR’s dropped too many passes, the line missed too many blocks, and Milton missed too many deep balls. The entire passing game was inconsistent. After watching the replay again, I cam to he same conclusion and I think the Vols can win with Milton if they correct his deep balls. Additionally, I noticed that Ramel Keyton and Jimmy Calloway didn’t play in this game both we’re starting WRs at some time last season. It’s obvious the Vols could have used them more in this game.

 

[jeff1vol]

The tough part is that things that Milton cannot do, cant be coached. Ie... pocket presence, field vision and accuracy. Either you have em or you dont.