Joe Milton showing improvement

#76
#76
RDU VOL#14 said:
To be fair, Joe has all the physical tools, but he’s yet to show that he can do it consistently. Last years Pitt game and the ending of the Ole Miss game are hard memories to erase. Hopefully he can continue to look the way he did when called upon. I think we may need him at some point this year during big moments.
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I know you are just communicating the same thing everyone else does regarding him but I can’t help but think how ironic it is when people continue to talk about how talented he is. Playing quarterback is similar to being a point guard in basketball. The ability to see angles and lanes developing is what makes for a great quarterback. As for the physical tools… Probably 10,000+ kids come out of high school every year with the ability to throw a ball accurately 50+ yards. It’s the ability to process lots of information and see those angles that truly determines whether a kid can succeed or not. Milton has proven to be poor at multiple colleges now. But because he’s 2 inches taller and can throw a ball 10 yards farther than the average player he continues to get opportunities. Amd that extra little bit is really meaningless. Yet even a quarterback guru and great all around offensive mind like Josh Heuple falls victim to seeing that little bit of (unnecessary) extra physical capability. It’s mind boggling that he choose Milton over hooker having had the opportunity to see them both in live action.
 
#77
#77
vols 30 said:
I get your point. You think Milton has turned it around. The mistakes he made his first 2 years of college ball are behind him. Everyone should be singing his praises.

My point is let's slow down a bit and see what he does when it matters. He was under no pressure Saturday and he didn't throw any passes that required any touch.
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You’re just a a hater!
 
#78
#78
chattavol420 said:
I know you are just communicating the same thing everyone else does regarding him but I can’t help but think how ironic it is when people continue to talk about how talented he is. Playing quarterback is similar to being a point guard in basketball. The ability to see angles and lanes developing is what makes for a great quarterback. As for the physical tools… Probably 10,000+ kids come out of high school every year with the ability to throw a ball accurately 50+ yards. It’s the ability to process lots of information and see those angles that truly determines whether a kid can succeed or not. Milton has proven to be poor at multiple colleges now. But because he’s 2 inches taller and can throw a ball 10 yards farther than the average player he continues to get opportunities. Amd that extra little bit is really meaningless. Yet even a quarterback guru and great all around offensive mind like Josh Heuple falls victim to seeing that little bit of (unnecessary) extra physical capability. It’s mind boggling that he choose Milton over hooker having had the opportunity to see them both in live action.
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It’s not just the people on this board talking about Milton’s potential talent. You hear broadcasters and sports analysts say it as well. Just as you alluded to, Heupel is a great offensive mind. He sees the potential in Milton. Just because you don’t means nothing. As far as playing Milton over Hooker? You can call it a mistake if you want but hindsight is always 20/20. It seems you are another that just doesn’t want to give credit where it is due. Sad.
 
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#81
#81
CAVPUT said:
Glad he's improving, but I really don't want to see him starting for UT this year.
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Well..., I don't think anybody said anything about him starting this year. Just said he was improved. Got factions of No Joe fans whose 'tude is yes:
1662636386125.png or 1662636444418.png
 
#82
#82
chattavol420 said:
I know you are just communicating the same thing everyone else does regarding him but I can’t help but think how ironic it is when people continue to talk about how talented he is. Playing quarterback is similar to being a point guard in basketball. The ability to see angles and lanes developing is what makes for a great quarterback. As for the physical tools… Probably 10,000+ kids come out of high school every year with the ability to throw a ball accurately 50+ yards. It’s the ability to process lots of information and see those angles that truly determines whether a kid can succeed or not. Milton has proven to be poor at multiple colleges now. But because he’s 2 inches taller and can throw a ball 10 yards farther than the average player he continues to get opportunities. Amd that extra little bit is really meaningless. Yet even a quarterback guru and great all around offensive mind like Josh Heuple falls victim to seeing that little bit of (unnecessary) extra physical capability. It’s mind boggling that he choose Milton over hooker having had the opportunity to see them both in live action.
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PSSTT! That doggone Belichick choose Drew Bledshoe over Tom Brady, what a nitwith, right?

That dimwit, Fulmer starting Colquitt and Helton ahead of Peyton, grrr, right?
Warner starting ahead of Bugler, Meredith over Morton, Morton over Staubach, Rote over Starr, Montana over Young, Favre over Rodgers, what the heck were those know-nothing coaches doing??? I mean, coaches never make game personnel mistakes, right? But if and when they do, they should castrated, drawn and quartered, and fed to Xenomorph. A fan who never saw the practices, and indicators of the QBs knows more than any coach who day after day watch players and decides who starts based on those direct observation - knows better than any brain=warped coach. you betcha.
 
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#83
#83
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
Milton had one incompletion Thursday to the TE in the end zone. Some here believe it was catchable.
I knew Wilt Chamberlain. I watched him play. I assure you that Wilt Chamberlain would of caught that pass in the endzone. 😁
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I did not know the man, but did sit court side in La and watch him play. (a highlight of my sports following life). Yes he could have caught that pass or done most anything else he so chose in the pursuit of an athletic challenge. Likely the best athlete ever.
 
#85
#85
Kicker82 said:
He has the same problem he always has…he throws every pass like a fastball. He’s got running ability and arm strength but his accuracy is horrible
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Another inaccurate generalization about his efforts. Go look at that pass out of the backfield to Sampson. Perfectly timed and dropped in there. Even his overly criticized pass to the TE in the endzone was not close to full velocity or it would have sailed into the stands, but it barely missed the checkerboards and hit in front of and then contacted the goalpost support. Regardless of how much he has or has not improved at least deal in supportable facts when making declarative statements. Including the accuracy issue, he was 7 for 8 with the pass in the endzone I have shown hiding the receivers left hand with no elevation and the perfect pass he threw to the endzone on the penalty play on the very next play to a receiver who would have come down in bounds if not for a sterling play by two defenders. It is all out there to see on ESPN replay for free. View it provide me the errors of my analysis. One game does not a career make, but is part of any trend analysis.
 
#86
#86
GUNTERSVOL said:
Another inaccurate generalization about his efforts. Go look at that pass out of the backfield to Sampson. Perfectly timed and dropped in there. Even his overly criticized pass to the TE in the endzone was not close to full velocity or it would have sailed into the stands, but it barely missed the checkerboards and hit in front of and then contacted the goalpost support. Regardless of how much he has or has not improved at least deal in supportable facts when making declarative statements. Including the accuracy issue, he was 7 for 8 with the pass in the endzone I have shown hiding the receivers left hand with no elevation and the perfect pass he threw to the endzone on the penalty play on the very next play to a receiver who would have come down in bounds if not for a sterling play by two defenders. It is all out there to see on ESPN replay for free. View it provide me the errors of my analysis. One game does not a career make, but is part of any trend analysis.
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Milton looked really good against Ball State and his stats prove it. Big difference from what we saw early last year.
 
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#87
#87
GUNTERSVOL said:
For the record, please go back to the 2:45 mark and let's avoid another round of revisionist history. Watch ALL the replays and you will find that he did make the right read, he needed the height to clear a leaping number 10 (maybe 40) at the line, and if you freeze the play you will see another receiver who had a 1 foot vertical jump and on the replay from the field side replay the ball is clearly level with his hands immediately after he missed it. Continue on to the endzone replay and it confirms the lack of elevation by the receiver, and the ball clearly within inches of his fingers. On that replay compare the elevation of the referenced defender to our receivers. Any characterization that the ball sailed WAY OVER THE HEAD is simply not true. Just like the RAN OUT OF BOUNDS myth last year.

A softer pass would have been better for sure, but it was not a bad pass and was DEFINITELY catchable with normal elevation by a 6'5" TE. Use stop action and it is easy to see that it was catchable, and if the TE continued his route and not turned around so early it would have been even easier, and the ball barely cleared the endline and bounced in front of and bounced off the bottom of the goalpost. So it was not a missile over his head.

Someone from the other side please review the replays and tell me where I have not spoken the truth. And this was his LONE incomplete pass.

On top of that on the next play he made a tremendous read and pass on the penalty play down there, threw a perfect ball to the receiver at the sideline in the endzone, who made an equally impressive catch but was not allowed to come down in the endzone to a great defensive effort by two of their guys. Gravity alone and that would have been a highlight play, maybe on Sports Center. Validate that analysis as well. As it was the receiver's foot was within a foot of the ground.

edited to add to screenshots. Notice lack of elevation and proximity of the ball to his hands.

View attachment 487039

View attachment 487040
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While I agree with your overall point, the throw you highlight in your pictures was not just a bit high but was behind the TE, who was running across the field. With the velocity of the pass this made it a very difficult catch. The question is, as this was against a zone defense, should the receiver have "sat down" in the open spot or continued his route across the field? Milton may have thrown the ball where the TE should have pulled up on his route. The only real "fact" one can draw from this play is Milton and Salmon were not on the same page. We missed an opportunity for a TD for sure but without knowing what was expected of the receiver in that situation, we can't just say unequivocally that Milton missed a wide open TE.
 
#88
#88
WoodsmanVol said:
PSSTT! That doggone Belichick choose Drew Bledshoe over Tom Brady, what a nitwith, right?

That dimwit, Fulmer starting Colquitt and Helton ahead of Peyton, grrr, right?
Warner starting ahead of Bugler, Meredith over Morton, Morton over Staubach, Rote over Starr, Montana over Young, Favre over Rodgers, what the heck were those know-nothing coaches doing??? I mean, coaches never make game personnel mistakes, right? But if and when they do, they should castrated, drawn and quartered, and fed to Xenomorph. A fan who never saw the practices, and indicators of the QBs knows more than any coach who day after day watch players and decides who starts based on those direct observation - knows better than any brain=warped coach. you betcha.
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Almost none of your examples are apples to apples. You used mostly NFL situations where there was an established franchise quarterback being paid millions of dollars ahead of a quarterback who eventually took over and proved to be a great player in their own right. But this situation was different. Heuple chose Milton without ever letting anyone else get any game reps. It was a mistake. He has done a lot of things right but he miss handled that competition… Which honestly was his first huge decision. Hopefully the next time he has to make a starting qb decision he’ll allow for more of a complete to play out and be a little slower to make the decision.
 
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#89
#89
1974Vol said:
While I agree with your overall point, the throw you highlight in your pictures was not just a bit high but was behind the TE, who was running across the field. With the velocity of the pass this made it a very difficult catch. The question is, as this was against a zone defense, should the receiver have "sat down" in the open spot or continued his route across the field? Milton may have thrown the ball where the TE should have pulled up on his route. The only real "fact" one can draw from this play is Milton and Salmon were not on the same page. We missed an opportunity for a TD for sure but without knowing what was expected of the receiver in that situation, we can't just say unequivocally that Milton missed a wide open TE.
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I never said it was a perfect pass, route decision of the receiver is what it is, BUT.... as I posted earlier, the ball was about 9 feet at the LOS going above the well elevated LB's reach, and barely got out of the endzone bouncing on the big white border and into the GoalPost upright. How much velocity could it have with that arc? The pass went between the TE's upraised hands, and even with his right foot still in contact with the ground the ball was even with the fingers of his left hand as evidenced by the following screenshot. How else are his fingers blocked by the ball with this camera angle? Not great but catchable with normal elevation by a TE is it not? Not a physics expert but still!!!!

1662685990076.png
 
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#90
#90
WoodsmanVol said:
For fans who persist in disliking a cup of joe, they got served some well-brewed, whether they liked it or not. Source: QB Milton ‘played awesome’, showed off improvement in Vols’ opener
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wonder if the JG/Dormady syndrome doesn’t have something to do with the premise that because Joe had a rough time of it LY that he can’t get better. I’m betting he’s our starter next year and it will probably be the best decision while our 5* gets ready. He played pretty well late last year and looked good last week
 
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#91
#91
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#92
#92
chattavol420 said:
Almost none of your examples are apples to apples. You used mostly NFL situations where there was an established franchise quarterback being paid millions of dollars ahead of a quarterback who eventually took over and proved to be a great player in their own right. But this situation was different. Heuple chose Milton without ever letting anyone else get any game reps. It was a mistake. He has done a lot of things right but he miss handled that competition… Which honestly was his first huge decision. Hopefully the next time he has to make a starting qb decision he’ll allow for more of a complete to play out and be a little slower to make the decision.
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Here you go chatta, it's a bit used but still delicious.
1662730401773.png
 
#93
#93
chattavol420 said:
I know you are just communicating the same thing everyone else does regarding him but I can’t help but think how ironic it is when people continue to talk about how talented he is. Playing quarterback is similar to being a point guard in basketball. The ability to see angles and lanes developing is what makes for a great quarterback. As for the physical tools… Probably 10,000+ kids come out of high school every year with the ability to throw a ball accurately 50+ yards. It’s the ability to process lots of information and see those angles that truly determines whether a kid can succeed or not. Milton has proven to be poor at multiple colleges now. But because he’s 2 inches taller and can throw a ball 10 yards farther than the average player he continues to get opportunities. Amd that extra little bit is really meaningless. Yet even a quarterback guru and great all around offensive mind like Josh Heuple falls victim to seeing that little bit of (unnecessary) extra physical capability. It’s mind boggling that he choose Milton over hooker having had the opportunity to see them both in live action.
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I think he picked Milton based on his physical prowess because he thinks he thought he could fix the mental side. I think he was correct but not in that short amount of time that was required. I thought he looked very relaxed out there last weekend and he made all the right options. That is encouraging because I guarantee he will be filling in temporarily at some point this season. I don't think the team can win 8 or 9 games without him.
 
#94
#94
njvols said:
wonder if the JG/Dormady syndrome doesn’t have something to do with the premise that because Joe had a rough time of it LY that he can’t get better. I’m betting he’s our starter next year and it will probably be the best decision while our 5* gets ready. He played pretty well late last year and looked good last week
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I have no problem with any fan taking any position on any player, but as you can see, I have a big problem with folks jumping on a position with declarative statements to support narratives they piled on to that are just not true. We heard about his cowardly run out of bounds since last year, until somebody posted the clip of that last play, safety was just to his left but he did not take it. Stating he did not throw a prayer pass is one thing, to say he did not because he cowardly stepped out of bounds is not.

In this thread there are multiple blanket statements that he has no touch and the pass to the endzone was uncatchable is not accurate either. It was not caught, but nobody knows if the receiver properly ran the route or not, or why he did not elevate, but the ball was still reachable by many receivers we have available. But on top of that the ball went over the under elevated receiver 3-4 yards in the endzone and maybe hit the ground 8-10 yards later. One of his lasers could have sailed over the official's head and made the third row. Go check it out. Making it easier on the receiver would have been better but their 23 would have made a floater a bit risky. Somewhere in the middle. But I bet those guys catch jugs gun passes with more heat routinely.

Two more screen shots. The first to show why a Tebow lob was not a good idea due to 23 in a dead sprint to the spot. The second to show that the velocity let the ball hit the field just beyond the endzone about 2 feet into the white border. Check out the drop from the first shot to the second shot. Velocity????

1662730575612.png

1662731016612.png
 
#95
#95
cgrish said:
Yes he did, but was really not under pressure. He came in when the game was well in hand. but i was impressed with his game. looked much better than last year..
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I bet he was under a ton of pressure.
He knows what's being said about him, not wanting to sail the ball miles over guys, him wanting to prove he can play when the lights come on.
His face and actions after that long TD sure look like the burden was lifted off his shoulders.
 
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#96
#96
savannahfan said:
Setting all above yea and nay support of lack there of aside,,,, yes he looked better. BUT I have as my first and most dominant memory of the Milton time, a sure over the middle wide open pass for a TD that was "sailed way over the head of the receiver, much like last year...
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Good job. Completely ignore the ones that hit the mark. He had a real good day
 
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#97
#97
SpaceCoastVol said:
Good job. Completely ignore the ones that hit the mark. He had a real good day
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I understand that and even stated in response to another post that he had a really good game and I would not be surprised to see him as starter before season's end. HOWEVER, in his most excitable moment so far this season, he overthrew a bullet where a little more touch would have done the job. Just makes me wonder what to expect when he is really under the gun next time.
 
#99
#99
savannahfan said:
I understand that and even stated in response to another post that he had a really good game and I would not be surprised to see him as starter before season's end. HOWEVER, in his most excitable moment so far this season, he overthrew a bullet where a little more touch would have done the job. Just makes me wonder what to expect when he is really under the gun next time.
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A soft pass might have gotten picked. Watch it again.
 
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