JG helping out Shrout

sjt18

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Hey he has never let facts get in his way discussing qbs. Why start now?😂🙃🙃🤣
Unlike you... when an informed poster corrects me on FACTS... I'll accept their correction. And no, not the half-truths you try.

I thought it was something like Elite 11 but instead it was a camp with former NFL players as counselors. That might even be more impressive.
 
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sjt18

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Those numbers are all while JG is getting put in the dirt every play. If they had a "completion % while getting smashed by a defender" stat line, JG would undoubtably be at the top of the list.
If JG made good pre-snap reads, read coverages well post-snap, and got the ball out faster... he wouldn't have been put in the dirty "every play". Not that you exaggerated or anything.

Yes, JG needs to read defenses pre-snap better. That's common knowledge.
Really? You need to have a conversation with k-town and a couple of others. They're sure he needs no improvement in that department.

I'm sure coach Chaney is emphasizing that. JG has all the tools to be a great quarterback in the SEC next year. All the hate on him is ridiculous.
And this... is why you can't have a reasonable give and take conversation about him. There are few if any here who "hate" him. You acknowledged a valid criticism... do you "hate" him?

No, he's not Tua Tagovailoa. He's not going to be a heisman frontrunner. But he can win us some ball games. I think he can be every bit as good if not better than Jake Fromm and some of the others. Another year in the system learning under a legit coaching staff and a QB guru, with an improved offensive line...Instead of all the hate, I feel like he should be on the breakout player to watch list.
JG is physically gifted. He's tough. He gets hit whether his fault or the OL... and gets back up. But he has issues that won't be resolved by anyone except HIM improving. If he doesn't get better with reads and faster with his decisions it isn't reasonable to think ANY OL will give him the time required to make plays. If he doesn't throw to the middle of the field and hit hot routes, the pressure he gets from blitzes and stunts will only get worse regardless of what the OL does. This isn't "hate"... it is "hope" that he becomes the player he can be.
 

sjt18

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Who has said the backups are trash?
You... just softer since you don't consider them serious threats to JG right now. If JG missed a few games and one of them performed well enough to keep the job... you'd trash them like you did Dormady after he beat JG out.

Once again they will release a ranking of projected starters. That will focus solely on JG. Then bash away. Until then just face reality.
I do. I have given specific, objective criticisms of JG... and you have closed your eyes and screamed as loud as you can.

Bryant has a four star backup and also went to a NC. Jg is a better passer. Bryant is a better runner with better backups and more wins. Not surprising Mizzou is higher.
Bryant is at Mizzou because they literally had no one with the potential to become serviceable... which would matter a lot more if this article wasn't focused primarily on the starters.

And you STILL haven't dealt with the FACT that the writer said JG needed "substantial" improvement. Instead you keep trying to divert attention to back ups...

You haven't dealt with the FACT that they only rank new starters below JG.

You haven't dealt with the fact that 3 new starters are ranked about him.


I don't even put a ton of stock in these types of rankings... but it does expose you.
 

82_VOL_83

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You don't even accept the meaning of words when it comes to maintaining your delusion, huh? I did not "lie". All they said about the backups was that they were inexperienced. Your own quote confirms that.

Neither is a great QB... yet Wilson is ranked ahead of your idol.

But according to you it is about the whole QB group... and he doesn't have a credible back up.

Nope... and by your definition of "lying"... you just lied.

Another "lie", they're too inexperienced to compete for the starting job. That doesn't mean one won't be a "viable backup"... which you put in quotes although it isn't quoted. Another "lie" by you.


And yet another "lie" by you. It isn't to make JG look bad but to make you look like the abject fool you are.

FWIW, these things are about worthless and are seldom accurate. If JG overcomes the problems THAT MANY OF US HAVE consistently told you about (and you've denied), he has a chance to be a top 5 QB in the SEC. He has the receivers. Chaney is as good as they come. It sounds like the OL has taken a nice step forward. If he shows "substantial improvement"... the O will surprise people.
@sjt18 Excellent post, helped it a little.
 

k-town_king

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You... just softer since you don't consider them serious threats to JG right now. If JG missed a few games and one of them performed well enough to keep the job... you'd trash them like you did Dormady after he beat JG out.

I do. I have given specific, objective criticisms of JG... and you have closed your eyes and screamed as loud as you can.


Bryant is at Mizzou because they literally had no one with the potential to become serviceable... which would matter a lot more if this article wasn't focused primarily on the starters.

And you STILL haven't dealt with the FACT that the writer said JG needed "substantial" improvement. Instead you keep trying to divert attention to back ups...

You haven't dealt with the FACT that they only rank new starters below JG.

You haven't dealt with the fact that 3 new starters are ranked about him.


I don't even put a ton of stock in these types of rankings... but it does expose you.
VolQuest.com - Night and day? What to make of Pruitt's bullish comments on Guarantano

"I think the game has really slowed down for Jarrett. He’s played a lot of ball. He’s taken a lot of hits. I think we all understand that really doesn’t bother him. I think he’s got a pretty good understanding for what we’re trying to do. He knows how to prepare. I think it’s been really positive. That’s how the quarterback position should be."

Pruitt doesn't agree.

I have never said the backups were "trash." Just not as good as JG. They still aren't. I also didn't consider anyone a threat to start except JG last year. Most people knew he was our guy. We had a few delusional holdouts like you.

I have been consistent. I don't think Shrout plays here ever. I think Maurer will be good if he beats out Bailey. They are good prospects.

He said needs substantial improvement TO CONTEND FOR THE SEC EAST. Not just needs substantial improvement to be a college qb. Huge difference. I agree. If we contend its because he had a Heisman type year. For that he will need another huge leap like he took from freshman to sophomore.


THEY ARE NOT RANKING STARTERS. I guess you can't read. Bryant is there because the next Peyton took his spot. JG is a much better passer than Bryant too.

There is a reason the body of each evaluation say HOW THE QB ROOM LOOKS then proceeds to talk about the overall qb situation.

Once again proving you have no interest in a fair evaluation of our qb. Just more agenda driven drivel.
 

82_VOL_83

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You... just softer since you don't consider them serious threats to JG right now. If JG missed a few games and one of them performed well enough to keep the job... you'd trash them like you did Dormady after he beat JG out.

I do. I have given specific, objective criticisms of JG... and you have closed your eyes and screamed as loud as you can.


Bryant is at Mizzou because they literally had no one with the potential to become serviceable... which would matter a lot more if this article wasn't focused primarily on the starters.

And you STILL haven't dealt with the FACT that the writer said JG needed "substantial" improvement. Instead you keep trying to divert attention to back ups...

You haven't dealt with the FACT that they only rank new starters below JG.

You haven't dealt with the fact that 3 new starters are ranked about him.


I don't even put a ton of stock in these types of rankings... but it does expose you.
ROFL
 

Vol423

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Also of course you lied about what they said @sjt18

About the backups

UT
"Tennessee's other signal callers on roster are far too inexperienced to seriously challenge Guarantano for QB1 honors during the spring. "

UK
"Mark Stoops could put a shorter leash on Wilson in 2019 with Gunnar Hoak continuing his development as a viable backup. Hoak graduates this spring and could choose to transfer to another program and play immediately if he feels he's too far behind Wilson once spring drills are over."

Bryant went to a NC.

All the others have multiple four or five star QBs.

We have JG and two inexperienced three stars that are not considered "viable backups."

LYING like usual to make the starting qb look bad. Pretty pathetic.
Why bother? The starting QB does a good job of that all on his own. Guarantano is a good quarterback as long as you have no real interest in scoring points.
 

Vol423

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247 has UT ranked 11th. And despite k-town's protestations... the starter or projected starter is the focus. All three of the teams listed behind UT have new starters. So UT is ranked worst among teams with returning starters. That's not the worst. They also rank two teams ahead of UT that don't have established starters- MSU and Auburn.... if you don't count Mizzou who starts a guy I really like... but who was ultimately beaten out by a Fr at Clemson.

It takes some really sophisticated self-deception to convince one's self this isn't a statement on JG.

I HOPE he will put in the hard work and he and Chaney can turn it around. I HOPE he embarrasses these writers. OTOH, this IS a statement on his performance so far.
Who are you trying to kid? Everyone knows that sports writers rank team positions like QB based on the perceived value of incoming freshman 3rd and 4th string QB’s that likely won’t take a single snap in a real game for at least 2 years.
 

DustyRockSolid

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Here's a "fact" you and he failed to acknowledge... "For the Vols to be a factor in the East, he'll (JG) need to show substantial improvement this fall as he enters Year 2 as Tennessee's full-time starter."

Not "some" improvement. Not "modest" improvement. Not improvement by someone else... Not improvement by the other two guys (though that would obviously help)... Not the minor, negligible tweaks you've grudgingly proposed... "substantial" improvement from JG.

And another thing you conveniently ignore while still claiming I "lie" about JG. I have repeatedly said things like he doesn't throw to the middle of the field, does not hit hot routes, and does not make good pre-snap reads. I told you several weeks back that Chaney would force him to do it or else replace him. You denied that the problems I pointed to even existed. Then lo and behold... JG has an interview where he talks about being "given the freedom" to make hot reads, line calls, use more of the field, etc... the things I said he either could not or was not allowed to do... and you said he was doing. JG spun it positive as he should have. But make no mistake, the bar has been raised... Chaney isn't going to protect him from mistakes like the last two OC's did. Flip or fly.
As far as I know... everyone, including K-town thinks JG needs to improve. Pretty sure we all agree that the more JG improves the better the offense will be.
 

DustyRockSolid

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The bold above is ONLY JG. Neither of the other two guys have played a CFB down.

The "quarterback room" when you have a returning starter who is anticipated to start... is a measure of what they think of the starter. Several of the evals didn't even mention the back ups. Some ranked ahead of UT like Mizzou have a worse back up situation than UT. You are attempting to deflect how much of this is focused on their opinion of JG. If they thought he were as good as Bryant... UT wouldn't have the lowest ranked "QB room" with a returning starter.

FWIW, both of UT's back ups were Elite 11 QBs where they earned high praise. So their "potential" on paper is mid-pack at worst. They aren't "trash" like you guys suggest in your attempts to deny this has anything to do with JG.
Can you show me where anyone called JT or Maurer trash? I know I havent. I don't think Shrout or Maurer start over JG but I certainly don't think they are trash. I don't recall anyone else saying it either.
 

Devo182

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Can't believe anyone is even wasting time dissecting the 247 article. It's by Brad freakin Crawford lol, not exactly Bill Connelly or Peyton Manning...you didn't have to read even 1 spot further to get in a great laugh...TERRY WILSON lmao!

No reasoning or actual analysis anywhere to be seen, just SDS-style clickbait. If you want meaningful rankings, maybe try PFF or Football Outsiders, not Brad... and why even post an SDS "article"? Exposed yourself a bit there...
 

VOLFan65

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If JG made good pre-snap reads, read coverages well post-snap, and got the ball out faster... he wouldn't have been put in the dirty "every play". Not that you exaggerated or anything.

Really? You need to have a conversation with k-town and a couple of others. They're sure he needs no improvement in that department.

And this... is why you can't have a reasonable give and take conversation about him. There are few if any here who "hate" him. You acknowledged a valid criticism... do you "hate" him?


JG is physically gifted. He's tough. He gets hit whether his fault or the OL... and gets back up. But he has issues that won't be resolved by anyone except HIM improving. If he doesn't get better with reads and faster with his decisions it isn't reasonable to think ANY OL will give him the time required to make plays. If he doesn't throw to the middle of the field and hit hot routes, the pressure he gets from blitzes and stunts will only get worse regardless of what the OL does. This isn't "hate"... it is "hope" that he becomes the player he can be.
1) I can't speak for everyone in Knoxville. I agree that there are some in K-town that think he can do no wrong. He needs to improve, plain and simple. That said, Coach Pruitt has praised him these spring practices, and Pruitt isn't one that seems to be given to "coach speak" as much as others. He seems to tell it like it is. Whether we like it or not.

2) You asked me if I hated JG, yet I just posted a post defending him....No comment.

3) I understand what you mean when you say he personally needs to make improvements. On the other hand, how much of that was Helton not putting our QB in a situation to succeed? His playing-calling was... err...underwhelming to say the least. Do you really think that JG isn't going to benefit under the tutelage and play-calling of an experienced SEC offensive coordinator and QB developer? It's not a situation where it's all on the player, and it's not all on the coach. It's a both-and. Did Helton teach him the right ways to read a defense during practice? Did JG listen to him? Some things we just don't know.
 

sjt18

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1) I can't speak for everyone in Knoxville. I agree that there are some in K-town that think he can do no wrong. He needs to improve, plain and simple. That said, Coach Pruitt has praised him these spring practices, and Pruitt isn't one that seems to be given to "coach speak" as much as others. He seems to tell it like it is. Whether we like it or not.
Not doubting you whatsoever but do you have the links? Usually there is a link to every press statement the HC gives but I've only seen one so far. Pruitt is pretty deadpan... but it the praise of JG wasn't over the top even considering.

2) You asked me if I hated JG, yet I just posted a post defending him....No comment.
But also criticizing him in a fair way. Maybe I have a more critical eye... but I don't think I've been unfair or hateful at all toward him. However some here pretty consistently accuse me of "hate". The only thing I "hate" is losing. And while I'd rather pull for players I "like"... I'd much rather have players that win.

For what little it is worth... I don't find any reason to dislike JG... and good reason to respect him. I didn't like his tantrum at GT. But he appears to have worked hard to overcome that since.

3) I understand what you mean when you say he personally needs to make improvements. On the other hand, how much of that was Helton not putting our QB in a situation to succeed? His playing-calling was... err...underwhelming to say the least.
That cuts both ways. An OC can't call plays he doesn't trust his players and particularly the QB to execute. Since two different OC's have similarly "managed" JG away from certain throws and responsibilities... I want to see the proof that he can do it. These aren't things you take away from your QB unless you have to... they're too valuable in making your O harder to defend.

Do you really think that JG isn't going to benefit under the tutelage and play-calling of an experienced SEC offensive coordinator and QB developer?
I've always liked Chaney. I've said many times that he will demand JG rise to his expectations or he'll cut his losses and work with someone else. I want the Vols to win and the shortest route is without question for the lights to come on for JG. He will more quickly than most OC's find JG's ceiling in all facets of playing the position

If Chaney is allowed to speak and talks JG up... and especially in an overwhelming way compared to the others... I'll feel a lot better. If they throw effectively to the middle of the field in the O&W game... that will help too. If he makes most of his throws as soon as he plants his foot on his drop... I'll REALLY feel good.

It's not a situation where it's all on the player, and it's not all on the coach. It's a both-and. Did Helton teach him the right ways to read a defense during practice? Did JG listen to him? Some things we just don't know.
True. But I would lean toward the player's ability since he's played for guys who were more successful with other QB's.

It is awfully convenient for some to blame Helton but he has a credible resume. Prior to his association with Jones, Larry Scott had a good image as a quality coach. DeBord had a ton of experience at multiple levels with a lot of good coaches. What we know is JG had an opportunity to work with these 3 coaches and ended last season with some issues that most QB's master in their first couple of years. What concerns me most knowing how hard he works is that it could be a lack of ability. Some guys just don't have the ability to "see" and make decisions quickly just like some guys can't throw a ball like JG. Some develop slower so JG may have also been hurt by Jones' rush to get him on the field.
 

VOLFan65

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Not doubting you whatsoever but do you have the links? Usually there is a link to every press statement the HC gives but I've only seen one so far. Pruitt is pretty deadpan... but it the praise of JG wasn't over the top even considering.

But also criticizing him in a fair way. Maybe I have a more critical eye... but I don't think I've been unfair or hateful at all toward him. However some here pretty consistently accuse me of "hate". The only thing I "hate" is losing. And while I'd rather pull for players I "like"... I'd much rather have players that win.

For what little it is worth... I don't find any reason to dislike JG... and good reason to respect him. I didn't like his tantrum at GT. But he appears to have worked hard to overcome that since.

That cuts both ways. An OC can't call plays he doesn't trust his players and particularly the QB to execute. Since two different OC's have similarly "managed" JG away from certain throws and responsibilities... I want to see the proof that he can do it. These aren't things you take away from your QB unless you have to... they're too valuable in making your O harder to defend.

I've always liked Chaney. I've said many times that he will demand JG rise to his expectations or he'll cut his losses and work with someone else. I want the Vols to win and the shortest route is without question for the lights to come on for JG. He will more quickly than most OC's find JG's ceiling in all facets of playing the position

If Chaney is allowed to speak and talks JG up... and especially in an overwhelming way compared to the others... I'll feel a lot better. If they throw effectively to the middle of the field in the O&W game... that will help too. If he makes most of his throws as soon as he plants his foot on his drop... I'll REALLY feel good.


True. But I would lean toward the player's ability since he's played for guys who were more successful with other QB's.

It is awfully convenient for some to blame Helton but he has a credible resume. Prior to his association with Jones, Larry Scott had a good image as a quality coach. DeBord had a ton of experience at multiple levels with a lot of good coaches. What we know is JG had an opportunity to work with these 3 coaches and ended last season with some issues that most QB's master in their first couple of years. What concerns me most knowing how hard he works is that it could be a lack of ability. Some guys just don't have the ability to "see" and make decisions quickly just like some guys can't throw a ball like JG. Some develop slower so JG may have also been hurt by Jones' rush to get him on the field.
I agree with you on your points there.

We definitely need him to have a big year. I think he's primed for one. Like I said, I think he's on the breakout player to watch list for us. If it doesnt happen this year, then it 100% is on him. He has the arm talent, he has a bigger O-line (jury still out on technique, but the signs are pointing to improvement there), a proven coordinator, a year longer in the program, and some solid offensive weapons returning. Got to make it happen.
 

Vol423

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1) I can't speak for everyone in Knoxville. I agree that there are some in K-town that think he can do no wrong. He needs to improve, plain and simple. That said, Coach Pruitt has praised him these spring practices, and Pruitt isn't one that seems to be given to "coach speak" as much as others. He seems to tell it like it is. Whether we like it or not.

2) You asked me if I hated JG, yet I just posted a post defending him....No comment.

3) I understand what you mean when you say he personally needs to make improvements. On the other hand, how much of that was Helton not putting our QB in a situation to succeed? His playing-calling was... err...underwhelming to say the least. Do you really think that JG isn't going to benefit under the tutelage and play-calling of an experienced SEC offensive coordinator and QB developer? It's not a situation where it's all on the player, and it's not all on the coach. It's a both-and. Did Helton teach him the right ways to read a defense during practice? Did JG listen to him? Some things we just don't know.
The new offensive coordinator (having to learn the new guy’s system) will be the primary excuse used this time next year as to why JG was, once again, underwhelming.
 
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