It took 5 years...

#76
#76
PennVol said:
Butch at CMU: 27-14

Butch at Cincy: 23-14

Butch Here: 29-21

insanity: Do the same thing, hope for a different result.
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Been saying this for a while. He's average, he has demonstrated mediocrity at every stop. He has a large enough sample size that we know exactly what we're getting; a pedestrian coach who will never be elite and probably never be horrific either.
 
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#77
#77
Something should have clicked for most here when Dooley's Bad News Vols completely shredded what was supposed to be a scrappy, well-coached Butch Jones Cincy team. Then, like now, the hoopla and PR surrounding Butch's team far outweighed reality.
 
#78
#78
NashVol11 said:
That's the point. He elevated his program to a place it hadn't been in decades, won an outright conference title, and dominated his chief rival. Butch did none of those things at Cincinnati.
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That's true...about Cincinnati... but Jones did win his conference out right, going 8-0 at Central Michigan and winning the MAC Championship game finishing 12-2, a feat never accomplished before in school history, he also beat Michigan State that season.

They also finished in the final AP Poll (23), which also had never happened in school history.

They haven't won more than 7 games since he left.

More to the point, I'm really talking about a three year resume and this risk involved in hiring a coach based on his first 3 years. There's no guarantee.
 
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#79
#79
He has had 1 bad season. Everyone needs to calm down. People on this board wishing we had Herman and that guy just finished tied for 3rd in the American Conference's Western Divison.
 
#80
#80
volfanhill said:
He has had 1 bad season. Everyone needs to calm down. People on this board wishing we had Herman and that guy just finished tied for 3rd in the American Conference's Western Divison.
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And what has Butch done besides lose games he shouldn't this year with superior talent. Lose games last year in the 4th because of stupid game management. Recruiting is anything but boring so far. Guys jumping overboard because they don't want to play for him. And he is such a control freak he want let his assistant coaches do their dang job without he gives his final say. He has a reputation of being to loyal to certain coaches and players just because they are seniors. Freshman that are highly rated and could and should be playing never saw the field until 3 guys before them went down to injury. It makes no sense why some fans thinks he is the 2nd coming when he hasn't done anything that great. I just do not understand why we are paying him $4 million when he isn't worth it.
 
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#84
#84
bigroxtar said:
For Saban to succeed at Michigan State. Just sayin... chill out.
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Weak. 12 lemmings have hit the like button for you though. Congrats.

Took him 3 years to win a national title at Alabama. All we asked of Butch was to win a pathetic SECe in year 4 when he was a prohibitive favorite......please don't ever compare Butch Jones to Nick Saban again.
 
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#85
#85
Saban/Butch is nothing alike. Mich St was just put on NCAA sanctions when Saban was hired. He had to overcome that.

He lost several scholarships those first two years.

Michigan St. Hit With Football Sanctions - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

All of the rulebreaking occurred during the tenure of former coach George Perles, who was dismissed in November, 1994, but he was conspicuously absent from the NCAA Committee on Infractions' 21-page report.

But there was a mountain of other evidence and Perles' successor, Nick Saban, will pay the price. Under Michigan State's self-imposed penalties, Saban already lost two scholarships this year. Next year he may offer only 18 grants, seven fewer than the maximum.
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#87
#87
majic73 said:
Thats the point to ponder. There was a time when Saban was not Saban. It took him 6 recruiting cycles at MSU to get to 9-3. Then he goes to recruiting meccas and is an instant hit . But to be objective , all of these years of number 1 recruiting classes ...and he is only working on his 2nd undefeated season.

I would say that UT is not a recruiting mecca compared to Alabama . UT has not recruit nationally and has historically had mixed results. Would any coach have instant success here ? I think it will take about 6 recruiting cycles ...just like it did for Nick at MSU
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UT was #5 on rivals in recruiting in 2014 and 2015, so it is not talent. I can't find MSU rankings back then, only the top 10. I doubt they ranked high initially, especially since Michigan was pulling in top 10 classes every year, as was Tennessee back then. IMO Nick would have killed back then at MSU in year 4 with Tennessee's current talent.

ESPN.com: NCF - Tracking the Top 10 1993-97
 
#88
#88
bigroxtar said:
It took 5 years...
For Saban to succeed at Michigan State. Just sayin... chill out.
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Yeah...

First of all, you realize you're talking about a once in a generation type coach, right?

Secondly, if there's a real point in your "stat", it's that he had only been a head coach for one year when he took over at Michigan State. So, yes, you definitely expect to see the growth and potential of a coach over the first, say, six years as a head coach. After that, you pretty much know what you're gonna get. Butch's first year here was his seventh as a head coach. He's not going to get any better.
 
#91
#91
majic73 said:
No. But if you look at virtually every great coach ...then take a look at some of the solid coaches. Even go all the way back to the General. You will see years of struggle , sometimes a little struggle ...sometimes alot ....followed by their great success. Bowden , Holtz, Joe, Saban , Osborne, Fulmer, Neyland , Spurrier ...the fans all had to put up with some tough times to get to the good times ...which were often short lived.

If every team fires their coach within 5 years ...will there ever be any great coaches again ?
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Nope. Could be that a MO, KY, Vandy type team doesn't play coaching roulette and becomes a winner though. Every job comes with a learning curve - even if it's a lateral there are new people, territory, facilities, and policies to adapt to - new systems with leftover players and lost recruiting classes to shore up. Top programs jettisoning HCs and mid to lower tire schools that don't could lead to the ultimate parity in football.

It's going to be really interesting when coaches don't even last a season; of course, that will be the end of college football as we know it. Just read an article today that HCs who have been fired aren't winners elsewhere - Gene Stallings was about the only one who managed to beat the statistic.

Of course, there was also the article speculating that AL may well wind up with 4 of the top 5 linebackers in this recruiting class which doesn't bode well for any other SEC coach as long as Saban is around. If AL cloned Saban, the SEC could be pumping out an average of thirteen has been coaches over every three year span.
 
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