ISIS Takes Control of Mosul

[Grand Vol]

Obama has handled Iraq miserably, however, if Bush/Cheney had not invaded Iraq Obama and the next president would not have this problem to worry about. We had zero business invading Iraq. Iraq is probably another Korea, we will be there for decades Thanks to your boy George.

Gramps, we were already there twelve yeas before the 2003 invasion. And had it not happened, we likely still would have been.

I've said it before, the problem wasn't the invasion, it was the aftermath. Which we were totally unprepared for.

 

[Gramps]

You cannot say that for certain.

You and I both can say for certain that Bush/Cheney invading Iraq was a major mistake. We would not have had all the lose of life and injures to ofur service men and women with the invasion, nor would we have spent trillions of dollars in Iraq for no justified reason.

 

[Gramps]

Iraq wasn't a secret when Obama ran. Bush was president 7 years ago. We won World Wars quicker. Iraq collapse is on Obama. Maybe next time the Dems won't elect a guy with zero experience.

Is there a problem with our troops being in Korea?

Maybe next time the GOP won't elect a guy that will invade another country without justification.

Do you want to have troops in Iraq 70 years from now? That is what we have done in Korea.

 

[FLVOL69]

You and I both can say for certain that Bush/Cheney invading Iraq was a major mistake. We would not have had all the lose of life and injures to ofur service men and women with the invasion, nor would we have spent trillions of dollars in Iraq for no justified reason.

Hindsight is 20/20.. Do you think Hillary knowing what she knows now would have sent ambassador Stevens the extra security he requested? or would Hillary have married Bill knowing what she knows now? The dems were on board as well as the gop, Obama Just exacerbated a bad situation by pulling all the troops out early.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

I'm sure the Iraqi people were happy to see Saddam go. Im sure the Iraqi people enjoy their vote.

Dems wanted us out of Iraq and that's what we did. Now we have chaos and you want to blame Bush? How hard would've it been to leave a base with a few thousand troops and a couple of Apaches? South Korean has flourished with our support. It's too bad Iraq didn't get the same support

 

[Gramps]

Gramps, we were already there twelve yeas before the 2003 invasion. And had it not happened, we likely still would have been.

I've said it before, the problem wasn't the invasion, it was the aftermath. Which we were totally unprepared for.

Desert Storm was not invading Iraq, you know better than that. That action was justified.Iraq had invaded Kuwait with no justification. The large coalition led by the USA ran Iraqi troops back into Iraq about a 100 or so miles and got out. I appauld Bush 1 for his actions. He did what was needed and no more.

What was the just if action for Bush/Cheney invading Iraq?

 

[theFallGuy]

Maybe next time the GOP won't elect a guy that will invade another country without justification.

Do you want to have troops in Iraq 70 years from now? That is what we have done in Korea.

Look I'm a not huge Bush fan but you can't lay all the blame at the feet of Bush. So if you are going to call him out make sure to include this list of all Republicans and Dems who voted for the invasion.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s237

 

[Gramps]

Hindsight is 20/20.. Do you think Hillary knowing what she knows now would have sent ambassador Stevens the extra security he requested? or would Hillary have married Bill knowing what she knows now? The dems were on board as well as the gop, Obama Just exacerbated a bad situation by pulling all the troops out early.

Hillary is a disaster that would follow in the footsteps of W and O. What happened to Ambassador Stevens had zero to do with W invading Iraq.

She may have married Bill. They may have an open marriage, many do.

The Dems and Repubs on board for invading were all wrong. With that said W is the man that ordered the invasion.

I agree Obama has not helped the situation. In 2008 W signed on with Iraq to pull US troops out on a specific date, which was another mistake. Obama is Bush 3 . He has followed in W's footstep on national security matters. Bush and O are both disasterrs as presidents, imo

 

[Grand Vol]

Desert Storm was not invading Iraq, you know better than that. That action was justified.Iraq had invaded Kuwait with no justification. The large coalition led by the USA ran Iraqi troops back into Iraq about a 100 or so miles and got out. I appauld Bush 1 for his actions. He did what was needed and no more.

What was the just if action for Bush/Cheney invading Iraq?

I'm also referring to Operations Southern and Northern Watch where we had thousands of troops rotate through that hellhole and dropped a great deal of money for nothing more than enforcing UN sanctions. And with no clear end in sight. Iraq sponsored a terrorist attack or attempt? We'd bomb the crap out of them and go back to patrolling the skies. Light up a couple of our fighters with a SAM? We'd bomb that and go back to patrolling.

I think the invasion was justified. It wasn't sold right at all, but in the end the removal of Saddam from power was righteous in my opinion. But the aftermath of rebuilding that nation was the problem. The insurgency would never had gotten almost out of control had they used the same blueprints from Germany and Japan in the aftermath. There still would have been problems, but by and large, Iraq would have had a different face today.

 

[Gramps]

I'm sure the Iraqi people were happy to see Saddam go. Im sure the Iraqi people enjoy their vote.

Dems wanted us out of Iraq and that's what we did. Now we have chaos and you want to blame Bush? How hard would've it been to leave a base with a few thousand troops and a couple of Apaches? South Korean has flourished with our support. It's too bad Iraq didn't get the same support

I believe it was Rummy and Cheney who stated the Iraqi people would meet US troops with open arms. From day 1 of Saddam falling the Iraqi people have been destroying their own country, killing each other and American troops.

You can thank you boys Georgie and Dickie for the chaos Iraq has been.

 

[FLVOL69]

Hillary is a disaster that would follow in the footsteps of W and O. What happened to Ambassador Stevens had zero to do with W invading Iraq.

She may have married Bill. They may have an open marriage, many do.

The Dems and Repubs on board for invading were all wrong. With that said W is the man that ordered the invasion.

I agree Obama has not helped the situation. In 2008 W signed on with Iraq to pull US troops out on a specific date, which was another mistake. Obama is Bush 3 . He has followed in W's footstep on national security matters. Bush and O are both disasterrs as presidents, imo

Bush wouldn't have pulled out without the status of forces agreement.

 

[theFallGuy]

I'm also referring to Operations Southern and Northern Watch where we had thousands of troops rotate through that hellhole and dropped a great deal of money for nothing more than enforcing UN sanctions. And with no clear end in sight. Iraq sponsored a terrorist attack or attempt? We'd bomb the crap out of them and go back to patrolling the skies. Light up a couple of our fighters with a SAM? We'd bomb that and go back to patrolling.

I think the invasion was justified. It wasn't sold right at all, but in the end the removal of Saddam from power was righteous in my opinion. But the aftermath of rebuilding that nation was the problem. The insurgency would never had gotten almost out of control had they used the same blueprints from Germany and Japan in the aftermath. There still would have been problems, but by and large, Iraq would have had a different face today.

I don't know. What I'm seeing is as you remove these very brutal dictators the people they are ruling over are just as brutal. Look at Libya and Syria as examples. ISIS was born out of the Syrian rebel movement that we were helping to oust Assad.

 

[Gramps]

I'm also referring to Operations Southern and Northern Watch where we had thousands of troops rotate through that hellhole and dropped a great deal of money for nothing more than enforcing UN sanctions. And with no clear end in sight. Iraq sponsored a terrorist attack or attempt? We'd bomb the crap out of them and go back to patrolling the skies. Light up a couple of our fighters with a SAM? We'd bomb that and go back to patrolling.

I think the invasion was justified. It wasn't sold right at all, but in the end the removal of Saddam from power was righteous in my opinion. But the aftermath of rebuilding that nation was the problem. The insurgency would never had gotten almost out of control had they used the same blueprints from Germany and Japan in the aftermath. There still would have been problems, but by and large, Iraq would have had a different face today.

I agree with most of your post.

I do not agree it was justified and I have heard no one give a good reason to invade. That was one of the major foreign policies mistake in perhaps the history of the US.
The only worse foreign policy mistake that comes to mind is Vietnam.

We invaded without an exit strategy. We were sold that the Iraqi people would greet out troops with open arms and the world would be a safer place. Neither one of those things happened.

 

[Gramps]

Look I'm a not huge Bush fan but you can't lay all the blame at the feet of Bush. So if you are going to call him out make sure to include this list of all Republicans and Dems who voted for the invasion.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s237

Read my reply to 69.

 

[Gramps]

Bush wouldn't have pulled out without the status of forces agreement.

Are you 100% sure of that?

I may be wrong but I sincerely Bush/Cheney went into to office looking for any excuse to take Saddam out.

 

[Grand Vol]

I believe it was Rummy and Cheney who stated the Iraqi people would meet US troops with open arms. From day 1 of Saddam falling the Iraqi people have been destroying their own country, killing each other and American troops.

You can thank you boys Georgie and Dickie for the chaos Iraq has been.

You know I respect your opinion greatly Gramps, but this is a case where you've been swallowed up by the mainstream media and believe what you're told.

 

[Gramps]

I don't know. What I'm seeing is as you remove these very brutal dictators the people they are ruling over are just as brutal. Look at Libya and Syria as examples. ISIS was born out of the Syrian rebel movement that we were helping to oust Assad.

The famous enemy of our enemy is our friend policy that always backfires on us

 

[Gramps]

You know I respect your opinion greatly Gramps, but this is a case where you've been swallowed up by the mainstream media and believe what you're told.

You are wrong about that GV and I greatly respect your opinion.

What we were sold is not what we got. That has been proved over and over. IIRC the msm in the most part was also for the invasion, most everyone swallowed the pill at that time.

Has Iraq not been in turmoil since day one of Saddam falling?

 

[Grand Vol]

I agree with most of your post.

I do not agree it was justified and I have heard no one give a good reason to invade. That was one of the major foreign policies mistake in perhaps the history of the US.
The only worse foreign policy mistake that comes to mind is Vietnam.

We invaded without an exit strategy. We were sold that the Iraqi people would greet out troops with open arms and the world would be a safer place. Neither one of those things happened.

They did greet our troops with open arms in the aftermath. And removing Saddam from power was justified IMO.

And we didn't need an exit strategy going in. We needed a plan to rebuild. From 1991 and on, the nation was in a constant state of collapse. Had we gotten the Iraqis to rebuild their nation like the Germans and Japanese did after WWII, again you would have seen a different side of Iraq. However, when you ship in thousands of third country nationals to do the labor that Iraqis could and should have been doing for themselves, you end up with what we had. Give a man a job and he's less likely to fight you. Have him watch a Filipino do the labor he knows he can do and it breeds resentment. Which turns to anger and violence afterwards.

We only needed an exit strategy once Iraq was on a path to self sustainment. But politics demanded "opposition" to anything in Iraq and it became popular to oppose the war just to garner votes. Hence why the DNC won overwhelmingly in 2006 and 2008.

 

[Grand Vol]

You are wrong about that GV and I greatly respect your opinion.

What we were sold is not what we got. That has been proved over and over. IIRC the msm in the most part was also for the invasion, most everyone swallowed the pill at that time.

I was over there in 2004 and again in 2007. I know what I saw with my own eyes.

You can believe the press reports all you want. They turned on the war because it was, again, fashionable to do. Sure they were all for the invasion in the beginning, but the Iraqi people making nice with each other and singing Kumbaya doesn't make good news reports.

 

[Gramps]

I was over there in 2004 and again in 2007. I know what I saw with my own eyes.

You can believe the press reports all you want. They turned on the war because it was, again, fashionable to do. Sure they were all for the invasion in the beginning, but the Iraqi people making nice with each other and singing Kumbaya doesn't make good news reports.

I disagree with the last sentence. I think Iraq coming together as a nation and singing Kumbaya would have made great news report.

I appreciate your service and only you know what you saw.

 

[Grand Vol]

Has Iraq not been in turmoil since day one of Saddam falling?

You edited while I was replying.

Turmoil? Not as much as you were led to believe. Sure, there were problems especially in the center of the country. But the southern and northern parts of Iraq were a lot more stable than the news gave them credit for being.

 

[Grand Vol]

I disagree with the last sentence. I think Iraq coming together as a nation and singing Kumbaya would have made great news report.

Violence sells a whole lot more than everyone getting along. Why else did the media flock to Ferguson and Baltimore in recent memory?

 

[Gramps]

Violence sells a whole lot more than everyone getting along. Why else did the media flock to Ferguson and Baltimore in recent memory?

Rev Al and Jesse made them go or else?

 

[Gramps]

You edited while I was replying.

Turmoil? Not as much as you were led to believe. Sure, there were problems especially in the center of the country. But the southern and northern parts of Iraq were a lot more stable than the news gave them credit for being.

The Kurds pretty much ruled their region and it remained under control, correct?

That central part has been a mess.