Is UT really without talent?

[DragonChi]

Depends on how you define talent. If only basing it off recruiting rankings, then the last 2 classes hurt UT. However, I expect UT's next recruiting class to be a good one regardless of how the season plays out since Pruitt is a great recruiter and will get the first year recruiting bump that a lot of coaches seem to get. IMO recruiting is a decent way to see program trajectory. Here is the total number of 4* and 5* for UT, UGA, UF, USC, and Bama for the last 3 classes.

I love facts. GA and AL are clearly more talented, (plus Auburn) FL might have a slight lead, we are about equal to SC maybe a slight lead. If we win 1 out of those Four is about what we should expect and than hope that we lose one flat game against a weaker team (everyone does) would make a solid year one effort.
:hi:

 

[Atlanta917]

I love facts. GA and AL are clearly more talented, (plus Auburn) FL might have a slight lead, we are about equal to SC maybe a slight lead. If we win 1 out of those Four is about what we should expect and than hope that we lose one flat game against a weaker team (everyone does) would make a solid year one effort.
:hi:

Pruitt will narrow the talent gap. The question is how quickly he can do it.

 

[allvol17]

Correct. History tells us that if an SEC coach doesn’t win 9 or more games by year 2, that he’ll never win an SEC title, which is the goal. If your head coach doesn’t win 9 games by year 2, he ain’t the right guy.

Well, Johnny Majors didn’t win 9 until his 7th season at UT.... and he had 3 SEC Championships.

So there is that..

 

[Nocleats]

Pruitt will narrow the talent gap. The question is how quickly he can do it.

Gap grew bigger this year.

 

[Atlanta917]

Gap grew bigger this year.

It did, but Pruitt really didn't much time to work. Even though UT didn't hit on the big name targets, yall got a ton of big names on campus and were at least considered, which is obviously a step in the right direction. I would hold off judgement on Pruitt's recruiting abilities until his first full class of his guys. It may be easier for me to say this because I'm not a UT fan and not as invested, but UT just has too much history and too many resources to continue to be down. When Richt was fired I would've been happy with Pruitt. Obviously things have worked out with Smart and Pruitt seems to check the same boxes he does. Both great recruiters and great DC's. It'll be interesting to see them battle on the recruiting trail next season and of course on the field. :hi:

 

[HSTVol]

I’d say we out talent Vandy, Kentucky, and Missouri. We’re pretty close to even with Florida and South Carolina but we’re years behind Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn.

9/22 Florida
9/29 @Georgia
10/6 OFF
10/13 @Auburn
10/20 Alabama
10/27 @South Carolina

South Carolina has the advantage this year. They’ll be coming off a bye week, playing at home, and scheduled at the tail end of us playing 3 of top 8 teams in a 4 week span.

 

[KBVol]

Well, Johnny Majors didn’t win 9 until his 7th season at UT.... and he had 3 SEC Championships.

So there is that..

Allow me to qualify.....should've stated since 1992 when the SEC broke into divisions and started playing the SECCG.....25 years of data.

On another note, had Majors put up 4 initial awful seasons today like he did back in the 1970s, he would be (and should be) fired and never see a 5th season.

 

[Backwards K]

Tennessee may have the least amount of proven talent in the SEC. Trey Smith, Warrior, and maybe Kirkland (if he could stay healthy) and Bituli (if he ever figures out where to line up) are the only Vols who would even be in the 2 deep for most of the teams in the SEC.

 

[sjt18]

Well, Johnny Majors didn’t win 9 until his 7th season at UT.... and he had 3 SEC Championships.

So there is that..

He's an exception even from that era. But to answer your point, the SEC and college football have changed. There was far less pressure to win right away then. Now you have this website and others like it, social media, intense media scrutiny, a whole industry around recruiting, multimillion $ coaching deals, almost every game on tv,... the exposure and value of momentum in a program is far more critical than before.

There's also the point that the combination of the situation a coach inherits plus his ability will result in 9 plus wins within 3 years.... or else one of those will cost him his job. It isn't personal... just reality. Recruits are attracted to winners first. After winners.... they go for playing time and the "new coach on the block". Jones got that bump too. After 3 years the new wears off. Every flaw or failure has then created an image of that coach with the public and especially recruits.

So if you aren't a good enough coach to win... recruits will stop believing and after that... you go from 9 wins to 4.

 

[sjt18]

Tennessee may have the least amount of proven talent in the SEC. Trey Smith, Warrior, and maybe Kirkland (if he could stay healthy) and Bituli (if he ever figures out where to line up) are the only Vols who would even be in the 2 deep for most of the teams in the SEC.

Two things to add... not argue.

One, I'm hanging my hopes on the "unproven" part. I'm hopeful some of those guys were better than Jones' stupid "system" made them look.

Two, great coaches can win with youth. Jones couldn't... and that should have been another clear indicator to everyone.

 

[Nocleats]

Two things to add... not argue.

One, I'm hanging my hopes on the "unproven" part. I'm hopeful some of those guys were better than Jones' stupid "system" made them look.

Two, great coaches can win with youth. Jones couldn't... and that should have been another clear indicator to everyone.

Youth goes away when attrition is controlled

 

[Vol8188]

Most of the time you see recruiting rankings, the potential doesn’t come to fruition until Jr and Sr years of that class even tho a lot expect them to contribute immediately. So, the leaders you look for come from the 2014 (redshirts) and 2015 classes. Both of those classes finished top 5.

UT will always out ‘talent’ 2/3 of the teams they face each year. Only teams on the schedule this year with more talent are Fla, UGA, Bama.

There’s not a lot left from either of those classes. The bright spot is the junior class is mostly intact with very little attrition.

 

[sjt18]

Youth goes away when attrition is controlled

Whether that matters depends on how good the older guys are. I hope they're better than Jones allowed them to show.

 

[tennrich1]

I think we have talent but our depth has been and will continue to be an issue for the near future. As CJP said we are undersized especially for the system he wants to run. And of course the injury issue is HUGE...(see Georgia lack of injuries for 2017 season which contributed HUGELY to their success)....Smoke and mirrors for 2018.... MAYBE?

 

[tennrich1]

Tennessee may have the least amount of proven talent in the SEC. Trey Smith, Warrior, and maybe Kirkland (if he could stay healthy) and Bituli (if he ever figures out where to line up) are the only Vols who would even be in the 2 deep for most of the teams in the SEC.

You nailed it on Bituli...fine player but was out of position on 2 plays I can recall and the result was TD....can’t be having that especially from his position....

 

[TexasVolfan1]

9/22 Florida
9/29 @Georgia
10/6 OFF
10/13 @Auburn
10/20 Alabama
10/27 @South Carolina

South Carolina has the advantage this year. They’ll be coming off a bye week, playing at home, and scheduled at the tail end of us playing 3 of top 8 teams in a 4 week span.

Yeah that whole stretch is brutal I’d be surprised with 2 wins out of those. Not saying we’d beat SCjr or Florida just saying I feel like we’re just as talented as they are

 

[VolAmerican]

We can put a good 11 on the field, the problem is depth. Switch one out and we get blown up.

 

[TGVol]

Two, great coaches can win with youth. Jones couldn't... and that should have been another clear indicator to everyone.

In my opinion the clearest indicator and huge red flag early on was when Butch said he was going to hire the best staff in America (sounded great at that time and it was exactly what he should have promised and attempted to do), but then instead he brought in the best Cincy Bearcat staff in America. So when people wonder how come Vandy and Kentucky beat us it was really not that surprising - they are expected to beat Cincy most of the time. :cray:

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

Derek Mason and Vanderbilt concur that the Vols are indeed very soft and that their 0-8 SEC record confirms this fact:cray:

It was a team that had stated goals and milestones that consisted of...

-First plane rides

-First trips to Florida

-Orphanage trips and trash pick ups.

-Treadmill tricks.

All of which led to the top stated, highest goal being 1-0 this week, every week, no further or higher goal stated, claimed, aspired to.

This was a team that illustrated the downside of low expectations and self-fulfilling prophecies... that sold and "played up", ultimately the notion that Vanderbilt was a heated rival, which produced "great, hard fought toss-up games, every year".

If you demand that your children "keep their mess to their rooms." They will, at best, have messy rooms.

The best way for a vol to gain high praise from the former staff, was to be injured. The impact of a player was most noted if he wasn't available. Second best way was to be a freshman or sophomore, so that your youth could be touted....example....Josh Palmer.

Totally screwed up culture.

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

You nailed it on Bituli...fine player but was out of position on 2 plays I can recall and the result was TD....can’t be having that especially from his position....

people hate when vol fans knock jumpers total lack of athletic ability, but had no problem countering that argument with sapp and bituli's lack of intelligence and knowledge.

I threw sapp into the mix because heard the same about him plenty.

Sapp and Bituli are intelligent AND athletic. Problem was our linebacker coach was NOT. Tommy Thigpen was an awful coach, could barely manage full sentences and was totally responsible for our woeful linebacker development and production...throwing jumper out there, time after time was a cop-out for coaching failure. He was essentially a GA, or student coach in training with eligibility.

There is no excuse for either of those young men playing below their level of ability...

No excuse except for Tommy Thigpen, Bob Shoop, and Butch Jones.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Poor development and the fact that Jones' poor "caretaking" of the program resulted in a lot of guys having serious or even career changing injuries.

It is really hard not to be angry with some of you guys who now dog him who previously defended and excused him. You attacked some of us for pointing out the very things that "everyone" seems to see now. They were always there. ALWAYS. You just had to be willing to open your eyes and see.

PLEASE don't make the same mistake with Pruitt if he starts showing serious deficiencies as a HC.

The hypocrisy and rabid coach worshipping of a segment of this fan base will never go away.

And it's started with Pruitt already with the spin on how winning a title for Bama somehow helps the Vols, the recruiting class falling flat in the second signing period, and now losing a staff member before they ever got in a practice.

 

[smokey0625]

Tennessee doesn't have alot of talent. The talent it does have is widely under developed.

I mean the last staff used Hurd over kamara. The coach we are upset about losing was a part of using Hurd over kamara. C'mon man.

My point we prolly have talent but the coaches sucked.

 

[volfannbama]

I mean the last staff used Hurd over kamara. The coach we are upset about losing was a part of using Hurd over kamara. C'mon man.

My point we prolly have talent but the coaches sucked.

Whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Biopsyman]

None of our players really got better under Jones… Dobbs was just a athlete playing quarterback never really a great thrower

 

[dcm3w]

Talent does matter but it only really goes so far.

People take schematically and technically sound players/systems for granted. Look at the Patriots, FAU, etc. They either have the players for the scheme and/or are technically sound. Kiffin literally made a terrible team dangerous. The reason is because he is schematically smart and that's why him at Alabama was terrible for everyone.