Is there more to this?

#77
#77
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You don't make $9M when you start out and those who can get to that level are usually pretty good coaches.

Most of us would get fired from HS or JUCO because we can't coach.
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I disagree. Absent a complete personality type that cannot teach and motivate, I'd say most knowledgeable fans could coach at lower levels if you devoted yourself to it. At the college level, the best coaches are simply solid leaders and networkers, skills that apply to many other professions as well.

Some of us in here overestimate the complexity of the job. Is it complicated? Sure, but so are most high level managerial or professional jobs. I'll agree that dealing with 18-24 year old kids adds irritation, but again position coaches are making high six figures to low seven figures. That kind of money buys a lot of tolerance in my book.. HBCs are making silly money, and moaning about the randomness of college kids is laughable when you're making that kind of bank.

Just an opinion. Let's not overcomplicate this, fellas. College coaches are EXTREMELY well compensated for what they have to do. And they know it, otherwise why would so many stick around for so long?

1morevol said:
I got fired as a PeeWee coach once. I never played high school football but had volunteered because no one else would do it. It got pretty bad, lost the first 3 games. Had a couple little fellows try to hit the portal. Parents revolted. Talked some guy, who had ridden the bench for 4 years at the local school, into taking the job. I think what sealed the deal for him was the offer of free, unlimited access to the concession stand. He didn't fare much better. Ran what was described locally as the "Run Amok" defensive scheme. He was a big Vols fan and attended several coaching clinics, especially he sessions about coaching defense. He did manage to win one game, by forfeit, as the other team didn't show up. One tactic he devised was having.all eleven of his players hit the ground with a fake injury at the same time. That was quite a scene.
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Yup. NIL with 8 year olds is horrific. And dealing with those tiny agents brings huge headaches!

All joking aside, solid reply, thanks for the laugh!
 
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#78
#78
farmdogvol said:
Wyoming will always be enough reason to hate. He's gone and ain't ever coming back. I knew he lost it and needed to be gone at the bowl game against Wisconsin.
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And he was never getting a “sabbatical” either. That’s fulmerite’s ultimate fantasy repeated ad nauseum. Puts that dream out every month. As far as I know, he got a permanent sabbatical except for that giant mistake of letting him play AD.
 
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#80
#80
allstar34 said:
Most have been making 3-5 m a year for a decade and when invested correctly.. their kids, kids won't have to work again. Money is great; but only to a certain point and then it's just a tool to grow more money.
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True, good point. But I'd posit that even in that case, more is usually better. VERY few of these guys "just walk away, Renee'"** gracefully. They get that HBC teat and hold on for all they are worth. For example, Josh Heupel is only going to leave Tennessee under two scenarios:

1. He is fired; or
2. The Oklahoma job opens and he is offered similar money.

Otherwise you'll have to wheel him out of here on a stretcher. Nick Saban is a rare bird who actually quit and didn't retire.

**That old Left Banke song was running through my head, sorry
 
#81
#81
VolInNW said:
I disagree. Absent a complete personality type that cannot teach and motivate, I'd say most knowledgeable fans could coach at lower levels if you devoted yourself to it. At the college level, the best coaches are simply solid leaders and networkers, skills that apply to many other professions as well.

Some of us in here overestimate the complexity of the job. Is it complicated? Sure, but so are most high level managerial or professional jobs. I'll agree that dealing with 18-24 year old kids adds irritation, but again position coaches are making high six figures to low seven figures. That kind of money buys a lot of tolerance in my book.. HBCs are making silly money, and moaning about the randomness of college kids is laughable when you're making that kind of bank.

Just an opinion. Let's not overcomplicate this, fellas. College coaches are EXTREMELY well compensation for what they have to do. And they know it, otherwise why would so many stick around for so long?



Yup. NIL with 8 year olds is horrific. And dealing with those tiny agents brings huge headaches!

All joking aside, solid reply, thanks for the laugh!
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Given your assessment, many more should be very good at it. If it's a job most can do, you have a larger pool and a better chance for amazing, truly elite coaches to be found. They aren't there.

The job is not hard at the lower levels or wasn't until transfers and NIL because little was expected. As we saw with Harsin at Auburn, success at a lower level doesn't translate to you having a clue at a higher level.

Let's put it this way. Lots of woodworkers can build a guitar, that's true. Very few can build a guitar worth paying much for. Lots of luthiers can build a guitar, but there are great luthiers who are sought after and make a lot of money.

Coaching isn't that hard. Coaching well is even doable at a lower level. Coaching in the elite conferences isn't something everyone who can coach can do.
 
#82
#82
VolInNW said:
I disagree. Absent a complete personality type that cannot teach and motivate, I'd say most knowledgeable fans could coach at lower levels if you devoted yourself to it. At the college level, the best coaches are simply solid leaders and networkers, skills that apply to many other professions as well.

Some of us in here overestimate the complexity of the job. Is it complicated? Sure, but so are most high level managerial or professional jobs. I'll agree that dealing with 18-24 year old kids adds irritation, but again position coaches are making high six figures to low seven figures. That kind of money buys a lot of tolerance in my book.. HBCs are making silly money, and moaning about the randomness of college kids is laughable when you're making that kind of bank.

Just an opinion. Let's not overcomplicate this, fellas. College coaches are EXTREMELY well compensation for what they have to do. And they know it, otherwise why would so many stick around for so long?



Yup. NIL with 8 year olds is horrific. And dealing with those tiny agents brings huge headaches!

All joking aside, solid reply, thanks for the laugh!
Click to expand...
I agree and disagree. The leadership and networking skills that coaches have 100% apply to other professions, agreed. It's why someone like Saban would probably be just as successful being in an executive role at a Fortune 500 corporation (he probably could have made more money working in a job like that, and with less hours actually). The trouble someone from outside the industry would have with a head coaching gig is that you have to be able to hire good assistant coaches who can 1) technically teach the position and 2) identify talent. If you don't know ball beyond a point that a knowledgeable fan would, it seems like it would be really difficult to identify those coaches who are good at that. Even at the lower levels.

I am glad that the Portal has finally dispensed with the notion that it takes 5-6 years to turn a program around. I never was a believer in that pre-portal, but it really isn't the case now. There are 105 scholarship players (way fewer than that who are getting consistent playing time), 12 coaches, and a support staff of around 50 people. These programs aren't massive organizations with thousands of employees. If you get people in positions who know what they're doing, you should see results pretty quickly. If you have a program that has been down and you hire a new coach, you should know by the second year what that coach is capable of and where you're going. Not saying that if he's a good coach he should win a title in year 2, but if the team isn't really getting better by that second year he's probably not a good coach.

I would say that the average to poor coaches are extremely well compensated for what they do. I actually think it's pretty easy to make an argument that the very good ones are underpaid, especially when you factor in the hours they're working. Sports, unlike other industries, is a zero sum game. It isn't like a growing industry where a rising tide is going to lift all boats. If 10 programs in any given season think they're going to win the title, at least 9 of them are going to be disappointed, and that ire ultimately gets directed at the coach. That's a huge reason why they have the leverage they do in these contract negotiations.
 
#83
#83
#1fulmerite said:
You Fulmer haters are just lucky he wasn’t given a sabbatical. Had he been given one, you wouldn’t have reason to hate.

It’s not like he suddenly forgot how to coach.
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Coaches have a shelf life. Tom Landry didn't suddenly forget how to coach. Chuck Noll didn't suddenly forget how to coach. Don Shula didn't forget how to coach. Bobby Bowden didn't forget how to coach. Etc., etc.

Fulmer had his time but he was like a lot of corp types I saw. What he did was hard work and required intense focus on COACHING.
He drifted to other items on his Perf Review goals and objectives... spent time on them. His work with young people was admirable, fund raising for charities was noteworthy,
They were not COACHING... by the time he realized other schools had caught UT , he lost to Wyoming and the powerful booster base had shifted.
 
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#84
#84
I would never have implemented NIL unless the money was equally distributed to every member of the team. Imagine having a couple of prima donas who lay out an entire season drawing big money while the rest of the team carries their weight, only to see them hit the portal as soon as it opened. If this doesn't cause issues, I don't know why. There needs to be limits to NIL and distributing it equitably to all players would be my answer.
 
#88
#88
VolInNW said:
I disagree. Absent a complete personality type that cannot teach and motivate, I'd say most knowledgeable fans could coach at lower levels if you devoted yourself to it. At the college level, the best coaches are simply solid leaders and networkers, skills that apply to many other professions as well.

Some of us in here overestimate the complexity of the job. Is it complicated? Sure, but so are most high level managerial or professional jobs. I'll agree that dealing with 18-24 year old kids adds irritation, but again position coaches are making high six figures to low seven figures. That kind of money buys a lot of tolerance in my book.. HBCs are making silly money, and moaning about the randomness of college kids is laughable when you're making that kind of bank.

Just an opinion. Let's not overcomplicate this, fellas. College coaches are EXTREMELY well compensation for what they have to do. And they know it, otherwise why would so many stick around for so long?



Yup. NIL with 8 year olds is horrific. And dealing with those tiny agents brings huge headaches!

All joking aside, solid reply, thanks for the laugh!
Click to expand...
Thanks. Been a Vols fan for 70 years from Bowden Wyatt through Coach Heupel. Love the Big Orange but sometimes ya just gotta laugh at it all.
 
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#89
#89
G0V0LS33 said:
Seems like another year of a lot hitting the portal all of the sudden. Yes I know it is the way of the new NCAA however, could there be more to it? Like maybe issues inside the locker room or something??
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I'd say there is A LOT more to it. Heupel just fired underperforming coaches. Some of the guys are dissatisfied. Some are being pushed. Many likely think they're worth more than UT does.


The changes were inevitably going to have repercussions throughout the program.
 
#90
#90
#1fulmerite said:
And all of Volnation stating said players are being recruited over.

Gotta like the pumpers.
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Really? All of Volnation, huh? Your false dichotomy is pretty obvious.

I'm about to go through wage reviews. Some "good" contributors may not get great raises. Do they think they deserve them? Yes. Maybe they do. But my job is to build the best team I can with my labor budget.

It is sort of like the movie "Money Ball". You don't have to "recruit over" a particular player to make choices that create a better roster and team.
 
#91
#91
Boston Vol said:
Welcome to the new era of college football. Guys want to play, if they don’t believe they’re going to get that opportunity, they’re gone. Coaches want players who will contribute. If they don’t believe someone is good enough to do so, they’ll cut them loose.
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Yep.

This is going to work both ways. You want the pay, you better perform or a school will free up the $$ to get a performer.
 
#92
#92
sjt18 said:
Really? All of Volnation, huh? Your false dichotomy is pretty obvious.

I'm about to go through wage reviews. Some "good" contributors may not get great raises. Do they think they deserve them? Yes. Maybe they do. But my job is to build the best team I can with my labor budget.

It is sort of like the movie "Money Ball". You don't have to "recruit over" a particular player to make choices that create a better roster and team.
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You make the point very well that coaches and teams will stand on business for their decisions.

What VN does is hates on players being treated as cogs in the business also treating being a Vol or not as a business decision. "He's not a VFL!"

Well yeah, he has realized he's just a cog in the machine and he can market his cog position elsewhere just like they can upgrade their machine.

Players deserve the same respect when they market their services as coaches do when they upgrade the business.
 
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#93
#93
Delmar said:
And he was never getting a “sabbatical” either. That’s fulmerite’s ultimate fantasy repeated ad nauseum. Puts that dream out every month. As far as I know, he got a permanent sabbatical except for that giant mistake of letting him play AD.
Click to expand...

Fulmer was gonna stay at that cash teat as long as he could. Towards the end, he was 150lbs overweight, waddling on the sidelines, grimacing, and clapping. Regardless of what was happening on the field. He felt he deserved a job for life, regardless of the product.

When the chance opened up to get back at that teat as AD, he grabbed it with both hands. He had no idea what he was doing, and to his credit I don't think he knew what Slingblade was really up to. His "recruiting has been going well" (or words to that effect) comment at his 'retirement' presser showed just how completely out of touch he was.

Fulmer gave a lot to Tennessee. And he was well compensated for it. I'm glad we moved on.
 
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#94
#94
I think this is what we should expect to see every offseason from here on out. I do think we need to be more aggressive in the portal though. I know we’ve had some limitations regarding how many guys we can take, but every year it seems like we lose 15 guys and bring in like 3-4. IMO I think we need to bump that number up
 
#97
#97
VolInNW said:
True, good point. But I'd posit that even in that case, more is usually better. VERY few of these guys "just walk away, Renee'"** gracefully. They get that HBC teat and hold on for all they are worth. For example, Josh Heupel is only going to leave Tennessee under two scenarios:

1. He is fired; or
2. The Oklahoma job opens and he is offered similar money.

Otherwise you'll have to wheel him out of here on a stretcher. Nick Saban is a rare bird who actually quit and didn't retire.

**That old Left Banke song was running through my head, sorry
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Tom Osborne might have played it the best. Coached a very long time, then wins 3 titles in 4 years, then retires after the 3rd title at a relatively young age (60).
 
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#99
#99
I find the portal exciting actually. Smaller school players who have proved themselves get a chance to move up a couple of levels and coaches can target needs and flip a roster much sooner than previously. Of course this is now an arms race and each school may be unlucky via the portal due to injury or weak evaluations. Individual players may also pull a Nico and leave a perfect situation chasing something different or receiving ridiculous advice.

I like the way senior citizen Rick Barnes has created excitement and success for Vol basketball via the portal also.

Anyway boys predictors of doom for college football due to NIL and the portal may prove to be seriously off base.
 
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