Is the world better off with the nation of Israel?

#501
#501
I know one thing: there will be no peace in the Mid East as long as Israel exists and as long as the U.S. maintains strong interests in the region (i.e. oil).

These interests aren't going to be a top priority for the U.S. much longer; with some in the auto industry projecting more electric vehicles than gas as early as 2030. The demand for oil is only going in one direction from here on out.

But with all the pillaging the West has inflicted on that region, security is going to be an issue for decades to come. We'll need the Israelis and the Saudis to remain as a buffer for any potential revenge maneuvers and as a reminder that we can turn the middle east into a glass parking lot if they try anything.
 
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#502
#502
NorthDallas40 said:
I’ll argue it then. The region known as Palestine existed long before the Ottoman Empire as the heart of the United Kingdom of Israel. And that includes Gaza and the West Bank. Why are you shocked that they would want it back?
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It was the Romans who began calling Israel as Palestine after Rome destroyed the Temple and initiated dispersion of the Jews.

Origin of "Palestine"

..."derivitave of the name Palestine first appears in Greek literature in the 5th Century BCE when the historian Herodotus called the area Palaistin?(Greek - Παλαιστ?νη). In the 2nd century CE, the Romans crushed the revolt of Shimon Bar Kokhba (132 CE), during which Jerusalem and Judea were regained and the area of Judea was renamed Palaestina in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel."...

Under the Ottomans not much more than minimal subsistence agriculture was going on there. Population was mixed as there had always been a remnant number of Jews, even back to the Roman occupation. Then came Christianity and the Byzantine Empire. And of course about 700AD they were conquered by the Muslims who retained control though various caliphates.

..."in 632, the new Muslim caliph, Abu Bakr, launched Islam into almost 1,500 years of continual imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of others through invasion and war, a role Islam continues to this very day. - Richard C. Csaplar, Jr."...

Then the Crusaders reconquered for Christiandom to establish the Kingdom of Jerusalem in the 11th century, only to be defeated again by Islam who retained control until the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) choose to fight on the German side in WW1 and was conquered. The conquerers of The Triple Entente of Britian, France and eventually Russia divided up the conquered lands during a secret 1916 agreement between the United Kingdom and France.
This was the Asia Minor Agreement commonly known as the Sykes–Picot Agreement. Toss in the British Balfour Mandate, (a conquering nation deciding what to do with conquered land) to restablish a homeland for the Jews and that money for purchasing that land for private owners was being gathered, no one should be shocked the Jews wanted it back.
 
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#503
#503
. The Levant as envisioned by Sykes-Picot

The green region is that of the British Mandate under Sykes-Picot (not to beconfused with the Balfour Mandate).
 

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#504
#504
Rasputin_Vol said:
No one is arguing that the region known as "Palestine" was originally an undefined area in the Ottoman Empire.




It is astonishing that you don't mention in your post the UN boundaries for Gaza and West Bank. What is the excuse for Israeli settlements or constant encroachment in these areas? What about Jerusalem being an international city?
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Now there's all kinds of politics involved.

The short answer is in June of 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked Israel. Within six days an outnumbered Israel thoroughly defeated the combined armies and militarily conquered while fighting a defense war for the very existence of Israeld the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. This is the Six Day War.

Maybe you can tell enquiring minds why they should give back to sworn enemys who'd like nothing better than to see Israel dissapear any of those conquered lands. Gaza, the West Bank.

Point to all the UN Resolutions, World Court rulings, etc. you want. How many other nations fighting for their lives returned conquered land?
 
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#506
#506
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yet officially, they have none, nor are they a member of any nuclear nonproliferation agreements. Yet, they are able to demonize Iran...
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No one knows what Israel does or does not have as a nuclear arsenal. If, in fact, any at all.
You folk are doing exactly what so many accused Bush of doing over Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.

Why are you so anti-Jew, anti-Israel to the point it being antisemitic racism?

Likewise, your apologetic stance towards Iran in your post is mind boggling.

One begins to wonder if you have America's best interests at heart.
 
#510
#510
Orangedogsrule said:
No one knows what Israel does or does not have as a nuclear arsenal. If, in fact, any at all.
You folk are doing exactly what so many accused Bush of doing over Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.

Why are you so anti-Jew, anti-Israel to the point it being antisemitic racism?

Likewise, your apologetic stance towards Iran in your post is mind boggling.

One begins to wonder if you have America's best interests at heart.
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So, not agreeing with everything Israel does is now anti-Semitic/anti-Jew?

That's mind boggling narrow....
 
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#511
#511
Pacer92 said:
So, not agreeing with everything Israel does is now anti-Semitic/anti-Jew?

That's mind boggling narrow....
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It's fine not agreeing with their actions, policies or whatever. Just don't make stuff up or post completely false propaganda.
 
#523
#523
Pacer92 said:
Lol...
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Here are four serious questions and don't answer the questions with a quip or another question that allows you to pose as one who knows something the rest of us don't, but you're so smart you do.

Do you believe the Jews have any rights to Israel?

Do you believe the owner of land legally purchased has the right to evict tenants in a legal manner?

Does a country upon whom war is made have the right to control conquered lands of the defeated aggressors? eg. The lands conquered by England, France, and Russia in WWI?

How about Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Golan Heights, etc. conquered by Israel in 1967?
 
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