Is the problem Dobbs, or DeBord's use of Dobbs??

#26
#26
I think what you saw was a product of our game plan last night. We came in thinking we would pound the rock and not run Dobbs at all to prevent injury. We simply thought we could beat a very good app state team with our rbs. The playbook was very limited last night, and app st did an excellent job against our very vanilla O. We simply underestimated App St. and it almost lost us the game. The playbook will change drastically next week and Dobbs will use his wheels more. We have to show that Dobbs has improved in the deep passing game though because to this point he has been very subpar. You can not win the east with a qb who can't connect on passes deeper than 15 yds
 
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#27
#27
Dobbs missed one receiver running open on the left side before he threw the pick. If he had just went through his progressions..........
 
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#28
#28
He threw a great pass when they actually called a downfield pass and the line didn't collapse. Dobbs had three bad throws. The rest was horrible line play and predictable play calling.
 
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#29
#29
If you go back and look at the earlier games in the year you'll see that Debord for some reason is forcing dobbs to be a pocket passer I think it wasn't until later in the year and more towards the outback bowl game that it Didint click with him that dobbs is just better when he's making plays with his feet which opens up everything else for everyone I don't understand why Debord is making him stay in the pocket in a fast pass offense that's designed for the QB to scramble more times than what he did last night,also he's to f$&@&k predictable when it comes to play Calling
 
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#30
#30
lawgator1 said:
On the way in this morning was listening to "Full Ride" on XM with Rick Neuheisel and Chris Childers, and of course the game was a topic of conversation. The point that was being argued was that the Vols' offensive scheme is poorly designed when it comes to Dobbs. Dobbs is an athlete, a dual threat. He can throw downfield, but his real strength is that he is always a threat to run. The claim being made was that Dobbs' dual threat ability is underutilized by DeBord.

Personally, my feeling about Dobbs has always been that, while he's a threat to run and capable of making plays downfield, the reality is that he's a bit slow on the decisionmaking when faced with both choices. That is to say, he's fine with either one, if its what is called and the defense is in the right configuration for it to work that time.

If I'm right, the issue is not DeBord. In fact, it may well be that DeBord recognizes Dobbs' limitations, and is trying to manage the decisionmaking for him, from the booth.

If I'm wrong, the issue is indeed the scheme, and DeBord, not surrendering control and putting his faith in Dobbs to make good decisions.

A couple of plays stand out to me that its Dobbs. That wounded duck he threw up at the end of the first half, and another one on a third and long when he had to scramble he threw into a lot of coverage, down near your own 20 (don't remember the exact play or point of the game).
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I totally agree with this....
 
#31
#31
KBVol said:
DeBord and more importantly, Butch.

Josh has his shortcomings but for crying out loud, both DeBord and Butch give him no opportunity to succeed. Despite his shortcomings, Josh can do more than he's allowed to do, we've all seen it. It's constantly said that they don't trust him. Well if that's the case, after 4 years with him, just bench him and find somebody that you can trust, you got 3 more talented qbs on the roster. Either let Dobbs play and put him in a position to succeed or just move on from him. This is getting ridiculous.
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i truly dont think its that simple. the way i have observed butch coaching and his philosophy, maybe he doesn't want to trust any qb let alone dobbs to make hes own decision aka (audible/find the open man/stretch the field) its pretty clear the offensive mindset is basic off tackle run plays and simplistic route running. the route tree consist of smash/hitch/slant and they rely on timing. regardless of dobbs inabilities i dont see any other qb coming in and throwing it all over the field. its not the offensive philosophy
 
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#33
#33
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the damn O-Line knew how to block, so Dobbs wouldn't be running for his life on every pass play and Hurd would actually have a running lane. How the O-Line is STILL this damn bad, beats me.

But, if I had to choose between Dobbs and DeBord, I'd say it's DeBord. There were so many mind-numbly stupid play calls from last night it's not funny.
 
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#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
On the way in this morning was listening to "Full Ride" on XM with Rick Neuheisel and Chris Childers, and of course the game was a topic of conversation. The point that was being argued was that the Vols' offensive scheme is poorly designed when it comes to Dobbs. Dobbs is an athlete, a dual threat. He can throw downfield, but his real strength is that he is always a threat to run. The claim being made was that Dobbs' dual threat ability is underutilized by DeBord.

Personally, my feeling about Dobbs has always been that, while he's a threat to run and capable of making plays downfield, the reality is that he's a bit slow on the decisionmaking when faced with both choices. That is to say, he's fine with either one, if its what is called and the defense is in the right configuration for it to work that time.

If I'm right, the issue is not DeBord. In fact, it may well be that DeBord recognizes Dobbs' limitations, and is trying to manage the decisionmaking for him, from the booth.

If I'm wrong, the issue is indeed the scheme, and DeBord, not surrendering control and putting his faith in Dobbs to make good decisions.

A couple of plays stand out to me that its Dobbs. That wounded duck he threw up at the end of the first half, and another one on a third and long when he had to scramble he threw into a lot of coverage, down near your own 20 (don't remember the exact play or point of the game).
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The second play was in the 4th quarter if iirc...and yes, it was another bad decision by Dobbs...could've been extremely costly.

For all the praise of Dobbs mental qualities, he seems below average in calculating decisions quickly, whether it's throwing on time or recognizing pressure up front..
 
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#36
#36
Good grief volnation calm down. Dobbs played horrible and the decisions he made were very uncharacteristic. Dobbs is much better than the way he played last night. Debored drives me crazy. I was next to App State Fans and at one point I looked at them and said donts worry we will run up the gut 3 straight plays. We all knew what was coming and so did App State.
 
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#37
#37
What I noticed last night is that Josh seemed more hesitant or at least a little slower to run than last year. I wonder if they have been working on him staying in the pocket longer in order to improve his passing accuracy but it has served to stifle his innate sense of when to go to run mode. He just couldn't seem to find a comfort zone last night which if not corrected does not bode well for us.
 
#38
#38
KBVol said:
DeBord and more importantly, Butch.

Josh has his shortcomings but for crying out loud, both DeBord and Butch give him no opportunity to succeed. Despite his shortcomings, Josh can do more than he's allowed to do, we've all seen it. It's constantly said that they don't trust him. Well if that's the case, after 4 years with him, just bench him and find somebody that you can trust, you got 3 more talented qbs on the roster. Either let Dobbs play and put him in a position to succeed or just move on from him. This is getting ridiculous.
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I agree. If you don't trust a senior QB then wtf are we doing?
 
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#39
#39
Caculator said:
BJ
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he often just doesn't pick the right receiver to throw to , and forces sometimes into coverage, and just makes some poor throws, His mechanics break down, has the heart, athleticism, many good qualities, that make it hard to replace him.
 
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#40
#40
I think it's some of both.

For this offense to work, the QB has to run. Otherwise, you would be better off to line up in the I formation and run ISO's, traps, sweeps, and work play action off of that. Appy didn't take that away, we took it away from ourselves which made the rest of the offense look disjointed.

It's Dobbs in that he may be too smart for his own good, IMO. He may be suffering from paralysis by analysis waiting for the perfect situation before pulling the trigger. I think he needs to get out of his own head and just play football.
 
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#41
#41
You all need to take chill pills! Did it ever occur to you that -

1. This is the first game. There is going to be jitters and things to work on.
2. The game plan, right or wrong, may have been to be somewhat more vanilla (as some of you call it) on purpose.

The sky is not falling. The sun rose this morning. The Vols are 1-0.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
On the way in this morning was listening to "Full Ride" on XM with Rick Neuheisel and Chris Childers, and of course the game was a topic of conversation. The point that was being argued was that the Vols' offensive scheme is poorly designed when it comes to Dobbs. Dobbs is an athlete, a dual threat. He can throw downfield, but his real strength is that he is always a threat to run. The claim being made was that Dobbs' dual threat ability is underutilized by DeBord.

Personally, my feeling about Dobbs has always been that, while he's a threat to run and capable of making plays downfield, the reality is that he's a bit slow on the decisionmaking when faced with both choices. That is to say, he's fine with either one, if its what is called and the defense is in the right configuration for it to work that time.

If I'm right, the issue is not DeBord. In fact, it may well be that DeBord recognizes Dobbs' limitations, and is trying to manage the decisionmaking for him, from the booth.

If I'm wrong, the issue is indeed the scheme, and DeBord, not surrendering control and putting his faith in Dobbs to make good decisions.

A couple of plays stand out to me that its Dobbs. That wounded duck he threw up at the end of the first half, and another one on a third and long when he had to scramble he threw into a lot of coverage, down near your own 20 (don't remember the exact play or point of the game).
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Great Post Sir!!!
 
#46
#46
Debord is handicapped in play calling due to Dobbs inconsistency on his throws. His throws were consistently off target (the miss to Hurd in the 4th quarter may have been the worst) with a couple of exceptions. If you can't trust your QB to get the ball to the receiver, then traditionally an OC will attempt to compensate by running plays that he knows will at least gain a few yards.

Unlike many, I don't believe the play calling was vanilla to try to hide anything from upcoming opponents (all they have to do is pull up film from the last few years while Butch has been here to see the full extent of the playbook) or even to keep Dobbs from injury. I think the playcalling is designed as a risk mitigation strategy based on the inability to generate a consistent passing game.

With that said, IMO, the coaches need to turn Dobbs loose, open the playbook and let him sink or swim. If he can't get it done, then turn to the other QB's on the bench and suffer with the mistakes that will surely come and let them see if they can generate a more balanced attack.
 
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#47
#47
All of you who jump off ship so easily - please go away, root for someone else and don't come back and act like you have always been a fan when Tennessee is playing in the SEC title game.

First game - the team will learn from this and move on.
 
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#48
#48
Schizophrenic. We have a 'dual-threat QB' that cannot deliver an accurate pass, but our coaches decide he shouldn't risk injury by running. So Dobb's dithers in the pocket while any timing patterns fall apart, or hands the ball off to Hurd, whom the entire defense is key upon.

This whole team is hamstrung by an inability to deliver a timely and accurate pass to our many weapons. We have already forfeited the passing attack in favor of a two-dimensional running threat. Not running Dobbs was near fatal. Inexplicable.

Our talent is being wasted by a limited QB and no creativity by coaches. Get Dobbs throwing the football or replace him with someone who can.
 
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#49
#49
Exiled said:
Debord is handicapped in play calling due to Dobbs inconsistency on his throws. His throws were consistently off target (the miss to Hurd in the 4th quarter may have been the worst) with a couple of exceptions. If you can't trust your QB to get the ball to the receiver, then traditionally an OC will attempt to compensate by running plays that he knows will at least gain a few yards.

Unlike many, I don't believe the play calling was vanilla to try to hide anything from upcoming opponents (all they have to do is pull up film from the last few years while Butch has been here to see the full extent of the playbook) or even to keep Dobbs from injury. I think the playcalling is designed as a risk mitigation strategy based on the inability to generate a consistent passing game.

With that said, IMO, the coaches need to turn Dobbs loose, open the playbook and let him sink or swim. If he can't get it done, then turn to the other QB's on the bench and suffer with the mistakes that will surely come and let them see if they can generate a more balanced attack.
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That was my point from the OP, and answers the question. But that is my personal answer. I think there are some who believe its not Dobbs, its DeBord. Of course, there are those who also believe its the Oline.

Its interesting watching the discussion from a Gator's perspective. We all KNEW that the issue last year was having a 5'10" guy trying to run our offense. Never had a prayer. The oloine was marginal, but ok. There were some playmakers on offense, but Harris couldn't ever get them the ball.

But here, there are 11 players on offense, and there are 33 threads on why each one of them is THE problem.
 
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#50
#50
Biopsyman said:
He is not a QB.. He is an athlete playing QB
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Whatever. We've seen him be outstanding at times when the team has fallen behind and Butch can't defend just handing off to Hurd 12 times in a row. When we've needed him to in some big moments, when Butch and DeBord (and CMB) have opened things up he's responded more than once. Dobbs is what he is, but he could do so much more to reach his potential if Butch and DeBord would let him IMO.
 
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