Is Dobbs the best SEC QB in 2016?

#176
#176
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You're too beholden to stats. Do you even watch the games?

Also why didn't you respond to my other post where I discuss the difference in scheme and personnel between the two teams?

You guys are really creating aloy of great bump-able material here.

You will look real stupid by this time next year.
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We're "creating great bump able material"?? Haha. Jeez dude, you're absolutely obsessed with Josh saying things like he's a guaranteed heisman finalist and sure fire first rd NFL pick....and you're NOT creating bump able material? Lol.

I'm anything but anti Dobbs. If you'd honestly read through a number of threads on here rather than get your feelings hurt when anybody mentions Dobbs' accuracy issues, you'd see that I consistently defend him...and I do it with the statistics (you know, those pesky things that by and large are the best indicators we have that define a player's performance) that you want to marginalize and denigrate.

I think Josh, who was middle of the pack throwing the ball in the SEC this year, was a top 4 QB in the league behind Prescott, Allen and Kelly, and projects to be the second best QB in the conference behind Kelly next season....you know, ahead of the 12 other starting qbs in the SEC....boy that's really running him into the ground and worthy of you putting my posts in the D4H archives to be pulled out and bumped this time next year. And trust me, the more you keep incessantly pushing this, the more clearly it looks to everybody who's stupid on here.
 
#178
#178
johnrlansford said:
Didn't Ole Miss Lose to Memphis? But they beat Alabama....I don't know, I am torn between the 2. Dobbs may have the edge though imho.
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Surely you're not trying to make the case that Kelly isn't as good as Josh because his team lost one game (a game in which he threw for 372 yds and completing 70%to a pretty good Memphis team. It's along the lines of posters who want to try and convince people that Tee Martin, a career 55% thrower, was a great QB/passer at Tennessee because of the completion % record vs a 1-11 SCar team.

Kelly threw for 1500 more yards, 12 more Tds, averaged 2 more yards per attempt (which tells us he threw the ball down the field much more often and better) and completed a much higher percentage of his passes while doing so....over the course of 12 games, not just one.
 
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#180
#180
Dobbs might get first team SEC votes but I highly doubt he even gets acknowledged as an All American possibility much less a Heisman Trophy finalist.
 
#181
#181
KBVol said:
Surely you're not trying to make the case that Kelly isn't as good as Josh because his team lost one game (a game in which he threw for 372 yds and completing 70%to a pretty good Memphis team. It's along the lines of posters who want to try and convince people that Tee Martin, a career 55% thrower, was a great QB/passer at Tennessee because of the completion % record vs a 1-11 SCar team.

Kelly threw for 1500 more yards, 12 more Tds, averaged 2 more yards per attempt (which tells us he threw the ball down the field much more often and better) and completed a much higher percentage of his passes while doing so....over the course of 12 games, not just one.
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Not at all but I think he can be next year and the thread is called "Is Dobbs the best SEC QB in 2016?". Kelly was clearly the better QB this year, without a doubt. But I believe that Dobbs will be the better QB on the better team next year. Kelly was also throwing to Treadwell (who will declare for the draft if hes smart) who is hands down a better receiver than we have on the roster right now (According to production, not potential. maybe both)
 
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#182
#182
johnrlansford said:
Not at all but I think he can be next year and the thread is called "Is Dobbs the best SEC QB in 2016?". Kelly was clearly the better QB this year, without a doubt. But I believe that Dobbs will be the better QB on the better team next year. Kelly was also throwing to Treadwell (who will declare for the draft if hes smart) who is hands down a better receiver than we have on the roster right now (According to production, not potential. maybe both)
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And you brought up a 2015 game, Ole Miss vs Memphis, in an effort to disparage Kelly. So, accordingly, I addressed your points in that post, not who will be better in 2016.
 
#184
#184
fastnhappy said:
The point is that we WOULD throw more if Dobbs were more accurate. He runs this offense well, but this offense is mostly just handing it off. I think Butch would like to throw it down the field a little more to soften up the D for the CMG (stupid name, btw).

Dobbs is awesome in so many ways, but he's not a perfect QB, even for this system.
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I don't think we would throw more. Our offense is about wearing people down and making first downs.
 
#187
#187
jps2194 said:
So what exactly is your point? You said he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and I proved that to be an incorrect statement. :)

I'm honestly not sure what point you are trying to make by bashing Tee. If you are comparing Dobbs to Tee and trying to indicate Dobbs is as accurate or more than Tee, I'm not going to debate that because it is a stupid argument that is pointless and has absolutely no meaning for 2015 and 2016. However, if that is the argument you want to make, don't forget that Tee was 4th in 98 and 3rd in 99 in yards per attempt. Which is an indication they threw down the field significantly more than we do now which obviously drops your completion %.

Dobbs was 10th and I don't think anybody will deny the majority of our passes were within 5 yards of the LOS. Therefore, comparing completion % is comparing apples and oranges. Was Tee a better passer than Dobbs, who knows?
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No, you didn't prove anything whatsoever by pointing to one outlier game in Tee's career. He was not an accurate passer by any stretch of the imagination. People are blasting Dobbs for only completing 61% of his passes to date with a less talented WR Corp and virtually no NFL players around in comparison to the '98 and '99 teams Tee played for. Tee was a 55% completion guy during his time here which means that in addition to missing a lot of deep passes he also missed a lot of short and intermediate passes as well. And if your insistence is that Tee was actually a good, accurate passer based on his one outstanding performance vs South Carolina, I'll happily counter with his 9-26 performance vs Syracuse, his 10-27 performance vs Arky and his 64 total passing yards vs Florida in 1998....not to mention his 12-9 TD to int ratio the following year when he was a senior.

Josh Dobbs, for all his passing accuracy issues, is hands down a better passer, runner and playmaking QB than Tee ever was. Period.
 
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#188
#188
KBVol said:
No, you didn't prove anything whatsoever by pointing to one outlier game in Tee's career. He was not an accurate passer by any stretch of the imagination. People are blasting Dobbs for only completing 61% of his passes to date with a less talented WR Corp and virtually no NFL players around in comparison to the '98 and '99 teams Tee played for. Tee was a 55% completion guy during his time here which means that in addition to missing a lot of deep passes he also missed a lot of short and intermediate passes as well. And if your insistence is that Tee was actually a good, accurate passer based on his one outstanding performance vs South Carolina, I'll happily counter with his 9-26 performance vs Syracuse, his 10-27 performance vs Arky and his 64 total passing yards vs Florida in 1998....not to mention his 12-9 TD to int ratio the following year when he was a senior.

Josh Dobbs, for all his passing accuracy issues, is hands down a better passer, runner and playmaking QB than Tee ever was. Period.
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Again, what is your point? Can you not accept that your comment that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn was a stupid comment. My post was solely to point out that was not accurate (no pun intended). I never said he was a good accurate passer, I just pointed out the obvious that you neglected to acknowledge.

I also think its ridiculous to compare their %'s. Different offense completely.
 
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#189
#189
jps2194 said:
Again, what is your point? Can you not accept that your comment that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn was a stupid comment. My post was solely to point out that was not accurate. I never said he was a good accurate passer, I just pointed out the obvious that you neglected to acknowledge.

I also think its ridiculous to compare their %'s. Different offense completely.
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Relatively speaking, it was a statement of hyperbole for qbs who have severe accuracy issues throwing the football. Where Tee was concerned, it was beyond accurate and not remotely stupid. Fans let the team success of 1998 overwhelm them where Tee's performance was concerned and their remembrances of him. I recall Tee's time as UT's QB quite well and the constant, overwhelming criticism he received as Tennessee's QB due to his inability to throw the ball accurately with any consistency.

And what's actually quite stupid, IMHO, is picking out one outstanding game out of his 27 or so as a starter, which was an absolute anomaly, and trying to let that be the final arbiter regarding his abilities as a collegiate QB.

Tee was a winner with a penchant, in 1998 anyway, for coming up with a clutch play when the team needed it more often than not....even when he was in the midst of a poor individual game....think Florida and Syracuse games in 1998. But he was not, nor will he ever be, a great SEC QB. And I firmly stand behind my comments that Dobbs is a better passer, a better runner and a better overall playmaking QB than Tee was. It's not to take a shot a Tee or diminish his efforts at Tennessee, it's just to fight off the revisionist history about him that so many Vol fans engage in.
 
#190
#190
KBVol said:
Relatively speaking, it was a statement of hyperbole for qbs who have severe accuracy issues throwing the football. Where Tee was concerned, it was beyond accurate and not remotely stupid. Fans let the team success of 1998 overwhelm them where Tee's performance was concerned and their remembrances of him. I recall Tee's time as UT's QB quite well and the constant, overwhelming criticism he received as Tennessee's QB due to his inability to throw the ball accurately with any consistency.

And what's actually quite stupid, IMHO, is picking out one outstanding game out of his 27 or so as a starter, which was an absolute anomaly, and trying to let that be the final arbiter regarding his abilities as a collegiate QB.

Tee was a winner with a penchant, in 1998 anyway, for coming up with a clutch play when the team needed it more often than not....even when he was in the midst of a poor individual game....think Florida and Syracuse games in 1998. But he was not, nor will he ever be, a great SEC QB. And I firmly stand behind my comments that Dobbs is a better passer, a better runner and a better overall playmaking QB than Tee was. It's not to take a shot a Tee or diminish his efforts at Tennessee, it's just to fight off the revisionist history about him that so many Vol fans engage in.
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Look, I'm not on here saying he was a great QB and an accurate passer. However, you can't deny that at times he was accurate and to deny that makes you look foolish. Had you said with one exception, he sucked, then that's fine. But you asked for somebody to bring you an example of him being accurate and I did. Furthermore, i did not let one game be the final arbiter. You are reading too much into it.
 
#191
#191
jps2194 said:
Look, I'm not on here saying he was a great QB and an accurate passer. However, you can't deny that at times he was accurate and to deny that makes you look foolish. Had you said with one exception, he sucked, then that's fine. But you asked for somebody to bring you an example of him being accurate and I did. Furthermore, i did not let one game be the final arbiter. You are reading too much into it.
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Would've assumed that when talking about a player we're talking about his full body of work, don't you think? That would be the common sense, logical and fair way to do it IMO. Again, what's foolish is for someone to try and make their point about a player while only considering about 1/27 of his career.

I once saw Michael Jordan shoot like 9/35 in a playoff game....but I won't start a discussion with you with the premise that he sucked and couldn't shoot a basketball because of that one game. I've been as fair as I can be about Tee's career at Tennessee....he was a very inaccurate passer who did some special, timely things during a very special season in 1998. But on balance, he simply wasn't a very good passing collegiate QB, his game vs SCar in 1998 notwithstanding.
 
#192
#192
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You're too beholden to stats. Do you even watch the games?

Also why didn't you respond to my other post where I discuss the difference in scheme and personnel between the two teams?

You guys are really creating aloy of great bump-able material here.

You will look real stupid by this time next year.
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I hope we do, but that still won't change the fact that you are as clueless as a blind monkey trying to wipe his butt.
 
#193
#193
vols 30 said:
Yes
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#194
#194
KBVol said:
Would've assumed that when talking about a player we're talking about his full body of work, don't you think? That would be the common sense, logical and fair way to do it IMO. Again, what's foolish is for someone to try and make their point about a player while only considering about 1/27 of his career.

I once saw Michael Jordan shoot like 9/35 in a playoff game....but I won't start a discussion with you with the premise that he sucked and couldn't shoot a basketball because of that one game. I've been as fair as I can be about Tee's career at Tennessee....he was a very inaccurate passer who did some special, timely things during a very special season in 1998. But on balance, he simply wasn't a very good passing collegiate QB, his game vs SCar in 1998 notwithstanding.
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Okay, you win. I can see this is pointless. I reacted to your statement saying he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and you refuse to accept that was the basis for my comment. You keep trying to twist this into me saying Tee is a great QB and is better than JD, despite me never saying that.
 
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#195
#195
jps2194 said:
Okay, you win. I can see this is pointless. I reacted to your statement saying he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and you refuse to accept that was the basis for my comment. You keep trying to twist this into me saying Tee is a great QB and is better than JD, despite me never saying that.
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I did indeed win. Thanks.
 
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#198
#198
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Its hilarious how the best QB we've had since Peyton Manning gets no respect here.

You'll miss him when he's gone.
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It didn't help him that people like you were hyping him for the Heisman this year, when anyone who had watched him play knew he wasn't ready for that.
 
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