Is CJH our Mark Richt/Bo Pelini

[#1fulmerite]

Offseason and still have wait time till season starts so, another one of “these” threads.

I keep reading here how well CJH has done and how well we think he is doing. I, for one, cannot complain, at all!

I also read on here our guesses to not only this year’s record but what we all think the record will be each year. The consensus seems to be 9/10 wins with some stating 7 wins for past three all the way to 11 wins and automatic CFP spot each year.

My question is, is CJH our Richt/Pelini where we average 9/10 wins each year with a bowl game each year and, maybe win three out of five of those? My next question is, if so, will you be content with that unlike Georgia and Nebraska?

 

[TrumpedUpVol]

Nebraska never should have fired Bo, especially given how Osborne's tenure went. Osborne had solid/great years forever until he broke through and won the big one and then it was like a running faucet. Bo was consistent, who knows if he'd have ever won it all but have you seen the Cornhuskers since he was canned?

Tennessee is not in the catbird seat like Georgia. Firing a guy who consistently makes the CFP (which remains to be seen) would be nuts.

 

[Voltopia]

lol okay ... so, keeping track, it's the Bobby Bowden question. Or put more directly, "Are you content winning most of the games but never championships?" Mixed in with a little "Do you think Heupel can do any better than he's already done?"

I can't imagine anyone who would say yes to #1. And I can't see how anyone can know the answer to #2 yet.

 

[TC 83]

Georgia was content with Richt because he was getting good recruits/results. He just got stagnant and had a couple of bad seasons. It happens--but he had the program on solid footing and Kirby just took it over the top. Similar to Majors/Fulmer I suppose. We were just a dumpster fire for over a decade and I'm happy to be somewhat relevant again. So even if CJH doesn't get us to the promise land, at least we look more enticing for another coach. No elite coaches wanted to come here. It's so hard to win a title and honestly I'd be happy with 9-10 wins each year. That at least gives you a shot at the playoff and making a run. My Vol football soul has been humbled over the last decade, and I appreciate what CJH has done. Also, I love seeing the defense coming back like last season and being solid.

 

[HeuperDrive]

lol okay ... so, keeping track, it's the Bobby Bowden question. Or put more directly, "Are you content winning most of the games but never championships?" Mixed in with a little "Do you think Heupel can do any better than he's already done?"

I can't imagine anyone who would say yes to #1. And I can't see how anyone can know the answer to #2 yet.

Yeah, this question isn’t even possible to answer yet lol. We’re only just now getting past our scholarship restrictions for Christ's sake. Ask us again in 2029.

But if being our Mark Richt means regular CFP appearances, competing with our rivals, and being a football team that teams are afraid to play again-sign me up.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

lol okay ... so, keeping track, it's the Bobby Bowden question. Or put more directly, "Are you content winning most of the games but never championships?" Mixed in with a little "Do you think Heupel can do any better than he's already done?"

I can't imagine anyone who would say yes to #1. And I can't see how anyone can know the answer to #2 yet.

Bowden was top 5 every year for almost two decades. He won titles in the middle and towards the end of that streak.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Bo Pelini? Come on man. If Mark Richt had coached at UGA in the CFP era he probably would’ve won a national title . 2002 they were very good and in 2007 they were playing good football at the end of the season (even though we beat that ass in Neyland).

 

[HeuperDrive]

Bo Pelini? Come on man. If Mark Richt had coached at UGA in the CFP era he probably would’ve won a national title . 2002 they were very good and in 2007 they were playing good football at the end of the season (even though we beat that ass in Neyland).

Even without the CFP, Georgia was one deflected pass away from winning the SEC in 2012, and they’d have probably ripped Notre Dame apart in the championship much like Bama did.

would have been interesting to see the perception of Richt had that happened.

 

[Voltopia]

Bowden was top 5 every year for almost two decades. He won titles in the middle and towards the end of that streak.

He was, but he coached at FSU for 16 years (and won an average of 9.5 games per season during that time) before winning his first championship. And FSU had a reputation of winning 10-12 games most years but almost never winning the big one. A lot of 11-1 years. In other words, sustained good-to-great results, rare title contention. Part of the devil's deal of being in the ACC back then.

It was a frequent conversation topic online and in person all through the 1990s. Would you rather be in the SEC, which was harder, or pull a Bobby Bowden and slide through to an easy 10+ win schedule in the ACC every year?

 

[1SmokinVol]

Seriously? Dude just made the 8 team playoffs in year 4. Would have made it Hookers senior year if not for Cheaters giving our plays away because our team scared the shitz out of them/
Want to win Champeenships now, get the collective to pay up- ALA Texas and Ohio State, highest payrolls in NCAA last year.

 

[Volizona]

I think another comparison would be like Fulmer. Outside of his 4-5 peak years, he got CJH type results and tended to lose at least one questionable game each year. They are both clap on the sidelines kind of guys who don’t wear their passion on their sleeves. Likewise some of their game planning and adjustments are question marks. Have we learned anything from our dark years? This time around we may be more satisfied with this type of coach vs what we saw during our worst years.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

My initial reaction is to respond No.

Unlike Mark Richt, Josh Heupel has NO SHORTAGE of drive to win championships. He can be a top notch recruiter, developer, schemer, leader, motivator, and game day play caller. He has all the tools to win titles.

But...

The one big unknown is whether Heupel's rather unique offense will over time drive away top receivers.* And whether Josh could adjust his scheme to be at least a bit more pro style were that to happen...to draw them back again.

Because we can't win championships without great receivers. I know, QBs love this offense, that's no problem. I know, we're primarily a run offense, so RBs and TEs and linemen will flock here as well. And because we're a run-oriented offense, we don't depend as much on the passing game as some might think.

Nonetheless, to beat the very best, you have to have great defense, AND solid special teams, AND a great run game, AND a great passing game.

Ironically, given how we all felt early on, say in the Hendon Hooker season, it is the passing game--or recruiting for the passing game, more specifically--that might be the weak link. Too early to know for sure, but that's my one concern.

So...Too Early To Tell.

Go Vols!



* Because of the perception among some in pro football and the media that the Heupel offense doesn't prepare a receiver well for the NFL. This conversation started a couple of months ago after comments by Dont'e Thornton. Google it if you missed that.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Even without the CFP, Georgia was one deflected pass away from winning the SEC in 2012, and they’d have probably ripped Notre Dame apart in the championship much like Bama did.

would have been interesting to see the perception of Richt had that happened.

Yep. Forgot about that. They would’ve boat raced Notre Dame.

 

[YankeeVol]

Too early to tell.

The QB situation this year doesn't help*.

His recruiting has been very good, but needs to be slightly better (8th in the SEC).

*I think we are better off with Joey Football.

 

[RockyTopTexas]

Id take Mark

 

[Special Ed]

Please don't take our coach's name in vain by comparing/contrasting him to other coaches.
In Josh We Trust.

 

[VOLfrombama]

I love what CJH has done since he got here. We are respectable again. I am eternally grateful for the last 4 seasons.

That being said, there's not a VFL in the universe who doesn't wish he would take the next step as a recruiter, game planner, play caller, in game adjustments, clock management, handling of his team in big games on the road, etc.

It's too early to tell if he can take the next step as a coach. But if he doesn't then the OP's comparisons will be there.

 

[BruisedOrange]

Ask again in 10 years. But a Marc Richt is a standard to shoot for, not a failure to avoid.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Like Richt? Christ, I hope so! A career 10 win average and a couple of conference championships would be amazing!

 

[orangebloodgmc]

Pelini is a piece of shyte. Read his comments in his Wikipedia page. He was a failure as an LSU DC and got fired for that. As a head coach at Youngstown State, was barely above .500. Anybody comparing him to Heupel is just another troll, begging to be put on ignore.

 

[bpalmer28]

this thread deserves kidney stones

 

[WillisWG]

 

[vegasvolfan]

Offseason and still have wait time till season starts so, another one of “these” threads.

I keep reading here how well CJH has done and how well we think he is doing. I, for one, cannot complain, at all!

I also read on here our guesses to not only this year’s record but what we all think the record will be each year. The consensus seems to be 9/10 wins with some stating 7 wins for past three all the way to 11 wins and automatic CFP spot each year.

My question is, is CJH our Richt/Pelini where we average 9/10 wins each year with a bowl game each year and, maybe win three out of five of those? My next question is, if so, will you be content with that unlike Georgia and Nebraska?

Definitely too early to tell. Right now, the answer is no.

First of all, Richt coached at Georgia for 15 years and Heupel is on year 5. Second, we haven’t won the East since 2007. Its been even longer since we have won the conference.

Mark won five Eastern Division titles and two SEC championships in 15 years, while our entire program has won only 6 division titles and 2 conference championships since 1997 (28 years). Fulmer being responsible for all of that, and is probably the better comparison to Richt. Yes, I know, Fulmer won the big one, and one more SEC division title in one more year of coaching, but hie did most of that before Richt took over at Georgia.

The caveat is that the SEC has added more teams and has grown in its level of competition from the years of Fulmer and Richt. So, anyone accomplishing similar outcomes is most likely accomplishing more.

Still, when you consider what both of those guys did with regards to winning divisions, and how fast they did it into their tenure, I still think you have to at least have a division title or 2 in your pocket over at least a decade of coaching one team for there to be any realistic comparison.

Huepel certainly could prove to be every bit as good, if not better than both of those coaches and many others and has certainly done wonders with the dumpster fire he inherited. That brings up another point when putting Huepel’s performance in perspective and comparing/contrasting Heupel to other coaches. Richt and Fulmer inherited consistent 8:9 win teams that were in good standing. Huepel inherited restrictions and what was left of a transfer-riddled team that posted 4, 5 and 3 win records in three of its previous 4 seasons. If my math is right, Tennessee averaged just 6 wins per season over the previous 13 seasons.

I’m not sure enough people have yet to fully grasp or keep in perspective enough how far Tennessee fell before Heupel took over the program, so I will just sit back and wait until he’s had more time. This year could get pretty ugly if that OL doesn’t take a step forward,

 

[Titans4Vols]

Everyone would have said Ryan Day was Ohio State's Mark Richt until this past year.

Fact of the matter is winning championships requires a mix of great talent, great coaching and a good amount of luck. If you have a coach and culture that keeps giving you opportunities to win a title, you roll with them until they stop providing that. In 4 years, Heupel has given us 2 playoff caliber years, after taking over a program that hadn't won double digit games since 2007, and hadn't even sniffed being a top 12 team since then either.

Unless Nick Saban discovers the fountain of youth and wants to become the coach of the Vols, you don't even think of replacing Heupel unless results show a consistent trend towards falling off.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Lawd...Bo couldn't carry Mark's jockstrap.

Mark had like 200 wins and Bo had 4.

Ok, so I didn't research that last fact.