Is America Degenerating?

#51
#51
1. I don't believe in loan forgiveness. at all. cant afford it, don't get it.
2. the community colleges are cheap and often subsidized by the local industries or work directly with them.

but yes it is a great idea and the students have a ridiculous success rate of finding jobs, which is what is needed. my work has actually worked with the TN CCs and has helped them go through and find out which programs are worth it and to cut it. something larger colleges dont do. and people think a degree is what matters, when its the actual knowledge. again placing value in the wrong place
 
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#52
#52
volprof said:
Louder, your point about the community colleges and "medium-skill" pay is one reason why I support universal two year community college for free, if an individual wants it. Not four years of college and not two years anywhere a student pleases. Two years of community college free. I don't think that people who are against such an initiative quite understand how much money that can save us in student loan debt and in entitlements that would otherwise have to be spent on the uneducated and unskilled. I think it would save money in the long-run, but I think four years free (like what Bernie is advocating for, I believe) is too much.
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Trades learned in a two year CC setting could and should be available in HS.
 
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#53
#53
hog88 said:
Trades learned in a two year CC setting could and should be available in HS.
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I think we risk producing a society of even bigger mouthbreathers than what we currently have, if you can imagine that, but you may be right. There may be a need to explore how such a paradigm would work. Heck, elite private schools are already preparing the sons and daughters of the titans of industry to be the next creative wave, so I don't suppose it would hurt for lower-class and middle-class schools to go ahead and gear themselves towards skilled physical labor and tech job training. You can already hear the criticisms coming from some though that such a model is just perpetuating the current class system, which it is. But, beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.
 
#55
#55
volprof said:
I think we risk producing a society of even bigger mouthbreathers than what we currently have, if you can imagine that, but you may be right. There may be a need to explore how such a paradigm would work. Heck, elite private schools are already preparing the sons and daughters of the titans of industry to be the next creative wave, so I don't suppose it would hurt for lower-class and middle-class schools to go ahead and gear themselves towards skilled physical labor and tech job training. You can already hear the criticisms coming from some though that such a model is just perpetuating the current class system, which it is. But, beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.
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It took me a couple reads to (maybe) understand your point and let's be clear, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Lets face it, at lest 1/2 the kids in high school have no business even attempting to go to college, yet we force the belief on them all that they must or will have no future. The reality is our high schools are turning out kids that have no marketable skills. Many of these kids go off to college, take out loans and fail, resulting in a high school graduate who still has no marketable skills but saddled with debt.

IMO we need to have two paths in our high schools, college and career. We need to be training kids in the technical and trade fields that are in demand for those kids that want to follow the path. For those who want to be "Titans of Industry", doctors, lawyer, CPAs and such there should be a college path. Point being is that no kid should be able to graduate high school and be unemployable. We all know that once a good many of them are not required to be in school (free or not) they wont be.
 
#56
#56
hog88 said:
It took me a couple reads to (maybe) understand your point and let's be clear, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Lets face it, at lest 1/2 the kids in high school have no business even attempting to go to college, yet we force the belief on them all that they must or will have no future. The reality is our high schools are turning out kids that have no marketable skills. Many of these kids go off to college, take out loans and fail, resulting in a high school graduate who still has no marketable skills but saddled with debt.

IMO we need to have two paths in our high schools, college and career. We need to be training kids in the technical and trade fields that are in demand for those kids that want to follow the path. For those who want to be "Titans of Industry", doctors, lawyer, CPAs and such there should be a college path. Point being is that no kid should be able to graduate high school and be unemployable. We all know that once a good many of them are not required to be in school (free or not) they wont be.
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This is largely what many European countries do. It makes good sense. Otherwise we are often forcing square pegs into round holes and doing some kids a major injustice.
 
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