Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn't have the intangibles

#26
#26
I don't think it's all JG fault, he was never developed under Jones. Last year he had a RB's coach from Utah State as his QB coach. The kid struggles with pre snap reads, he has no feel for the game and he doesn't go through his reads fast enough at this time to be successful in this league. I know he had a good game against Auburn but he got killed and I know everyone talks about his toughness but a lot of it is self inflicted. How many times was Chryst hit on Saturday? Just curious
 
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#31
#31
It is funny, but I remember watching Peyton and Tee warm up before the Orange Bowl and Tee threw a much “prettier” ball. And it was noticeable to even an arm chair observer like me.

Many have thrown a prettier ball than Peyton, but very few, if any, have delivered it on time and in the right place as well as he did.
 
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#32
#32
Volsfaninva917 said:
Those were 50/50 balls, just throwing them up for grabs. We have big, physical receivers
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I am not a football expert (that would be one of the blue wizards whose names have long since been forgotten) but even I know that over the shoulder catches 40+ yards downfield in stride are NOT 50/50 BALLS!

And Saint Peyton was notorious for throwing wobbly ducks. But oddly, a lot of those ducks ended up landing in the right place at the right time. Beauty is as beauty does.
 
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#33
#33
Gandalf said:
I am not a football expert (that would be one of the blue wizards whose names have long since been forgotten) but even I know that over the shoulder catches 40+ yards downfield in stride are NOT 50/50 BALLS!
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He did play a good game against auburn but he was still throwing the deep ball late and short. The receivers bailed him out a lot with great catches all day at Auburn.
 
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#34
#34
VOLinAL said:
JG does have a real big problem recognizing a blitz. JG has played/started like what...12 games give or take. He just doesnt have what it takes. The Auburn game was more on our receivers than anything. The article is spot on. KC should play from here on out.
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Just because some think Chryst is better, doesn't devalue what he did vs Auburn. All of those 50/50 balls took skill to place in the right spot. FWIW, I'd probably give Chryst a shot this week, at least to start the game to see if we can finally score a touchdown in Q1.
 
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#37
#37
Why do we keep getting these top rated QBs who just doesnt have the IT factor when they take the field for UT?
 
#39
#39
Gandalf said:
I am not a football expert (that would be one of the blue wizards whose names have long since been forgotten) but even I know that over the shoulder catches 40+ yards downfield in stride are NOT 50/50 BALLS!

And Saint Peyton was notorious for throwing wobbly ducks. But oddly, a lot of those ducks ended up landing in the right place at the right time. Beauty is as beauty does.
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What receiver did he hit in stride down the sideline vs. Auburn? I know he hit Chandler out of the backfield but other than that who did he hit in stride? The 50/50 balls I was referring to were the "back shoulder" throws he threw in double coverage to Callaway and I believe Palmer.
 
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#41
#41
It's a valid criticism of JG (unlike most of the ones we typically see here at VN). JG is still too slow to throw the ball sometimes and still struggles at times to read the defense. He's improved this season, though, and the flip-side is that he's absolutely one of the most accurate pure passers in all of college football.

Chryst and JG are pretty even overall IMO, with Chryst being better at reading defenses and JG being better at throwing very accurate deep passes. The problem with Chryst over JG isn't even really a problem with Chryst so much as it's a problem with our O-line.

Our O-line can not run block. We're averaging like 1-2 yards per carry right now against quality defenses. You can't win games like that.

JG gives us a better shot at winning precisely because what you saw against Auburn; he can throw the deep ball and spread the defense. With JG, it at least improves the odds for our run game. Against Chryst, it becomes easier for defenses to simply shut down the run. If we had Stanford's offensive line, it would be a different story, but we don't. Therefore, I think JG gives us a better shot at winning, and we saw that versus Auburn.

But it's absolutely true that JG needs to read defenses better to be elite. It's also true that he had crappy QB coaching for most of his early career here, so he might continue to improve rapidly.
 
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#43
#43
UT-Rex said:
Re: those things maybe you don’t recognize as a fan,

Good post, and many thanks.

Do the Coaches recognize, it?

I saw a look on tv, b/w Helton and Chryst (and I think a fist-bump) after his first (or second) td pass -- I liked that look b/w coach and player.

The fans aren't the ones making the starting line-up, nor are we the ones coaching the OL to protect the starting qb -- but many fans have been seeing something's not right with this OL and it's ability to protect the starting qb (goodness, Josh Dobbs was sacked 6 times agains Mizz several years ago and this still persists).

Patience, I suppose.
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IMO, they see the physical upside of JG and hope he will play into that next level talked about in the article. There are guys here whose heads explode any time you criticize JG.... but this article expresses what I've been arguing since before the season began.
 
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#44
#44
Cartervol said:
He's been hit too many times with a guy coming free. That's not all on the Oline. That's why when Chryst came in it looked different. Thing is there is something about Chryst they don't like. Probably lack of a deep ball that has kept him sidelined.
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So I take it you think KC should start? Correct me if I'm worng!
 
#45
#45
DiderotsGhost said:
It's a valid criticism of JG (unlike most of the ones we typically see here at VN). JG is still too slow to throw the ball sometimes and still struggles at times to read the defense. He's improved this season, though, and the flip-side is that he's absolutely one of the most accurate pure passers in all of college football.

Chryst and JG are pretty even overall IMO, with Chryst being better at reading defenses and JG being better at throwing very accurate deep passes. The problem with Chryst over JG isn't even really a problem with Chryst so much as it's a problem with our O-line.

Our O-line can not run block. We're averaging like 1-2 yards per carry right now against quality defenses. You can't win games like that.

JG gives us a better shot at winning precisely because what you saw against Auburn; he can throw the deep ball and spread the defense. With JG, it at least improves the odds for our run game. Against Chryst, it becomes easier for defenses to simply shut down the run. If we had Stanford's offensive line, it would be a different story, but we don't. Therefore, I think JG gives us a better shot at winning, and we saw that versus Auburn.

But it's absolutely true that JG needs to read defenses better to be elite. It's also true that he had crappy QB coaching for most of his early career here, so he might continue to improve rapidly.
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Don't entirely disagree but KC's most significant PT came against Bama with the Vols already down 28 points. IIRC, UT actually ran the ball a tad better after KC came in. But again, not a good sample size.

The things in that article are why JG didn't win the job last year and why he continues to struggle many times.

Who in particular has been unfair to JG? I don't see anyone hating on him as much as responding to people who hatefully deny the things in this article.
 
#46
#46
About 90% of JG's flaws are masked if he had a decent (it doesn't even have to be great, just decent) offensive line. I think he shows a lack of awareness about his line when it does take him too long to get the ball out or he doesn't make adjustments at the line. In other words he plays as if he is assuming his offensive line is good and will give him time to throw when that is a shaky assumption. I think Helton could help him out a little bit better too at times and call some plays that don't take as long to develop.
 
#47
#47
nash101 said:
Fans who’ve said the same things all year aren’t “haters”. I want to see JG play like he did against Auburn every game - and once he learns from film study and practice enough to overcome these mistakes, hopefully he will.

I’d like to see KC get the start against S.C. maybe he gets our offense going early and if not JG can come off the bench to provide a spark (would be a nice luxury to let him rest the injury a full week though)

Next year our Oline will be better (after a second year of actual S&C and a real OL coach instead of a ballet instructor). I think JG will benefit from actual coaching too and will come into his own next year with more games like he had against Auburn.
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KC will never be the Starting QB while JG is healthy.If you cant see this then you have an agenda plain and simple! Garbage time vs a team that has dialed down pressure, short slant throws when they allowed him to throw,,,,, answer this, how many deep balls did KC throw in the second half? Point made.
 
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#48
#48
At the end of the day I don’t think it matter much who starts. Neither one of them is a game changer. Just ride this season out with whoever has the hot hand and hope Shrout or Maurer pans out next year.
 
#49
#49
05_never_again said:
About 90% of JG's flaws are masked if he had a decent (it doesn't even have to be great, just decent) offensive line. I think he shows a lack of awareness about his line when it does take him too long to get the ball out or he doesn't make adjustments at the line. In other words he plays as if he is assuming his offensive line is good and will give him time to throw when that is a shaky assumption. I think Helton could help him out a little bit better too at times and call some plays that don't take as long to develop.
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Agreed. And Chryst strengths IMO help mask an OL that doesn't consistently give time.

I think if the OL is fairly consistent JG has the tools to make the offense better than Chryst but today, if JG can't go Im plenty comfortable with Chryst. I think he reduces the number of sacks your offense takes on which reduces the number of strip sacks (catastrophic ends).
 
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