IRS admits to targeting Conservative groups

[hndog609]

They should have had all emails go through a server and saved. I agree. But I can easily believe it's buffoonery not shenanigans.

Even setting aside the specific argument at hand I'm having a hell of a time reconciling how easily you seem to accept this with how much faith you seem to put in the governments handling of so many other things. If you REALLY believe these people to be this incompetent then you should really back way, WAY off in what you consider them capable of handling...like healthcare.

 

[lawgator1]

And you also think it's "highly likely" there were no shenanigans given that these "failures" occurred within days/weeks of notification that there would be an investigation?

As an attorney (i.e. someone who is supposed to look beyond the obvious) I have a hard time believing that you don't find this disconcerting.

You are reading "news reports" from far right blogs and media which are in turn cherry picking the ones to talk about. There have been thousands of such failures at IRS and other agencies but you act as though it was isolated to the conspiracy participants. Absurd.

 

[utvolpj]

If a Corp did email retention like this they would be paying huge fines and possible other penalties. When an org that can remove money from your bank account or paycheck and put you in jail does it they get a pass. Yeah, I can see how small govt people are crazy

I also don't believe for a second that those emails have disappeared.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

You are reading "news reports" from far right blogs and media which are in turn cherry picking the ones to talk about. There have been thousands of such failures at IRS and other agencies but you act as though it was isolated to the conspiracy participants. Absurd.

That's right... I forgot about your amazing Carnac the Magnificent skills. I failed to realize that you know more about where I get my news and what I think... than I do.

How absurd indeed.

 

[lawgator1]

If a Corp did email retention like this they would be paying huge fines and possible other penalties. When an org that can remove money from your bank account or paycheck and put you in jail does it they get a pass. Yeah, I can see how small govt people are crazy

I also don't believe for a second that those emails have disappeared.

Fines?

Link please.

 

[Grand Vol]

Fines?

Link please.

For items involving finances and whatnot?

You don't think the IRS and SEC would come down like a ton of bricks on any company that claimed to lose emails if they were being investigated? Don't make me laugh.

 

[Grand Vol]

I also don't believe for a second that those emails have disappeared.

I think those emails are gone and will never be retrieved. They've had what, two years to get rid of them?

And if, here's a big if, they had only implicated Lerner, she would have been sacrificed a long time ago. Which leads me to my tin foil hat theory it goes much higher which is why they are missing.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

LG, you sir, are hysterical & :crazy: at the same time defending this crap to no end. You just don't see & hear how crazy you sound defending this idiotic government that's been put into place.

 

[red butler]

I think those emails are gone and will never be retrieved. They've had what, two years to get rid of them?

And if, here's a big if, they had only implicated Lerner, she would have been sacrificed a long time ago. Which leads me to my tin foil hat theory it goes much higher which is why they are missing.

Want to hear a tin foil theory? The GOP is making a big show, but have they really tried to get the emails? We do know, based on actions taken during the primaries the GOP would stoop pretty low to defeat the Tea Party. What if there were high level Repubs on some of the emails? What if someone completely outside of the government was giving the IRS instructions? Of course we will never know, but I think if congress were serious they could get the emails.

 

[Grand Vol]

Want to hear a tin foil theory? The GOP is making a big show, but have they really tried to get the emails? We do know, based on actions taken during the primaries the GOP would stoop pretty low to defeat the Tea Party. What if there were high level Repubs on some of the emails? What if someone completely outside of the government was giving the IRS instructions? Of course we will never know, but I think if congress were serious they could get the emails.

Maybe, but that's almost too tin foil-ish for me.

I'd just say the emails are gone and likely will never be found.

 

[red butler]

Maybe, but that's almost too tin foil-ish for me.

I'd just say the emails are gone and likely will never be found.

Me too. I was just wondering if anyone else was thinking something similar in the back of their minds.

 

[volinbham]

Great - now it turns out that the DOJ who is supposed to be "investigating" the IRS targeting was trying to spin the story in favor of the Dem perspective.

Any fair minded person at this point should be demanding an independent investigation

Issa: Holder aide caught red-handed | TheHill

Could the Justice Department get some help leaking information about the IRS’s scrutiny of conservative groups? asked Brian Fallon, a top spokesman for Attorney General Eric Holder.

Apparently thinking he had reached the office of Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.), Fallon said the department wanted congressional staffers to get documents to selected reporters so that officials could comment on them “before the majority” did.
After Issa spokesman Frederick Hill replied that Oversight Committee staffers would have to examine those documents first, the line went silent, and Fallon placed the call on hold for three minutes.

When he returned to the line, Fallon was “audibly shaken,” according to an account of the conversation that Issa recounts in a letter sent to Holder.

The Justice official then said there had been a “change in plans,” that no documents would be released on Friday and that the main reason for the call was to seek a thaw in relations between the department and Oversight Republicans.



Read more: Issa: Holder aide caught red-handed | TheHill
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Let the Sgt. Schultz' continue to claim "I see nuthink"

 

[govols/cc]

I accidentally erased my blackberry & slammed it on the ground. All those deleted emails was an accident too.

 

[Gramps]

I accidentally erased my blackberry & slammed it on the ground. All those deleted emails was an accident too.

Aaah, the wife catching on to your shenanigans. Had to destroy the phone. Lois would be proud of the way you handled that. :crazy:

 

[Orange_Crush]

You guys are the ones insisting that, not only was there an organized and systemic conservative witch hunt, but that there is now an organized and systemic cover up going on. And that the hundreds who would have to have been a part of one or the other are all staying mum. And that it is so well done that at this point your ONLY evidence of it is that there is no evidence.

Take the tin foil hats off and think about that for a moment.

Listen to yourself. They wipe clean a dozen computers plus everyone maintains silence ?

Absolute garbage.

Care to revisit, lg?

Would you consider DoJ (you know, the guys 'investigating' the IRS) implication and refusal to release information an 'organized' and 'systematic' cover-up?

“These new documents dramatically show how the Justice Department is up to its neck in the IRS scandal and can’t be trusted to investigate crimes associated with the IRS abuses that targeted Obama’s critics. And it is of particular concern that the DOJ’s Public Integrity Section, which would ordinarily investigate the IRS abuses, is now implicated in the IRS crimes. No wonder the Department of Justice under Eric Holder has done no serious investigation of the Obama IRS scandal,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “It is shameful how Establishment Washington has let slide by Obama’s abuse of the IRS and the Justice Department. Only as a result of Judicial Watch’s independent investigations did the American people learn about the IRS-DOJ prosecution discussions of Obama’s political enemies and how the IRS sent, in violation of law, confidential taxpayer information to the FBI and DOJ in 2010. Richard Nixon was impeached for less.”

Judicial Watch Lawsuit Forces Release of DOJ Emails Showing IRS

It has to be embarrassing to the DOJ, which may not be the most impartial one to be investigating the IRS. In fact, the DOJ withheld over 800 pages of Lerner documents citing “taxpayer privacy” and “deliberative privilege.” Yet these internal DOJ documents show Ms. Lerner was talking to DOJ officials about prosecuting tax-exempt entities (yes, criminally!) two years before the IRS conceded there was inappropriate targeting.

Obama Justice Department Was Involved In IRS Targeting, Lerner Emails Reveal - Forbes

After this email exchange, Lerner handed things off to Senior Technical Adviser and Attorney Nancy Marks, who was in charge of setting up a meeting with DOJ.

Just a few short days later on May 10, 2013, Lerner admitted and apologized for the inappropriate targeting of conservative tea party groups during an American Bar Association Conference after answering a planted question. Further according to Judicial Watch, "In an email to an aide responding to a request for information from a Washington Post reporter, Lerner admits that she “can’t confirm that there was anyone on the other side of the political spectrum” who had been targeted by the IRS. She then adds that “The one with the names used were only know [sic] because they have been very loud in the press.”

In other words, only conservative groups were being looked at for criminal prosecution.

Last week news broke that Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings' staff was in contact with Lerner about the conservative group True the Vote, despite denying any contact occurred. In this specific instance of Lerner discussing possible criminal prosecution of tax-exempt groups through DOJ, Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse seems to have been the person to get the ball rolling.

"As I mentioned yesterday -- there are several groups of folks from the FEC world that are pushing tax fraud prosecution for c4s who report they are not conducting political activity when they are (or these folks think they are). One is my ex-boss Larry Noble (former General Counsel at the FEC), who is now president of Americans for Campaign Reform. This is their latest push to shut these down. One IRS prosecution would make an impact and they wouldn't feel so comfortable doing the stuff," she wrote. "So, don't be fooled about how this is being articulated – it is ALL about 501(c)(4) orgs and political activity."

Lerner later acknowledged pursuing prosecutions of these groups would not fit well with the law.

“These new emails show that the day before she broke the news of the IRS scandal, Lois Lerner was talking to a top Obama Justice Department official about whether the DOJ could prosecute the very same organizations that the IRS had already improperly targeted,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said in a statement. “The IRS emails show Eric Holder’s Department of Justice is now implicated and conflicted in the IRS scandal. No wonder we had to sue in federal court to get these documents.”

BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ About Prosecuting Tax Exempt Groups - Katie Pavlich

 

[lawgator1]

So? The above emails say someone wants to find out who the person is who can answer questions raised at one of the hearings. And when you have in your story the phrase "In other words," where you recast what someone says as proof of what you wish they had said, you just suck.

Lame. Pathetically lame.

Judicial Watch is an aging rock group, trying to sell tickets to their show to TPers and hard core GOPers. Problem for them is that fewer and fewer people are willing to pony up any dough because its just not that entertaining.

 

[Orange_Crush]

So? The above emails say someone wants to find out who the person is who can answer questions raised at one of the hearings. And when you have in your story the phrase "In other words," where you recast what someone says as proof of what you wish they had said, you just suck.

Lame. Pathetically lame.

Judicial Watch is an aging rock group, trying to sell tickets to their show to TPers and hard core GOPers. Problem for them is that fewer and fewer people are willing to pony up any dough because its just not that entertaining.

You are a pathetic cronie mouthpiece.

The very division of the DoJ that was on task to investigate the IRS' dealings is the division that is implicated by the emails (emails that the DoJ tried to suppress, even under court order).

Just for the record, that's the two most intimidating divisions of Obama's cabinet colluding to target political adversaries, just in case you didn't notice. And one of the colluding divisions just so happens to be the ones who would 'investigate' it if the lid ever blew off.

Convenient.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Oh, and by the way, the DoJ is refusing to release and additional 800 pages of emails, citing 'taxpayer confidentiality' as the reason. The irony is that the IRS released a "1.1 million page database of information from 501(c)(4) tax exempt organizations that contained confidential tax records" when the IRS/DoJ were colluding to target conservative organizations.

 

[agent|orange]

I accidentally erased my blackberry & slammed it on the ground. All those deleted emails was an accident too.

I hate how that happens. It's like when a cop has a "lapel camera malfunction" right before they carry out their job as judge/jury/executioner.

Funny how that works.

 

[lawgator1]

You are a pathetic cronie mouthpiece.

The very division of the DoJ that was on task to investigate the IRS' dealings is the division that is implicated by the emails (emails that the DoJ tried to suppress, even under court order).

Just for the record, that's the two most intimidating divisions of Obama's cabinet colluding to target political adversaries, just in case you didn't notice. And one of the colluding divisions just so happens to be the ones who would 'investigate' it if the lid ever blew off.

Convenient.

"Tried to suppress."

LOL

 

[Sandvol]

So? The above emails say someone wants to find out who the person is who can answer questions raised at one of the hearings. And when you have in your story the phrase "In other words," where you recast what someone says as proof of what you wish they had said, you just suck.

Lame. Pathetically lame.

Judicial Watch is an aging rock group, trying to sell tickets to their show to TPers and hard core GOPers. Problem for them is that fewer and fewer people are willing to pony up any dough because its just not that entertaining.

So, it is your contention that the IRS and the DOJ are supposed to work together to investigate non profit organizations? And, that they are supposed to work together to investigate specifically Tea Party non profit organizations? Is that your contention?

 

[Sandvol]

So, if I am a non profit organization and I apply to the IRS for tax exempt status. And, I fill out all the paper work and answer the IRS questions and do the personal or phone interview and then do my paperwork correctly every year and send in the forms to the IRS I can then expect Regional IRS Directors (for example Exempt Organizations Unit Director like Lois Lerner) to call the DOJ to have me investigated? And, this happens all the time?

 

[Orange_Crush]

So, it is your contention that the IRS and the DOJ are supposed to work together to investigate non profit organizations? And, that they are supposed to work together to investigate specifically Tea Party non profit organizations? Is that your contention?

That just happened to coincide with elections in 2010 and 2012...

 

[Sandvol]

What is Rick Perry being prosecuted for in the State of Texas?

(P.S.-Perry is being prosecuted just for threatening to veto.)

 

[Sandvol]

I hope some brave regional DOJ prosecutor has had enough of this and decides to take it upon himself to convene a Grand Jury and submit evidence with regards to this matter and force Holder to try to fire him.