Iran

[Smokey123]

Iran didn't start this? They have been killing Americans for decades. Thousands. Do you remember 9/11?

 

[kiddiedoc]

How would you even know we have? That's exactly the problem right now.

- We pulled out of a deal because we suspected they weren't keeping the spirit of the deal.
- Then they stopped following the letter of the deal.
- Yeah, they're enriching uranium, but, we have international organizations telling us to calm down about their alleged ambitions.
- Also, we have our intelligence indicating we should calm down about this.
- Then we bombed them last year because we just decided to call ******** on our own intelligence, and then we told the world we obliterated their program.
- And then a year later we have to take care of the problem again? Why, if it was "obliterated?" Why trust these incompetent liars who bomb girls schools to run ops like this?

There is no trust anywhere. The admin doesn't trust international organizations, its own intelligence, and there is no trust in the admin, because they're clearly full of ****. So IDK how the **** we ever solve this

How do we ever get to a place where @kiddiedoc is satisfied with their nuclear ambitions? It doesn't matter what's actually happening, according to our intelligence and the international organizations...once a bunch of Zionist Republicans start expressing doubt about them keeping the agreement, where are you going to stand?

Well, in the end, it doesn't really matter what you or I think about it. We don't have the full intelligence knowledge required to make an informed decision, nor should we. Why would our government reveal everything it knows behind the scenes on a matter such as this?

At some point, you have to hope and trust that the U.S. will continue to do whatever is necessary to ensure our safety and well-being. We live a protected and bountiful life here with security and freedoms not afforded to most people in the world. That's good enough for me.

I do pray for wisdom and clarity in decisions for our leaders, and that goes for whoever is in those positions. I don't care for Trump's personality, and I certainly didn't agree with most of the past recent Dem Presidents' policies. But I still want all of them to protect our rights, safety, and the welfare of our great Nation.

 

[rikberry31]

9-11 commission disagrees with all of that except that some of the highjackers traveled through Iran. They were not trained, Iran had no operational knowledge, or any role in planning 9-11.

They don't have a HQ


Their leader Saif al‑Adel has been hiding in Iran for many years with government approval

AQ and Iran don't have similar ideologies

You're right they aren't headquartered there. But: After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, some senior Al-Qaeda figures and families fled to Iran, where they received varying levels of sanctuary.
I understand that Iran is Shia and Al-Qaeda is Sunni but they are more predisposed to them than the U.S. that is for sure.
And Iran did train Al-Qaeda, you are incorrect there. According to multiple credible sources including the 9/11 Commission Report, U.S. court rulings, intelligence assessments, and defector testimony, Iran (often working through its proxy Hezbollah) provided explosives training to senior Al-Qaeda operatives

 

[rikberry31]

Sorry I wasn't clear. They had a hand in 9/11 and were sympathetic, I never meant that they were solely responsible. They helped the hijackers enter the U.S. and they trained Al Qaeda in explosives. Besides if they could have they probably would have been more than happy to do it.

 

[rikberry31]

You should really research the topic you discuss on here more. It’d save you looking like an idiot

Saudi was sending money to multiple aq linked charities. There was multiple sa op’s in the US that helped the hijackers settle in here. Plenty more. But sure Iran has direct involvement lol

Same back at ya.
The Saudi Arabian government as an institution or its most senior officials have not been proven to have directed, orchestrated, or knowingly sponsored the 9/11 attacks.

 

[Smokey123]

Same back at ya.
The Saudi Arabian government as an institution or its most senior officials have not been proven to have directed, orchestrated, or knowingly sponsored the 9/11 attacks.

And yet Iran has

 

[volfanhill]

You're right they aren't headquartered there. But: After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, some senior Al-Qaeda figures and families fled to Iran, where they received varying levels of sanctuary.
I understand that Iran is Shia and Al-Qaeda is Sunni but they are more predisposed to them than the U.S. that is for sure.
And Iran did train Al-Qaeda, you are incorrect there. According to multiple credible sources including the 9/11 Commission Report, U.S. court rulings, intelligence assessments, and defector testimony, Iran (often working through its proxy Hezbollah) provided explosives training to senior Al-Qaeda operatives

They provided training through a proxy organization in Sudan in the early 1990's. Nothing to show they trained them for 9-11.

They did allow some to hideout

It was all civil court rulings which have a far lower standard

And most importantly from the Commisons own report:

“We have found no evidence that Iran or Hizbullah was aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attack…”

Also very important on this topic the commissions findings also stated

The Commission did not find evidence that Iran trained any of the hijackers.
• It did not find evidence that Iran knew who the hijackers were.
• It did not find evidence that Iran knew the purpose of their travel.

 

[ButchPlz]

They provided training through a proxy organization in Sudan in the early 1990's. Nothing to show they trained them for 9-11.

They did allow some to hideout

It was all civil court rulings which have a far lower standard

And most importantly from the Commisons own report:

“We have found no evidence that Iran or Hizbullah was aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attack…”

Well this ignores 47 years of them being two weeks from having nukes with which they'd kill everyone in America, so...

 

[n_huffhines]

Well, in the end, it doesn't really matter what you or I think about it. We don't have the full intelligence knowledge required to make an informed decision, nor should we. Why would our government reveal everything it knows behind the scenes on a matter such as this?

Nobody is saying they need to reveal everything to us. They don't need to give us the details. I am not on the side that is denying the intelligence and doing whatever the hell it wants. Trump and Hegseth are.

At some point, you have to hope and trust that the U.S. will continue to do whatever is necessary to ensure our safety and well-being. We live a protected and bountiful life here with security and freedoms not afforded to most people in the world. That's good enough for me.

Our foreign policy in the Middle East has been completely detrimental to our safety and well-being. We're 7 decades into this, creating problems for ourselves. "At some point," you gotta realize it hasn't done anything to make us safer. It's done the opposite. It's the reason for the Iranian hostage crisis. It's the reason for Beirut. It's the reason for 9/11. How is this making us safer than minding our own business?

 

[kiddiedoc]

Nobody is saying they need to reveal everything to us. They don't need to give us the details. I am not on the side that is denying the intelligence and doing whatever the hell it wants. Trump and Hegseth are.

And you know this how? Are you included in private Intelligence briefings?

Our foreign policy in the Middle East has been completely detrimental to our safety and well-being. We're 7 decades into this, creating problems for ourselves. "At some point," you gotta realize it hasn't done anything to make us safer. It's done the opposite. It's the reason for the Iranian hostage crisis. It's the reason for Beirut. It's the reason for 9/11. How is this making us safer than minding our own business?

And you know this how? There have been no mass-casualty organized terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11. How can we know that others were not thwarted by the efforts of our Intelligence, policies, and the actions of our brave military personnel?

Do you not think it is at least somewhat possible that the teachings of Islamic extremism are the root cause? It's not hard to research. I even provided direct quotes from the past two Supreme Leaders. Calling that "rhetoric" when it is part of their fundamental belief system is just ignorant.

 

[n_huffhines]

And you know this how? Are you included in private Intelligence briefings?

We were told by people who know. Joe Kent resigned over it. There is so much going on and this story is moving so fast, I don't blame anybody for not being able to keep up, but there is no way you can be paying attention and reading the tea leaves and believe that we went to war with Iran because they were pursuing nuclear capability. That became the explanation after some fine-tuning, but the intelligence never supported it. When Tulsi Gabbard was pressed on why we were claiming "imminent threat" she said it's up to the president to determine that (which isn't true). What she definitely didn't say is "we have other intelligence that refutes Joe Kent."

And there is a committee of congressmen who must be informed of imminent threats, and they were never informed.

And you know this how? There have been no mass-casualty organized terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11. How can we know that others were not thwarted by the efforts of our Intelligence, policies, and the actions of our brave military personnel?

I'm not saying that our efforts have never thwarted any terrorist action. I'm saying we wouldn't be a terrorist target if we minded our business. Iran did not mess with us first. We ruined Iran and then they messed with us. Why would there ever be mass-casualty organized terrorist attacks on US soil if we minded our own business?

Do you not think it is at least somewhat possible that the teachings of Islamic extremism are the root cause? It's not hard to research. I even provided direct quotes from the past two Supreme Leaders. Calling that "rhetoric" when it is part of their fundamental belief system is just ignorant.

No. We have terrorists from Judaism. We have Israeli terrorists in the form of illegal settlers in the West Bank right now raising all kinds of hell. We have Christian terrorists. Those exist. IMO, the religious terrorism formula looks like this:

Terrorism = f(Sanity, Oppression) + Religion

Crazy people commit terrorist acts.

Oppressed people commit terrorist acts.

Religion is just something that gets bastardized and layered into it. And this happens for all religions, as far as I can tell. It's just as easy to turn Bible verses into violence as it is with the Q'ran. How crazy you are and how oppressed you are matters much more than what your religion is. Muslims are the most oppressed religion on earth (and it's not just outsiders, they oppress themselves, I admit, but that's the cycle). All Palestinians have known is oppression from Israel, unless they remember before 1967. That's what gives birth to Hamas.

 

[Persian Vol]

When I saw that 9/11 Iran post I realized it’s not worth expending energy.

 

[n_huffhines]

And let me say one more thing, @kiddiedoc

Iran uses its religion to oppress its own people, but how is that any different than what Christian nations did? Most of that was in the past, but it still happened and you don't blame Christianity, you blame kings and governments and corrupt popes, not Christianity, right?

None of this bad stuff is inherent to these religions that all generally espouse the same moral principles. Religion is just a good tool for manipulation, and governments of all kinds will abuse that.

 

[kiddiedoc]

And this happens for all religions, as far as I can tell. It's just as easy to turn Bible verses into violence as it is with the Q'ran.

That is empirically untrue, unless you don't understand the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, or you have never dived into the Quran.

How crazy you are and how oppressed you are matters much more than what your religion is.

On this, I agree wholeheartedly. Plenty of whackadoodles from all ways of life. However, no others that I'm aware of have the organization and massive numbers that exist in Islamic extremism. There's a difference between a nutjob westerner going on a killing spree suicide mission and a government systematically funding the training of terrorists.

 

[kiddiedoc]

And let me say one more thing, @kiddiedoc
Religion is just a good tool for manipulation

I am really sorry to hear that you feel that way. I'm sure you have your reasons and I'm saddened that Christianity has been poorly demonstrated to you (which unfortunately often happens). The true message of Grace, forgiveness, sanctification, and salvation should be the focus of Christians, but we often fail at that -- part of our broken/sinful/prideful/selfish nature.

Thank you for the respectful discourse. I hope you have a great weekend. I'm off work and call, and my son will be back from college, so I'm going to take a little social media break and focus on family time, grilling meat, and avoiding double bogies.

 

[n_huffhines]

That is empirically untrue, unless you don't understand the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, or you have never dived into the Quran.

Have you ever thought that maybe you don't understand the Q'ran and that people who don't understand The Bible look at you the way you look at them? Christians have used the Bible to justify violence throughout history. Are you denying this? Somebody (Pete Hegesth?) compared us to David as in David vs. Goliath, to justify our war. We are Goliath, bro.

Meanwhile, the Q'ran prohibits killing, just like the Bible does.

You don't realize how the same you are, you're just priviliged and they are not. You have no reason to become a terrorist. Your life is amazing. No rich country from the other side of the world blew your brother up with a drone. Why would you become a terrorist?

 

[n_huffhines]

I am really sorry to hear that you feel that way. I'm sure you have your reasons and I'm saddened that Christianity has been poorly demonstrated to you (which unfortunately often happens). The true message of Grace, forgiveness, sanctification, and salvation should be the focus of Christians, but we often fail at that -- part of our broken/sinful/prideful/selfish nature.

Thank you for the respectful discourse. I hope you have a great weekend. I'm off work and call, and my son will be back from college, so I'm going to take a little social media break and focus on family time, grilling meat, and avoiding double bogies.

To be clear, I said "religion is just a tool..." and I didn't mean that it is "only" a tool. I'm saying in these cases with oppressive goverenments, religion is a tool for oppression. I am not saying that is religion's only function or purpose.

 

[volfanhill]

It's a pretty F-ing sad state of affairs when you aren't sure which habitual liars to believe. But one happens to be your POTUS

 

[Redleg68]

Have you ever thought that maybe you don't understand the Q'ran and that people who don't understand The Bible look at you the way you look at them? Christians have used the Bible to justify violence throughout history. Are you denying this? Somebody (Pete Hegesth?) compared us to David as in David vs. Goliath, to justify our war. We are Goliath, bro.

Meanwhile, the Q'ran prohibits killing, just like the Bible does.

You don't realize how the same you are, you're just priviliged and they are not. You have no reason to become a terrorist. Your life is amazing. No rich country from the other side of the world blew your brother up with a drone. Why would you become a terrorist?

Since you have referenced all thru history, let me ask you something. What was the reason for the invasion of Europe in the seventh century by Muslims?

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

It's a pretty F-ing sad state of affairs when you aren't sure which habitual liars to believe. But one happens to be your POTUS

I am spit balling that they might be telling the truth here. Yeah, that's your point

 

[BeardedVol]

Since you have referenced all thru history, let me ask you something. What was the reason for the invasion of Europe in the seventh century by Muslims?

The family of the recently dead King Witiza brought the berbera into Spain to help them overthrow the newly crowned King Roderic, and al-Walid of the Umayyad instead conquered all of Iberia from the fractured Visigoth kingdom.

 

[Redleg68]

The family of the recently dead King Witiza brought the berbera into Spain to help them overthrow the newly crowned King Roderic, and al-Walid of the Umayyad instead conquered all of Iberia from the fractured Visigoth kingdom.

And were just outside of Paris before they were stopped. They were on a "fath" So they had intentions on all of Europe actually.

 

[EasternVol]

I have made several assertions on here, and you and other people who have no response but insults and funny pictures.

Sorry, it was hard to see where the rant ended and the assertions started.
I never said they aren't homicidal yet you ask me to show that they aren't? Really bud, you shouldn't call others insane when you think like that.
Are they suicidal maniacs? I don't see that. How do you see it?
You think our attack was all about the uranium. I don't.
Anything else?

 

[EasternVol]

So, they don't mean it but if Trump says something to take a maximalist position he is to be taken at his literal word. Truth is he is doing the same thing the Iranians are doing. He speaks their language.
Mullahs say "Death to America", and they are just kidding it's just rhetoric.
Trump says "I am going to wipe out your civilization", and he literally means it and he is insane.
Both are trash talking.

For someone that doesn't like Trump, you sure love Trump.

 

[volfanhill]

He’s doing the same thing they’re doing? So you don’t think they’re serious and just trash talking? You’ve said the opposite a lot….

Well no one here wanted the Iranians to be POTUS. Why would we ever want a POTUS to use rhetoric? We should take issue when they do that