Iran

#22,602
#22,602
NashVol11 said:
Dude we were all in agreement on no war in Iran until MAGA flipped to opposing the rest of us because Trump said so. How are you blaming that on the left
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I was never in that boat. In fact I recall the hostage crisis of the 70s and remembering grown ups talking about invading Iran. This is nothing new. Iran is filled with evil men who do evil things.
 
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#22,605
#22,605
tim said:
most honorable liberals don’t oppose everything thing the conservatives try to do. However, there aren’t many honorable liberals.
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Most honorable liberals are fiscally and governmentally conservative. Most of our founding fathers were classic liberals. Both parties have departed from their predominant ideologies in the last 30 years. Hell, Republicans had measures against global warming as part of the party platform pre late 1990s. My point is that political party affiliation and ideology are entirely different matters. Most of the country are center right-center left ideologically, and have been ignored with policy for this entire century
 
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#22,607
#22,607
Smokey123 said:
Overthrowing him bcuz of the USSR is just not reality. The talks were stalling and tensions between Iran and the US were growing, they had to create a narrative to get people behind the coupe
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In 1953, every single strategy, tactic, plan, thought, and idea with our foreign policy centered around communism and the threat of its expansion in the world. Oil was important, especially for the British, but addressing any potential of Iran being a Soviet satellite country was the focus. Here is the money sentence for our policy with Iran in 1953:

1775953768906.png
 
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#22,609
#22,609
NorthDallas40 said:
So Iran is rather full of it with this statement. Both US destroyers transited the strait without incident and are currently in the Persian Gulf. Not to say things can’t go south at a later date but their claim in this statement is clearly false.

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Yes they are full of it on this point.

Iran also said they would not begin negotiations until the funds were released…no funds but negotiations have begun.

Iran said no negotiations until Israel stopped attacks in Lebanon…Hezbullah and Israel are still going at it but negotiations have begun.

Iran is in a very bad position and trying to bluster their way through it. If Trump can manage to keep his mouth shut and let the grownups do their job, militarily and diplomatically, we are likely to have a favorable outcome. But it will probably involve one more round of fighting.
 
#22,610
#22,610
VAVol85 said:
Yes they are full of it on this point.

Iran also said they would not begin negotiations until the funds were released…no funds but negotiations have begun.

Iran said no negotiations until Israel stopped attacks in Lebanon…Hezbullah and Israel are still going at it but negotiations have begun.

Iran is in a very bad position and trying to bluster their way through it. If Trump can manage to keep his mouth shut and let the grownups do their job, militarily and diplomatically, we are likely to have a favorable outcome. But it will probably involve one more round of fighting.
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So we’re counting on Trump keeping his big mouth shut?

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#22,616
#22,616
tim said:
Wanting, probably not. Allowing, absolutely.
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Everyone would be behind Trump in this conflict if he was acting prudently, with some proactivity and forward thinking. He's doing the opposite. He took advice from a small group of inexperienced advisors who haven't got the first clue. No military expertise involved in it at all. By no measure does Hegseth measure up in any way. He doesn't count as s seasoned military strategist. The UK is much more than just a member of NATO. They are a valuable ally aside from NATO. It's an entirely different relationship with them. They weren't consulted at all. They didn't participate in the initial strike but offered help right afterwards and delusional Donny told them we didn't need them, only to turn around 2 weeks later and beg for their help with the Strait. That's bush league leadership. Hell, he even dropped some sanctions against Russia while they were helping Iran. Trump has lost America's respect across the world. We only dominate with our military now. China is taking on some of our lost diplomacy while at the same time supplying Iran. Plus they are participating in the negotiations as a back channel. Dumb, delusional Donald is facking this country. Even worse, it's his unqualified, incompetent synchophants in his cabinet and Congress that are allowing this to happen because their concern is sticking it to the Democrats, not giving the first damn about this country
 
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#22,620
#22,620
VAVol85 said:
I get your point…it is a mountain to overcome. Susie needs to have a talk with him and maybe hide his phone.
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Somebody needs to talk to him that’s for damn sure. Because at this point all we’re trying to do is get back to having freedom of navigation we had before the orange idiot did this unilaterally. And it sure looks like we replaced a hardline regime with a more hardline regime and REALLY gave them a much bigger reason to have a hard on for us going forward.

And to everyone preaching ThEY wERe GoINg tO GEt A NuKE! … they’re going to keep working on it if they want to and there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. Regardless what they sign. You can’t say on one hand they can’t be trusted and on the other say they agreed to give up their enriched fissile material and not make more. Pick a damn lane.

The “you” here isnt you in particular VAVol just a broad figurative usage.
 
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#22,621
#22,621
BernardKingGOAT said:
Everyone would be behind Trump in this conflict if he was acting prudently, with some proactivity and forward thinking.
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This may be true for you and some others but is not true for others out there, some who make videos wanting him taken out and “gutted” and a few on here who are mental and do not care about anything else than Trumps failure and/or impeachment and/or death. Undeniable fact.
 
#22,623
#22,623
Smokey123 said:
Overthrowing him bcuz of the USSR is just not reality. The talks were stalling and tensions between Iran and the US were growing, they had to create a narrative to get people behind the coupe
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I didn't mean to imply the USSR was a causative agent in the crisis, but insulating Iran from 'Soviet" influence was a primary concern in resolving the crisis.

The dollar had recently surpassed the pound as the dominant global currency and we wanted to keep it that way. We needed a stable mid-east for that.

Britain had already taken proxy military action, mobilized, and threatened direct action against Iran. They weren't bluffing.
The Soviets, thankfully, had taken a hands off approach to the crisis That doesn't mean the Soviets didn't still want oil concessions from Iran. Although not very probable (particularly in hindsight), Mossadegh reaching out to Stalin for a trade deal was a real concern that could have taken us and Britain off the table. Iran then becomes a bear England doesn't dare poke. With the centralized USSR bank & western banking currency being veritably incompatible, the petro-dollar doesn't develop........

I should have better clarified the difference in what I meant between 'communist' & 'Soviet' influence. We didn't particularly care about communist idealogy without Soviet backing. We'd certainly use the fear as propaganda whenever it was to our benefit. though.

I wasn't aware we'd lied about Mossadegh's involvement with Tudeh, btw. Good and twisted
 
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#22,624
#22,624
NorthDallas40 said:
Somebody needs to talk to him that’s for damn sure. Because at this point all we’re trying to do is get back to having freedom of navigation we had before the orange idiot did this unilaterally. And it sure looks like we replaced a hardline regime with a more hardline regime and REALLY gave them a much bigger reason to have a hard on for us going forward.

And to everyone preaching ThEY wERe GoINg tO GEt A NuKE! … they’re going to keep working on it if they want to and there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. Regardless what they sign. You can’t say on one hand they can’t be trusted and on the other say they agreed to give up their enriched fissile material and not make more. Pick a damn lane.

The “you” here isnt you in particular VAVol just a broad figurative usage.
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I’m not sure how the regime gets any more hardline than they were, maybe they went from 9-10. But, one thing that has changed is that the new regime has made a mockery of the theocratic control by appointing an impotent figurehead as the new ayatollah. The IRGC has exposed itself as a military junta and abandoned all religious pretext. To use an engineering analogy they may be harder but more brittle.

*thanks for the footnote!
 
#22,625
#22,625
Vol8188 said:
Their last two soldiers surrendered in 1974.

I think part of the problem is history has forgotten the atrocities of the Japanese in WWII. They’re now seen as an ally and a nonaggressive people. As opposed to the group of people who arguably committed the absolute worst atrocities seen during that time.
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I've read that the behavior of the Japanese military before and during the war was an anomalous deviation from what their society had been that happened virtually overnight
 
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