Iran

#7,026
#7,026
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You seem to be arguing against something I never said. I never said America wasn't the best country on earth. I simply challenged him to articulate objective reasons rather than just yelling we're the best with zero logic and reasoning.

With that said, I do believe America is the best country on earth. But not for what you stated. America is the best because of the American Dream. The idea that you can be anything you want to be if you work hard enough. Despite the fact it might not be equally accessible to everyone, there's still no other country that gives you as much opportunity as America. So yeah I definitely would not want to live anywhere else.
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I’m not really arguing. You asked for objective reasons and I offered what I see as the top few. I agree that the fact the US generally rejects caste systems and royalty and focuses on individual effort and achievement is also a source of greatness.
 
#7,027
#7,027
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Netanyahu hasn't been calling for us to attack Iran for 30 years just so we could drop a few bombs and then sign a ceasefire with them. The goal was regime change because the Iranians aren't just gonna stop trying to get a nuke no matter how far this attack set them back. Also they're not gonna just suddenly stop supporting the enemies of Israel.

Whether you like it or not, the mere fact the Iranian regime has lived to see another day means they won this round.
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The fact that the regime made it back to their corner without a knockout doesn’t necessarily mean they won the round, just that they survived. The damage that was inflicted may have long term consequences that we won’t see for months.
 
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#7,028
#7,028
VAVol85 said:
The fact that the regime made it back to their corner without a knockout doesn’t necessarily mean they won the round, just that they survived. The damage that was inflicted may have long term consequences that we won’t see for months.
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Survival is victory when your opponent is backed by the strongest military on the planet. Iran definitely won for now. We'll see if it lasts.
 
#7,029
#7,029
#7,030
#7,030
lawgator1 said:
Yes, this is the party line. Thank you for sharing.

And hey, for all I know they are absolutely 100 percent right. Hope they are. But it makes me nervous that we are talking about giving the Iranians $30 billion for additional power generation and unfreezing billions more in assets. Why would we do that if we "obliterated" their nuke capabilities? Something doesn't match up.
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Like CNN is not touting a party line? They could care less about accurate reporting.

WRT Iran, to try and get them to see a better way forward? Just whacked them over the head proving they really cannot do anything about future actions of that nature.

And present the carrot. 'Your unfrozen assets are available if you drop the nuke effort or we can continue to drop bombs as needed.'

May not work. Iran's leadership has proven to be irrational at times.
 
#7,034
#7,034
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I can get behind that. You guys think I've been advocating for the Iranian regime when I hate them. The difference is I also hate Zionist regime in Israel. Both are terrible and I don't want us as Americans wasting our resources on helping either side. Let them kill each other if they want. It shouldn't be any of our business.
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I can agree on the last sentence. Probably most reasonable item you have posted in this thread.
 
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#7,035
#7,035
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Survival is victory when your opponent is backed by the strongest military on the planet. Iran definitely won for now. We'll see if it lasts.
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That's horse **** in the context of the claims. It's like claiming that you won a fight aginst Mike Tyson, then admitting that what you meant was that not dying is the same as kicking Mike Tyson's ***.
 
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#7,036
#7,036
KB5252 said:
Because it brings them into the fold, gives an opening to show for normal relations and gives us more access to determine their intentions. If their goal is to achieve nuclear weapons they will at some point down the road.

If you can normalize relations and use it to negotiate a better peace in a volatile region why wouldn't you?

Also that was likely the one shot with the intensive we had. They will likely go to the drawing board and learn from the damage done to mitigate future attack. Likewise we will take what we learn to improve capability and adjust our plans to any adjustments they may make.

What I've read was unfreezing and offering packages with big money for them to pivot to civilian nuclear program and forgo any weapons research........ Well see if it's successful.

One problem we have is our frequency of change in power. It makes it very difficult for allies...... Much less our "enemies".
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if it didn't work with 100 billion why would it work with 30 billion?
 
#7,037
#7,037
Vol8188 said:
Right. And we bombed them. So if they agree to stop and to allow inspectors, what’s the problem
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they have done that before. and we ended up right here AFTER we gave them more money.

this is literally sending good money after bad money. it was a mistake when Obama did it, it will be a mistake if Trump does it.
 
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#7,038
#7,038
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
OK. What's your point? Iran is a nuisance to Israeli and American hegemony in the Middle East. You want them to roll over and just let Israel have their way like the puppet regimes in the rest of the Middle East that we control?

Iran has a right to protect its interests in the region. So does Israel by the way. The country that has no business being there is us. Let Israel and Iran fight each other for control of the region. It shouldn't be none of our business. Just like Russia and Ukraine should be none of our business.

By you guys in the right have been brainwashed by the Neo-Cons and Zionist lobby to use our taxpayer dollars to fight wars all over the world on behalf of non-Americans.
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find one post of mine saying we should be involved in the middle east. you won't. and I am certainly no friend of the Israeli government, and have been accused of being a friend of terrorism because I called out Israel's practices in Gaza.

you are resorting to making up lies because you have no argument.
 
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#7,039
#7,039
LouderVol said:
they have done that before. and we ended up right here AFTER we gave them more money.

this is literally sending good money after bad money. it was a mistake when Obama did it, it will be a mistake if Trump does it.
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Not true. They were allowed to enrich uranium under the Obama deal.
 
#7,041
#7,041
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He's not lying. Israel and America wanted regime change. That didn't happen. So Iran definitely won this round. We'll have to wait and see if Israel tries again with regime change.
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if Trump wanted regime change in Iran there would be regime change. Iran had their endeavers for nuclear weapons dismantled, that's win for the world not Iran.
 
#7,042
#7,042
LouderVol said:
to 60%? we didn't bomb them because they were enriching uranium. we bombed them because they went far beyond the agreement in place.
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Are you intentionally missing the point here?

1. Obama deal allowed enrichment
2. Trump has stated enrichment is off the tablet

That’s a massive difference.
 
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#7,044
#7,044
tbh said:
That individual has done the same thing in the football forum, along the lines of "we really won that game if you ignore the final score", so it's par for the course.
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I have that individual blocked. I would advise anyone else to do the same. It’s a waste of time to argue with that level of ignorance
 
#7,045
#7,045
LouderVol said:
not really. Iran will break whatever deal we make with them using the money we release to them.
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You really do just like to argue. You’re all over the map here and can’t stay on point.

If they do, we fly over their new facilities too.

You tried claiming (falsely) this was the same. I pointed out the massive and obvious difference. You’re welcome
 
#7,049
#7,049
Vol8188 said:
You really do just like to argue. You’re all over the map here and can’t stay on point.

If they do, we fly over their new facilities too.

You tried claiming (falsely) this was the same. I pointed out the massive and obvious difference. You’re welcome
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you naively believe Iran will suddenly become quiet as a mouse because Trump is involved.

there is no massive difference. Iran still has some nuclear capabilities. no one has even hit their power plants, we have no clue what happened to the enriched uranium they had. unless you really take Trump 100% at his word that we obliterated their program. unless you buy into that wild absolute there is no reason to think this won't just be another reset mess in the ME.
 
#7,050
#7,050
Vol8188 said:
Are you intentionally missing the point here?

1. Obama deal allowed enrichment
2. Trump has stated enrichment is off the tablet

That’s a massive difference.
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Obama (grandma) gave Iran (grandkids) a candy dish and told them they could have one, they took a handful so Trump (Grandpa) took away the candy dish.
 
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