Iran

#3,226
#3,226
utvolpj said:
Except they seem to have no idea whats going on across the world and how people will react to actions
Click to expand...

Our intelligence is sophisticated. Our results are disappointing. We're wrong all the time about important things. WMD's, horses we bet on (like the Taliban and Saddam), etc. We have good intelligence inputs, but a lot of the known outputs are concerning.

It was cool watching that OBL documentary on Netflix. You can see we are fully capable of doing amazing things with US intelligence, but corrupting factors like politics and $ and also incompetence in the executive branch leave us in a bad place, possibly on the net.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 05_never_again and KB5252
#3,229
#3,229
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The point is humans generally agree that people who shouldn't be trusted with nukes won't be allowed to BUY or DEVELOP nukes. It's to no one sane's advantage to let every nation who CAN develop a nuke do so nor every terrorist who CAN afford one get one.

These things are policed. There's an understanding among the sane: don't let the crazy people have crazy powerful weapons that can off all of humanity.

I AM surprised we don't see more terror attacks with gas and bio weapons. Easier to make, harder to police, etc. I'm extraordinarily surprised no domestic terrorist has tried to dose a DC building water supply with LSD or worse.
Click to expand...

So what does that have to do with Osama not having a nuclear program?

No one is stopping a country from perusing nuclear weapons if they have a mind to do so.

Iran is a prime example of that, given that they have been under economic sanctions for decades, and still managed to have a functional program capable of enriching uranium to weapon's grade.
 
#3,231
#3,231
ButchPlz said:
The below is the first message I believe I received from OrangeSlice on the issue. You followed with comments about "antisemites being out in force" or something. I don't suffer low-effort, un-researched boomerism politely- sorry. Pardon me if being called a "dumbass" by a "man" that can't even spell and tries to flex language skills (weird, but whatever) is something I find absolutely hilarious and way too easy to pick at.

I have a problem with America wasting people, money, and resources overseas. When I'm told that's a "********" opinion, and that I haven't done my own research, yes, this is all offensive. When I point out my issues within the church, being lectured at by someone that's not even part of the church speaking on behalf of it who doesn't bother coming into the discussion in good faith and manages to pretty much only throw around the word "dogma" (which he can't even define) while simultaneously re-interpreting a very clear piece of scripture is, yes, offensive.

The overwhelming majority of the posters on this board have already passed the age where they will have to deal with the fallout of this conflict. I have grown up dealing with the fallout of two prolonged wars in the ME and Central Asia, and countless covert wars we don't know about around the rest of the world. Pardon me if I'm salty about it and don't want another one. Pardon me again if I don't want to waste a single penny that could be better used by myself, my family, my colleagues and friends at home. I won't apologize, because wanting to rush headlong into war and combat is, above all, STUPID.
Click to expand...
Holy **** that’s a lot of words for “I’m not mad”
Lololol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 85SugarVol and Volsdeep4
#3,234
#3,234
MAD said:
I enjoyed posting in this thread the last several days. A lot of decent back and forth discussion and everything flowed real nice. And I got to say Butch, you have come in here and bullied and name called so many people and that’s killed the vibe. Seems like a lot of people have left and I don’t blame them, I feel the same way. Maybe try to be a little more considerate.
Click to expand...

This you?

MAD said:
Stfu, Iran has been attacking Israel using proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, houthis and rebels in Syria. It's time to unmask the big elephant in the room.
Click to expand...
MAD said:
Sit Down And STFU!!!
Click to expand...
 
#3,239
#3,239
BeardedVol said:
So what does that have to do with Osama not having a nuclear program?

No one is stopping a country from perusing nuclear weapons if they have a mind to do so.

Iran is a prime example of that, given that they have been under economic sanctions for decades, and still managed to have a functional program capable of enriching uranium to weapon's grade.
Click to expand...
With several decades of work and repeated bombings and nothing to really show for it that's dangerous as far as we know. Again, policed.

Sure, countries can TRY to develop nukes and terrorists can TRY to buy one but it's a very rare occurrence despite documentation on the technical aspects being available to scientists.

North Korea was the last one in 2005 or so and that should've been China's and/or Russia's to stop but they dropped the ball.

Since the Pakis leveled up with India in the late 90s, it's not like the world has seen a lot of countries pulling it off. Do you think more haven't WANTED to get a nuclear device?

God knows Nigeria has wealth similar to Pakistan and could be the undisputed big dog in Africa with a nuke..... but no.

Can the world STOP a nation from starting a nuclear enrichment, nuclear weapons program? Not exactly. Will they allow it to flourish? Ask Iran.
 
#3,240
#3,240
utvolpj said:
We're really only good at blowing things up. Our intelligence and foreign policy is horrendous. We're currently at the mercy of Israel and the MIC
Click to expand...
The interpretations of the intelligence are often horrendous. The intelligence itself is usually pretty good.

The people making the decisions often already have their mind made up what they want to do and cherry pick/exaggerate/downplay as necessary to justify the conclusion they've already drawn.
 
#3,241
#3,241
MAD said:
You aren’t wrong and People who say Iran isn’t our problem are deluded.

Click to expand...


The ocean between us (either one) gives Americans a false sense of security regarding the affairs of Asia and Europe.

People think Russia and China can gain power and influence throughout the world and that it will have no impact on them.
 
#3,242
#3,242
05_never_again said:
The interpretations of the intelligence are often horrendous. The intelligence itself is usually pretty good.

The people making the decisions often already have their mind made up what they want to do and cherry pick/exaggerate/downplay as necessary to justify the conclusion they've already drawn.
Click to expand...
If I design a system with great inputs but my output is trash then the system sucks. Sure I can fix the issues but the entire thing is pretty worthless until all pieces work correctly
 
  • Like
Reactions: ButchPlz
#3,243
#3,243
utvolpj said:
If I design a system with great inputs but my output is trash then the system sucks. Sure I can fix the issues but the entire thing is pretty worthless until all pieces work correctly
Click to expand...
Maybe just the part of the system that generates your outputs is trash.

Collecting information and presenting it to decision-makers is one thing. Actually making the decisions is quite another.
 
#3,244
#3,244
utvolpj said:
A pretty relevant example is that Iran has been months away from a nuke for 30yrs.

What had intelligence given that makes you think they're useful? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc?
Click to expand...

They’ve not had this large of a stockpile of uranium nor has it been enriched to this %.

You seem to be intentionally leaving out key information in an effort to prevent this is exactly the same as 30 years ago

And this has nothing to do with our intelligence. Iran admits this. So does the UN
 
#3,245
#3,245
Vol8188 said:
They’ve not had this large of a stockpile of uranium nor has it been enriched to this %.

You seem to be intentionally leaving out key information in an effort to prevent this is exactly the same as 30 years ago

And this has nothing to do with our intelligence. Iran admits this. So does the UN
Click to expand...
I left it out? I'm not the one who has been making that claim to the world for 3 decades. I guess they're super cereal this time
 
#3,246
#3,246
ButchPlz said:
Ok, now tell me where I put $ on missile defense in a "negative light"? Each Israeli missile launched is $12M compared to something like $200K for the Iranian missiles that they are shooting now. 10-15 interceptors are launched per 5-10 Iranian missiles. If we're talking war of attrition, how long can Israel keep that up before America "has" to start getting involved? Days? Weeks? Months? I genuinely do not know.

I have said I don't want American involvement. All signs are pointing to us being dragged into a war- even if we aren't putting boots on the ground, we're expending on a fight that's not ours. Before you start spouting off at me and jumping in halfway, like I said- read the thread.
Click to expand...

You accused Israel of genocide earlier. Now you’re upset that they aren’t using cheap missiles that are less accurate and would result in more civilian death?

Iran will run out of missiles before “months”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 85SugarVol
#3,247
#3,247
utvolpj said:
A pretty relevant example is that Iran has been months away from a nuke for 30yrs.

What had intelligence given that makes you think they're useful? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc?
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting at all that the intelligence about Iran's nuclear program hasn't been politicized, but a lot has happened over that 30 year period to set the program back at various points. They've assassinated many nuclear scientists who were the technical experts behind it, infected it with Stuxnet, probably done more things that never went public, etc. It seems entirely possible over that time that they've been close at various points, then something has happened that has set it back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77 and BernardKingGOAT
#3,250
#3,250
utvolpj said:
I left it out? I'm not the one who has been making that claim for 3 decades. I guess they're super cereal this time
Click to expand...

Idk if you’re intentionally misunderstanding or not. But for 3 decades they’ve not had uranium enriched to 60%.

You’re pretending this is the same thing for 3 decades.

That’s obviously not true. You accept that, right?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top