Iran

#26,328
#26,328
rikberry31 said:
Is killing and maiming thousands of Americans and terrorizing the world good enough justification?
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Terroriznig the world might be justification. It would depend on the amount of terrorism over what amount of time and the type of terrorism. Threats and rattling sabers would not justify war to me.

Killing and maiming thousands of Americans would need similar details.

If war is indeed needed, it must be brutal, devastating, and unforgiving. Permanent change is required.
 
#26,329
#26,329
hog88 said:
True, the way we chose to fight makes it unwinnable but that is the only reason.
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There is no doubt our military might could obliterate any country in its cross hairs. But devastating the country is only the first step in changing the minds and hearts of survivors and supporters from this point forward. America will not fight those wars.

Since we aren't going to do what is necessary, we should not look for the solution through the MIC lens.
 
#26,331
#26,331
rikberry31 said:
Yeah it probably doesn't mean anything that they are based in Iran. Birds of a feather, flock together. In other words, usually like thinking nations become allies. Just like we used to be allies with the Western Europeans.
Let's see, Iran hates and is sworn to the destruction of Israel and the U.S. Al Qaeda hates and is sworn to the destruction of Israel and the U.S. All islamofascists hate and are sworn to the destruction of Israel and the U.S. Yeah, they are probably not on the same side. Carry on.
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There is no base in Iran. There current leader is hiding in Iran.
 
#26,334
#26,334
McDad said:
There is no doubt our military might could obliterate any country in its cross hairs. But devastating the country is only the first step in changing the minds and hearts of survivors and supporters from this point forward. America will not fight those wars.

Since we aren't going to do what is necessary, we should not look for the solution through the MIC lens.
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We could win without obliterating Iran as a country. We could win by tightening our blockade and forcing open the straight but we as a country/people don't have the patience nor the risk tolerance to win it that way.
 
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#26,336
#26,336
LouderVol said:
what threat to air was in Afghanistan?

iran has plenty of rugged terrain. they have two major mountain ranges, one that divides them from the Caspian Sea the other divides them from Iraq, Tehran sits near both. they literally border Afghanistan. where Iran is flat, its desert which isn't great terrain. their major cities are typically surrounded by mountains where most of the locals are shepherds.
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RPGs and Stingers. Aircraft had to operate at high altitudes, they could not operate close to the ground without real risk. Slow low flying aircraft can operate with impunity in Iran now, that's a game changer.

Apache helicopters were at significant risk during the war in Afghanistan, facing hazards from intense enemy fire, harsh environmental conditions, and operational challenges. While considered one of the most advanced attack helicopters in the world, the Apache was frequently deployed in high-risk, close-support roles that subjected them to ground fire, including rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) and machine-gun fire.
 
#26,337
#26,337
utvolpj said:
They aren't killing people with their weed or cocaine. That's ridiculous. We're literally policing a waterway and attacking boats without any process to confirm their intentions.
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You're right, fentanyl is not killing anyone. Coke and drugs in general are really healthy. And I am sure they were just fishing. Whatever.
 
#26,338
#26,338
rikberry31 said:
You're right, fentanyl is not killing anyone. Coke and drugs in general are really healthy. And I am sure they were just fishing. Whatever.
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Where's the evidence that all the boats were carrying drugs? You taking this administration's word for everything? You certainly repeat everything those clowns say. Good little Trump stooge
 
#26,339
#26,339
McDad said:
Terroriznig the world might be justification. It would depend on the amount of terrorism over what amount of time and the type of terrorism. Threats and rattling sabers would not justify war to me.

Killing and maiming thousands of Americans would need similar details.

If war is indeed needed, it must be brutal, devastating, and unforgiving. Permanent change is required.
Click to expand...
All the soldiers hit by Iranian IEDs, all those killed by Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, Shias in Iraq. All Iran.
 
#26,342
#26,342
rikberry31 said:
You're right, fentanyl is not killing anyone. Coke and drugs in general are really healthy. And I am sure they were just fishing. Whatever.
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Fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela. Alcohol isn't healthy but we aren't blowing up boats coming from Ireland

You really are a true believer in big govt huh?
 
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#26,343
#26,343
rikberry31 said:
RPGs and Stingers. Aircraft had to operate at high altitudes, they could not operate close to the ground without real risk. Slow low flying aircraft can operate with impunity in Iran now, that's a game changer.

Apache helicopters were at significant risk during the war in Afghanistan, facing hazards from intense enemy fire, harsh environmental conditions, and operational challenges. While considered one of the most advanced attack helicopters in the world, the Apache was frequently deployed in high-risk, close-support roles that subjected them to ground fire, including rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) and machine-gun fire.
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you don't think Iran has any RPGs?

and you are going to have to link your claim that we are flying low flying planes with impunity. the only ones I have seen have been over the Straight, and that included other Air assets as well as Naval support. not what I would call impunity.

You know that is the role Apaches were designed to engage in? They would be used the exact same way in Iran, and face literally the same threats.
 
#26,344
#26,344
rikberry31 said:
RPGs and Stingers. Aircraft had to operate at high altitudes, they could not operate close to the ground without real risk. Slow low flying aircraft can operate with impunity in Iran now, that's a game changer.

Apache helicopters were at significant risk during the war in Afghanistan, facing hazards from intense enemy fire, harsh environmental conditions, and operational challenges. While considered one of the most advanced attack helicopters in the world, the Apache was frequently deployed in high-risk, close-support roles that subjected them to ground fire, including rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) and machine-gun fire.
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There have been at least 2 planes shot down (with many more drones). I’m not sure you can say slow low flying aircraft can operate with impunity.
 
#26,347
#26,347
utvolpj said:
Fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela. Alcohol isn't healthy but we aren't blowing up boats coming from Ireland

You really are a true believer in big govt huh?
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Coke does, and the mixture of coke with fentanyl is more dangerous than fentanyl alone. Coke is a stimulant and fent is depressant. Super dangerous combo. Killing the coke boats and closing the southern border have produced a drop in the overdose deaths, it had been steadily rising for decades. That trend is continuing.
As far as the government goes, the fundamental purpose in the Constitution is to promote the general welfare (meaning wellbeing not handouts). I do agree that the government is involved in a lot of things it shouldn't be but blowing up and breaking stuff in the defense of the general welfare of Americans is one they were meant for.
 
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