Interesting Update - All-Time football wins

#27
#27
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Here's the Top 25 since the end of segregation, which is really the context of the modern era:

1tOklahoma 0.76718 443 132 7 582
1tOhio State 0.78147 443 121 8 572
3 Nebraska 0.74746 439 147 4 590
4 Alabama 0.74606 425 144 2 571
5 Penn State 0.72444 417 158 2 577
6 Michigan 0.72917 416 152 8 576
7 Georgia 0.70603 406 167 7 580
8 Florida State 0.71529 405 160 4 569
9 Brigham Young 0.68274 402 186 3 591
10 Florida 0.68945 395 176 7 578
11 Southern Cal 0.70194 393 164 10 567
12 Texas 0.68380 390 179 5 574
13 Miami-Florida 0.68496 387 178 0 565
14 Clemson 0.67826 386 181 8 575
15 Auburn 0.66930 378 185 7 570
16 Louisiana State 0.65757 369 190 9 568
17 Tennessee 0.64983 368 196 10 574
18 Notre Dame 0.66728 363 180 4 547
19 Texas A&M 0.63660 362 206 3 571
20 Virginia Tech 0.63005 356 208 5 569
21 Washington 0.61111 345 219 3 567
22 West Virginia 0.60993 342 218 4 564
23 Arizona State 0.59893 334 223 4 561
24tUCLA 0.59840 332 221 11 564
24tWisconsin 0.58844 332 231 8 571
Click to expand...
Cherry pick much?
 
#34
#34
unfrozencvmanvol said:
I didn't say it didn't matter, I just don't think a time where nothing but white boys played and there was virtually no forward passing can honestly be considered part of the modern era anymore.
Click to expand...

Heh. There was "virtually no forward passing" prior to the early 1970s?

You didn't think that one through, did you.

The forward pass was introduced in 1905, and was first used in a game in 1906. The Carlisle Indians (star Jim Thorpe, with coach Pop Warner)* had huge success with it over the next few years. Within a decade or so, Notre Dame pushed forward with it as well; others soon followed suit, and by late 1920s or early 1930s the forward pass was pretty much a regular part of the game.

Not 1972.

I would say the game, as we recognize it today, dated back about that far. Say 1930. If you really want to push for a later "start date", maybe go with the introduction of the two-platoon system and unlimited substitutions, in the 1940s.

From that point on, any fan of the game today would easily follow and recognize the game being played then.

Go Vols!


* I was stationed at Carlisle Barracks for a year, and heard an amazing story about Jim Thorpe and his teammates, which might or might not be entirely true. The story goes like this:

The Carlisle Indian School didn't have a lot of spare money for luxuries like team transportation and such. One of Carlisle's regular opponents for off-season scrimmages was a club team in the state capital, Harrisburg, about 25 miles away. So Jim and his gang would run from Carlisle to Harrisburg, effectively a marathon...play a football game...and run back to Carlisle, another marathon...all in one day.

Tough hombres, if true.

Go Vols!
 
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#35
#35
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh. There was "virtually no forward passing" prior to the early 1970s?

You didn't think that one through, did you.

The forward pass was introduced in 1905, and was first used in a game in 1906. The Carlisle Indians (star Jim Thorpe, with coach Pop Warner)* had huge success with it over the next few years. Within a decade or so, Notre Dame pushed forward with it as well; others soon followed suit, and by late 1920s or early 1930s the forward pass was pretty much a regular part of the game.

Not 1972.

I would say the game, as we recognize it today, dated back about that far. If you really want to push for a later "start date", maybe go with the introduction of the two-platoon system and unlimited substitutions, in the 1940s.

From that point on, any fan of the game today would easily follow and recognize the game being played then.

Go Vols!


* I was stationed at Carlisle Barracks for a year, and heard an amazing story about Jim Thorpe and his teammates, which might or might not be entirely true. The story goes like this:

The Carlisle Indian School didn't have a lot of spare money for luxuries like team transportation and such. One of Carlisle's regular opponents for off-season scrimmages was a club team in the state capital, Harrisburg, about 25 miles away. So Jim and his gang would run from Carlisle to Harrisburg, effectively a marathon...play a football game...and run back to Carlisle, another marathon...all in one day.

Tough hombres, if true.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...

To me 1912 was the important year. The field became 100 yards, 10 yard end zones were added, a touchdown became six points, and the fourth down was added. Not sure when the number of players on the field was set at 11 and the field width was standardized. If you want to define the "modern era" by rules, that might seem a good year. The NCAA is always going to tinker, but the big standards are a good place to start. Others define the "modern era" as beginning in the 1930s because the game really became national, AP poll started, etc. I guess there's almost a year to suit anybody's definition of "modern era".

Oh, yeah, one more thing. I couldn't accept a "modern era" that excluded the Neyland years.
 
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#37
#37
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh. There was "virtually no forward passing" prior to the early 1970s?

You didn't think that one through, did you.

The forward pass was introduced in 1905, and was first used in a game in 1906. The Carlisle Indians (star Jim Thorpe, with coach Pop Warner)* had huge success with it over the next few years. Within a decade or so, Notre Dame pushed forward with it as well; others soon followed suit, and by late 1920s or early 1930s the forward pass was pretty much a regular part of the game.

Not 1972.

I would say the game, as we recognize it today, dated back about that far. Say 1930. If you really want to push for a later "start date", maybe go with the introduction of the two-platoon system and unlimited substitutions, in the 1940s.

From that point on, any fan of the game today would easily follow and recognize the game being played then.

Go Vols!


* I was stationed at Carlisle Barracks for a year, and heard an amazing story about Jim Thorpe and his teammates, which might or might not be entirely true. The story goes like this:

The Carlisle Indian School didn't have a lot of spare money for luxuries like team transportation and such. One of Carlisle's regular opponents for off-season scrimmages was a club team in the state capital, Harrisburg, about 25 miles away. So Jim and his gang would run from Carlisle to Harrisburg, effectively a marathon...play a football game...and run back to Carlisle, another marathon...all in one day.

Tough hombres, if true.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
There was a lot more passing in 1972 than say 1952, in 1972 the leading passer in college football had 3,243 yards, in 1952 the leading passer had 1,824, that's almost double. I know we look better if we include the pre-integration era as "modern", I just don't think it's being very objective not to recognize the effects of the sea change in athleticism ushered in by integration. At that time and in the years that followed as the game adjusted to the new athletic reality, it was forever changed, especially as to the relative dynamics and strength of the various programs recruiting bases.

(NOTE: let me take this opportunity to again shout from the rooftops that the pre-integration history is still important and still does and should count, I just view integration as a landmark event in the history of the game that forever changed it, I'm not going to deny that because it makes us look slightly better (through the 1971 season we were tied for 12th in all time wins, since that time we are 17th), when you factor our relevance in both eras (many programs have only been relevant in one or the other), it currently makes us 10th overall.

P.S. interesting story about Thorpe, it's probably rooted in some truth, they probably had to run to a game at some point and it's gotten mythologized.
 
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#41
#41
AM64 said:
Yale has 916 wins
Harvard 879
Penn 861
Princeton 840 is behind us and still ahead of GA

However, they are now FCS schools, so a direct comparison is very questionable. As far as a real comparison, I agree with you despite the numbers.

9 winningest FCS teams in college football history | NCAA.com
Click to expand...
Okay, here is where I am getting my info, it appears they stopped counting Ivy League wins approximately a century ago, so none of the numbers I quoted considered any of the Ivy League teams: I-A Wins 1869-2018
 
#42
#42
AM64 said:
Keep in mind that teams like MI got a lot of wins before other teams even started playing football, and sometimes those wins were against HS teams and sports clubs. Also the early games were played with far more players, a round ball, different scoring, and a much different field. Too bad that we don't have a more realistic set of numbers dating back to a time (like probably in the 20s or 30s) when the game became more or less like the football we know today. The Ivy League schools like Harvard and Yale generally rank well up at the top both in wins and "championships" because they also had a big head start on most modern FBS (or Division 1) teams.

Even Sewanee was a terror back in the day - and a charter member of the SEC. Vandy wasn't the only instate school getting the better of Tennessee in football in the early 1900s.
Click to expand...

They should disregard all teams wins prior to Neylands first year as a coach. That makes the most sense to me.
 
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#44
#44
I just feel like 75 years is a good number of seasons to include. Why not only include 1926 through 2001. I think that would be reasonable to show all teams records for that time period to be fair to everyone. We’ll even sacrifice our records from 2002-2019 as a statement of goodwill.
 
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