Interesting stat on playing true freshmen

[Fingers]

Crazy stat. In the last five years Missouri only played 15 true freshmen, while Tennessee played 20 last year alone.

Pete Scantlebury 11h11 hours ago
Tennessee played more true freshmen last year (20) than Missouri played from 2010-2014 combined (15).

 

[sjt18]

Pinkel mentioned that they have several in their two deep this year. Part of that is a little better recruiting and part of it is the attrition he's had in his depth over the past two years. That's why I do not expect them to be as good as many do.

 

[Carlitovol]

I thought we played more true FR last year (22 or 23?). Regardless, it's still a crazy stat.

While it is sometimes tiring to hear Butch talk about "youth" so much, it's undoubtedly a legit point. There is a reason that Mizzou has been so successful in the SEC over the past few seasons. They have had tons of upperclassmen (including Redshirt JR/SRs). That goes a long way toward consistency and overall depth/performance/experience.

 

[Kristy*]

I love a quote like this when we still have people arguing that we aren't a young team.

 

[Carlitovol]

I love a quote like this when we still have people arguing that we aren't a young team.

Yep, especially when Butch said yesterday that 20 True FR will likely see the field on Saturday.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

This comes up every year. So interesting watching the SEC come to grips with the playoff system. In this new game depth beats talent almost every time. Young men and women won't wrap their heads around the importance of experience for several years. They think that a bunch of high school kids can step on the field and run through it all just because they have a few stars behind their name.

 

[RiseToTheTop]

Pinkel mentioned that they have several in their two deep this year. Part of that is a little better recruiting and part of it is the attrition he's had in his depth over the past two years. That's why I do not expect them to be as good as many do.

me either. Their talent level will be down a couple notches this year. This yr they are getting pickd bc of the previous 2 yrs and ppl are scared to pick against them. I think this is the yr there is a legit reason to pick against them. They just are not as talented or near as deep.

 

[Kristy*]

Yep, especially when Butch said yesterday that 20 True FR will likely see the field on Saturday.

And I believe he said that 34 have never played a snap for Tennessee. That's 1 less than half! But yeah, we're a veteran team.

 

[joevol33]

This comes up every year. So interesting watching the SEC come to grips with the playoff system. In this new game depth beats talent almost every time. Young men and women won't wrap their heads around the importance of experience for several years. They think that a bunch of high school kids can step on the field and run through it all just because they have a few stars behind their name.

Good point.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Dooley put us in such a hole. We're just getting out of playing freshmen by necessity and moving into playing freshmen for depth purposes. Next year we should have many Juniors and Sophomores on the field with a handful of Seniors. Freshmen will have to be very very good to jump some of the starters.

 

[Chilmonty]

I am sick of this excuse! We are OLD and EXPERIENCED everywhere on the the field! If we don't go undefeated, then Butch sucks and needs to be fired!

But Butch sucks anyway, and we are to YOUNG and INEXPERIENCED to win more than 7 games, so fire Butch again!

And I hate all the UPBEAT fans, and you should SHUT UP! WE SUCK!!






That about covers it I think! :blink:



.

 

[Carlitovol]

And I believe he said that 34 have never played a snap for Tennessee. That's 1 less than half! But yeah, we're a veteran team.

I will say this - I do think we have more balance this year in terms of contributing upperclassmen. The main different between last year and this year is that last year we were COUNTING on major contributions from a number of true freshmen who had never played a snap of college football.

This year we have much more experience across the board in terms of starts and playing time. So in all likelihood, most of the true freshmen won't be asked to play huge roles (with the exception of a handful obviously).

Pearson (SR)
Howard (SR)
J. Johnson (SR)
Magitt (RS SR)
Sutton (JR)
Randolph (RS SR)
McNeil (SR) - may not play at all
North (JR)
Dobbs (JR)
Croom (RS JR) - out for 3-5 weeks
JRM (JR)
Weatherd (SR)
Vereen (JR)
Bynum (RS JR)
Crowder (RS SR)
O. Williams (RS SR)
Kerbyson (RS SR)
O'Brien (RS JR)

 

[BeecherVol]

Pinkel mentioned that they have several in their two deep this year. Part of that is a little better recruiting and part of it is the attrition he's had in his depth over the past two years. That's why I do not expect them to be as good as many do.

Yeah.

Mizzou has gone about winning the east in a little different manor compared to most.

UT signed more 4 star players in 2014 than Mizzou has signed in the last 5 classes. And they did it again in 2015. As a rule 4 and 5 star guys are gonna be ready to play earlier than your lower rated guys on average.

 

[bigdaddy]

I would like to see a correlation of youth to wins in the SEC

 

[samanderson]

:rock:

I am sick of this excuse! We are OLD and EXPERIENCED everywhere on the the field! If we don't go undefeated, then Butch sucks and needs to be fired!

But Butch sucks anyway, and we are to YOUNG and INEXPERIENCED to win more than 7 games, so fire Butch again!

And I hate all the UPBEAT fans, and you should SHUT UP! WE SUCK!!






That about covers it I think! :blink:




Yeah!! We might be small, but at least we're slow!! So there!

.

 

[sjt18]

I love a quote like this when we still have people arguing that we aren't a young team.

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

 

[triadvolfan]

This comes up every year. So interesting watching the SEC come to grips with the playoff system. In this new game depth beats talent almost every time. Young men and women won't wrap their heads around the importance of experience for several years. They think that a bunch of high school kids can step on the field and run through it all just because they have a few stars behind their name.

That's a good point. When I was a kid a national champion would play 12 games (11 regular season games plus a bowl). Now a national champion has to play 15. Depth is more critical then it ever was.

 

[BeecherVol]

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

I knew it was a lot but I didn't realize it was that many.

The trend as of late is, sign as many as you can fit and trim the fat so could can add more in the future. It seems that most schools that are practicing this sign in the mid 20's and trim 3 or 4 out a class so they can replace them in a future class only to do that again.

 

[Kristy*]

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

Yes, I agree. Jones does need to address the problem with his attrition rate. Hopefully he'll continue to make progress, and this team will not be young in 1 or 2 more years.

I guess I'm not arguing why we are young. Just pointing out that we still are. And I don't think he's using it as an excuse. I think he's in his coach speak, speaking numbers and facts, and not speculating or giving too much away at this point.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

Yeah, SJT, you have a valid point. But I think it fixes itself.

In Butch's first couple of years, he was establishing the culture he expected. Players signed on without really paying attention. After they got here, they found out not only that he meant it, but it actually impacted their lives. And several of them popped smoke (and I seriously doubt more than one or two of them dropped because of cursing by the coaching staff, if you know what I mean).

Now the culture is closer to being in place. It's out there, tangible. Upperclassmen are enforcing it. Butch & fellow coaches no longer have to carry all that weight alone. It's becoming part of the climate.

Which means visiting recruits will hear about it, feel it, know it exists as they're deciding what school to attend.

Accordingly, fewer will be surprised once they get on campus. --> fewer will leave the program.

We'll always have players who find out they're buried in the depth chart & leave for PT elsewhere. There's a bit of a revolving door at every program. But the significant exodus we saw in the '13 and '14 signing classes, think that eases up substantially from here out.

Time will tell.

 

[triadvolfan]

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

You should cut him some slack on the '13 class. He had to slap that class together quickly and Dooley had done no groundwork to help him out on it. He took some flyers and the class wasn't that big to begin with.

Attrition does seem a bit high to me as well and that could hurt in the long run. We'll see if it becomes an ongoing issue as his classes develop.

 

[orangeluvr]

Yep, especially when Butch said yesterday that 20 True FR will likely see the field on Saturday.

Butch has made that statement several times, good to see someone is paying attention ! :thumbsup:

 

[butchna]

Yeah, SJT, you have a valid point. But I think it fixes itself.

In Butch's first couple of years, he was establishing the culture he expected. Players signed on without really paying attention. After they got here, they found out not only that he meant it, but it actually impacted their lives. And several of them popped smoke (and I seriously doubt more than one or two of them dropped because of cursing by the coaching staff, if you know what I mean).

Now the culture is closer to being in place. It's out there, tangible. Upperclassmen are enforcing it. Butch & fellow coaches no longer have to carry all that weight alone. It's becoming part of the climate.

Which means visiting recruits will hear about it, feel it, know it exists as they're deciding what school to attend.

Accordingly, fewer will be surprised once they get on campus. --> fewer will leave the program.

We'll always have players who find out they're buried in the depth chart & leave for PT elsewhere. There's a bit of a revolving door at every program. But the significant exodus we saw in the '13 and '14 signing classes, think that eases up substantially from here out.

Time will tell.

Piggybacking on these great points I'll add that our ideals of great coaches are presently shaped by the present standard bearers Saban and Meyer. Saban took a lot of lumps forming his system and was never great at Michigan State. How much attrition did he endure in Lansing? Perles had let the program trend downward each and every year, and by the time Saban left Belichick's tutelage with the Cleveland Browns, it was a shell of a program. Saban had one year of head coaching experience (Toledo) and the transition of recruiting the vastly different quality of athletes wasn't forgiving. This helped him learn what does and doesn't work...but he had to SEE IT. He goes to LSU with this experience and we know the rest. Butch had a similar transition when he came. Players like Weisman and Branisel didn't get recruited over at his previous stops. Hendrix and Helm don't even visit...much less get overshadowed by other talents like Barnett and Wolf. That dynamic is tricky especially for a coach that ends up surprisingly great at landing talent. Making all this work while building a program that had reached bottom and started burrowing should be grounds for rational expectations. This year we get to see how Butch coaches elite talent/speed across the board. Hopefully it resembles what Meyer does early and often...and maintains that better when a star leaves and heart issues manifest themselves. :wink2:

 

[robow]

Piggybacking on these great points I'll add that our ideals of great coaches are presently shaped by the present standard bearers Saban and Meyer. Saban took a lot of lumps forming his system and was never great at Michigan State. How much attrition did he endure in Lansing? Perles had let the program trend downward each and every year, and by the time Saban left Belichick's tutelage with the Cleveland Browns, it was a shell of a program. Saban had one year of head coaching experience (Toledo) and the transition of recruiting the vastly different quality of athletes wasn't forgiving. This helped him learn what does and doesn't work...but he had to SEE IT. He goes to LSU with this experience and we know the rest. Butch had a similar transition when he came. Players like Weisman and Branisel didn't get recruited over at his previous stops. Hendrix and Helm don't even visit...much less get overshadowed by other talents like Barnett and Wolf. That dynamic is tricky especially for a coach that ends up surprisingly great at landing talent. Making all this work while building a program that had reached bottom and started burrowing should be grounds for rational expectations. This year we get to see how Butch coaches elite talent/speed across the board. Hopefully it resembles what Meyer does early and often...and maintains that better when a star leaves and heart issues manifest themselves. :wink2:

If Butch can learn to suspend his players for the first quarter, when they get into trouble, we could have another Meyer on our hands.

 

[triad280]

But how long do you get to say that? How long before it has to be asked, "Hey, why is your team still young and thin?" UT signed 53 guys in Jones' first two classes... guys who would be Jrs or Sophs now. A total of 19 are gone.

You can blame the player or give all sorts of reasons or excuses for why they're gone. But the bottom line is that those 53 scholarships only yielded a 34 player addition to the roster. That's an average of 17 players per year... you cannot maintain an 85 man roster with scholarship players at that success rate.... and you will ALWAYS be young and thin.

I will probably get attacked again for point this out. But this is a problem that Jones has to fix to build the program. To be fair, the attrition rate in the '14 class is better than the '13 class. But we have no way of knowing if more won't leave from that class.

It's really no worse than a lot of top programs... In other words,it's called tryouts or dose of reality when it comes to talent for some of these players