Interesting how Florida's several injuries didn't hurt them

#101
#101
govols74n said:
What is the problem then? If our backups are THAT BAD, then why did Butch recruit them? To pad the stats and make us all think that we had better recruiting classes than we actually had? Sure seems that way because these guys absolutely suck, and are getting worse with even more playing time , which makes no sense. I can understand our backups being bad in the beginning, but the defense continues to get worse. Explain that if you can. We are having bad recruiting except for all of the outstanding legacy recruits who have definitely impacted and turned the team around the best they could. It was perfect timing for Butch to jump onto the Vol train and bring in 32 or whatever number of recruits it was that first year. Now look, we have a few decent players next year and no real superstars with actual playing time. What will they do then? None of the current defensive players have been coached up beyond their natural abilities and skills that they came to Tennessee already possessing. Scary situation brewing up and I just hope that the much needed superstars show up next year or it will be very ugly. Other teams will be getting better and we will be taking a step back in my opinion.
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The issue is, our coaching staff is putting players in the wrong positions, and I think it's because of Butch micromanaging. There's no way I'd be playing Kyle P. At DT, and Butch has been set on it. Kongbo at DT I get because he's so big, but KP is a DE. Taylor and Bituli should be playing more. Jumper should be playing less. Bates should be playing more. It's just a theme of Butch being set on certain things (like playing Hurd over Kamara and Kelly which obviously wasn't in our best interest). I think Evan Berry and Byrd should be two way players. The list can go on from here. In the end, I just think there's a lot of player mismanagement on this team, and I don't believe Butch allows Shoop enough room to do his thing, and same for DeBord (even though I think DeBord is below average at best most days).
 
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#102
#102
govols74n said:
What is the problem then? If our backups are THAT BAD, then why did Butch recruit them? To pad the stats and make us all think that we had better recruiting classes than we actually had? Sure seems that way because these guys absolutely suck, and are getting worse with even more playing time , which makes no sense. I can understand our backups being bad in the beginning, but the defense continues to get worse. Explain that if you can. We are having bad recruiting except for all of the outstanding legacy recruits who have definitely impacted and turned the team around the best they could. It was perfect timing for Butch to jump onto the Vol train and bring in 32 or whatever number of recruits it was that first year. Now look, we have a few decent players next year and no real superstars with actual playing time. What will they do then? None of the current defensive players have been coached up beyond their natural abilities and skills that they came to Tennessee already possessing. Scary situation brewing up and I just hope that the much needed superstars show up next year or it will be very ugly. Other teams will be getting better and we will be taking a step back in my opinion.
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The backups we have playing at DT are not DT's. They don't have the size, strength, or technique to shed blocks or keep from getting pushed 2 yards off the ball. This situation we have on defense is the old saying; It's not about the x's and o's, it's about the jimmy's and joe's. We do not have the talent at DT and there is no way to fix it with x's and o's without being absolutely gashed with the throw game for easy td's.
 
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#104
#104
volsportsfan said:
The backups we have playing at DT are not DT's. They don't have the size, strength, or technique to shed blocks or keep from getting pushed 2 yards off the ball. This situation we have on defense is the old saying; It's not about the x's and o's, it's about the jimmy's and joe's. We do not have the talent at DT and there is no way to fix it with x's and o's without being absolutely gashed with the throw game for easy td's.
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This is the issue, but even then Butch has botched some player development. Big Charles should have been a NT the minute Jack Jones came on the scene. Kyle P. should have never seen a snap at DT. List goes on. I'm done repeating myself guys. Just frustrated
 
#106
#106
I will end with this, Bituli, Taylor. A. Smith, Kyle P., Big Charles, Picou, Sapp, and Kongbo all need to be playing a lot next year. I want to see Bituli and Kirkland together. I want to see Smith, Taylor, and Kyle on the edge. I want to see Kongbo used everywhere, and I want to see what Picou and Big Charles can bring a DT. I'd also like to see McDowell, Bates, Berry and Sapp step it and lock down our second string LB core.

Side note, If I misspelled any names I apologize in advance because it's late and I'm too tired to look them up.
 
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#107
#107
chieflawdog said:
I didn't realize they lost both there 1st and 2nd string defensive tackles. When did that happen..
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They lost their two starting LBs and it became the talking point for the broadcasters...when we played the gators we were missing out 2 starting LBs plus out best corner...so maybe if tabor was out of the game today it would be closer to where we were when we BEAT Florida...now since then, we have also lost 3 of our 4 DTs in the 2 deep rotation and that's been a killer for our run D...Kelly was out today but he's only our leading tackler so that's no big deal...

The gators hit one big play today and played tough D...I thought Les Miles wa coaching based on much of LSU's play caling...
 
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#108
#108
keckjm said:
I will end with this, Bituli, Taylor. A. Smith, Kyle P., Big Charles, Picou, Sapp, and Kongbo all need to be playing a lot next year. I want to see Bituli and Kirkland together. I want to see Smith, Taylor, and Kyle on the edge. I want to see Kongbo used everywhere, and I want to see what Picou and Big Charles can bring a DT. I'd also like to see McDowell, Bates, Berry and Sapp step it and lock down our second string LB core.

Side note, If I misspelled any names I apologize in advance because it's late and I'm too tired to look them up.
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Hopefully Sapp will recover fully from his ACL surgery push for the starting job...and let's hope Tuttle and Mackenzie both fully recover and are ready to go in the spring...plus Alexis Johnson who is apparently redshirting (which is strange)...
 
#109
#109
keckjm said:
The issue is, our coaching staff is putting players in the wrong positions, and I think it's because of Butch micromanaging. There's no way I'd be playing Kyle P. At DT, and Butch has been set on it. Kongbo at DT I get because he's so big, but KP is a DE. Taylor and Bituli should be playing more. Jumper should be playing less. Bates should be playing more. It's just a theme of Butch being set on certain things (like playing Hurd over Kamara and Kelly which obviously wasn't in our best interest). I think Evan Berry and Byrd should be two way players. The list can go on from here. In the end, I just think there's a lot of player mismanagement on this team, and I don't believe Butch allows Shoop enough room to do his thing, and same for DeBord (even though I think DeBord is below average at best most days).
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Makes sense, still though theres a major problem with coaching funamentals imo. Offense has seemingly been turning itsself around as of late, but the tackling and players out of position constantly leaves all of us wondering what in the world is going wrong out there. I was watching the linebackers getting blocked by Mizzou's oline before they could even get a step in the right direction. I mean our DT's werent even slowing them down. O-linemen were 5-10 yards upfield knocking our linebackers around while their runningbacks just ran through shoulder tackles again. Crazy. At least we hung 63 on their a$$es though! That was actually fun to watch after them whooping us their first few years in the SEC!
 
#110
#110
They didn't play Alabama and a healthy ATM. That is the real difference folks.

Tennessee would have handled LSU and that sorry offense. And most likely Arkansas, too.
 
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#111
#111
NashVol11 said:
I love this thread and this post. Everyone. Has. Injuries. Every. Year.
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I agree with this ...but its also where your injuries are. We have had an ever evolving injury problem....not just one or two key players or even a few key players. The Will LB position was the heart of the defense design. JRM was to be relied on like the QB. Then you lose your only shut down corner. Then you lose your entire interior Dline across the season and then lose their backups until you get to the point that you have all defensive ends on the field. The secondary has been equally decimated , playing 8 different combinations this season. All the changing bodies creates extreme confusion and issues getting the plays in.

I find it hard to fault the defensive side of the ball.

Offensively , there has been a carousel of issues with the Oline which only added to Dobbs inconsistency in passing accuracy. The offensive has also suffered schematic issues that seem to be related to Hurd ...and it seems like the changes instituted since he left have been for the positive.

So the season was an ever changing landscape of starters and back-ups being hurt ...this was not a situation like UF where we were having to play around a couple of injuries .
 
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#113
#113
Catbone said:
What gives?
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LSU threw the game IMHO. 1st and goal at the 7 and LF never got in the game. Running plays straight up the middle for nothing with the back up. EO is short lived in Baton Rouge!

I hate both LSU and Florida!

:thud:

Tennesseeduke
 
#114
#114
Vol4ever said:
Until we actually spend the money to hire a winning coach, we will always be mediocre.

It's that simple
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You realize that Butch is 18th highest paid coach at $4.1M? 17th if you delete Les Miles - he was above Jones. Sumlin and Strong are two of seven above $5M. Other higher paid coaches are at Mich St, Ole Miss, Miss St, Penn St, Iowa, and Ark; so does more money by more wins??? The only notable (by wins) higher paid coaches than Jones this year are Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, Fisher, and Bob Stoops. He's paid more than the west coast coaches. You are pushing an absurd argument.
 
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#115
#115
majic73 said:
I agree with this ...but its also where your injuries are. We have had an ever evolving injury problem....not just one or two key players or even a few key players. The Will LB position was the heart of the defense design. JRM was to be relied on like the QB. Then you lose your only shut down corner. Then you lose your entire interior Dline across the season and then lose their backups until you get to the point that you have all defensive ends on the field. The secondary has been equally decimated , playing 8 different combinations this season. All the changing bodies creates extreme confusion and issues getting the plays in.

I find it hard to fault the defensive side of the ball.

Offensively , there has been a carousel of issues with the Oline which only added to Dobbs inconsistency in passing accuracy. The offensive has also suffered schematic issues that seem to be related to Hurd ...and it seems like the changes instituted since he left have been for the positive.

So the season was an ever changing landscape of starters and back-ups being hurt ...this was not a situation like UF where we were having to play around a couple of injuries .
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Games without Hurd:
38 at A&M over 700 yds of offense
55 Tenn Tech
49 UK
63 Mizzouri

The cancer is gone and the Offense is clicking!

:loco:

Tennesseeduke
 
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#118
#118
AM64 said:
You realize that Butch is 18th highest paid coach at $4.1M? 17th if you delete Les Miles - he was above Jones. Sumlin and Strong are two of seven above $5M. Other higher paid coaches are at Mich St, Ole Miss, Miss St, Penn St, Iowa, and Ark; so does more money by more wins??? The only notable (by wins) higher paid coaches than Jones this year are Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, Fisher, and Bob Stoops. He's paid more than the west coast coaches. You are pushing an absurd argument.
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Yet it is funny that the highest paid coach is ranked #1 consistantly , and if we have the 17th-18th highest paid coach then we are right on track since we are ranked #19 lmao, just a silly observation from your post.
 
#119
#119
Sarms58 said:
They lost their two starting LBs and it became the talking point for the broadcasters...when we played the gators we were missing out 2 starting LBs plus out best corner...so maybe if tabor was out of the game today it would be closer to where we were when we BEAT Florida...now since then, we have also lost 3 of our 4 DTs in the 2 deep rotation and that's been a killer for our run D...Kelly was out today but he's only our leading tackler so that's no big deal...

The gators hit one big play today and played tough D...I thought Les Miles wa coaching based on much of LSU's play caling...
Click to expand...
Really? We were down an AA safety, two All SEC LBs, a 2nd team All SEC DE and a starting DT went out. On offense, we were down a starting QB and our starting center. Two more starting O-LINEMEN played some though badly injured. Incidentally, three of the four LBs who played were freshmen and 3* recruits at that.
 
#121
#121
So now that Fla got lucky LSU played terribly, we suck more? And since when did 6 injuries for FLA equal our 19? Not trying to make excuses but to have 19 significant injuries and the loss of 2 5*s due to being butt hurt, and still looking to finish 9-3 with a top 5 strength of schedule is not the end of the world. Do the coaches need to do better? Yes. But to suggest or expect them to be fired is more dillusional than Hillary supporters expecting her to still be elected next month.
 
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#123
#123
govols74n said:
Yet it is funny that the highest paid coach is ranked #1 consistantly , and if we have the 17th-18th highest paid coach then we are right on track since we are ranked #19 lmao, just a silly observation from your post.
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By your silly stats I'd guess Texas is at #6 and A&M is at #7 - and definitely that MI St is #14 and LSU is sniffing #13 with Les Miles in control. Louisville and Washington are doing very well with relatively cheap coaches - Harbaugh only makes about 2 1/2 times what they are being paid.
 
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#124
#124
rmeharv said:
So now that Fla got lucky LSU played terribly, we suck more? And since when did 6 injuries for FLA equal our 19? Not trying to make excuses but to have 19 significant injuries and the loss of 2 5*s due to being butt hurt, and still looking to finish 9-3 with a top 5 strength of schedule is not the end of the world. Do the coaches need to do better? Yes. But to suggest or expect them to be fired is more dillusional than Hillary supporters expecting her to still be elected next month.
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What about Florida having a bad offense and still getting it done?
 
#125
#125
tennesseeduke said:
Games without Hurd:
38 at A&M over 700 yds of offense
55 Tenn Tech
49 UK
63 Mizzouri

The cancer is gone and the Offense is clicking!

:loco:

Tennesseeduke
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I agree Duke. There have been some big schematic changes since Hurd began to make his way to the exit ...that have garnered very little attention . When Hurd was the RB , they were typically 4 wide and only 5 blockers. Now they are typically 3 wide and keep 6 blockers and occasionally 7 blockers. They also are using stacked receivers and unbalanced sets. They have simplified the passing tree ...which Dobbs seems to diagnose faster and is releasing the ball on time at seconds rather than seconds . I am not sure if the changes were due to the meltdown at SC or due to Hurds departure ...but I love them .
 
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