Inherited a dumpster fire, left a dumpster fire...

#51
#51
Mini Cooper said:
You have access to the Internet. I am not InfoDad. Please do your own research.

You may start with the 2011 infractions case levied against the university for assistant Willie Mack Garza which actually extended the previous penalties levied earlier for two years, and work backwards from there.

You will soon see why I am not inclined to list them. And why calls for Lane Kiffin to come back, are just stupid as all hell.
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Oh, I agree that Lane shouldn't come back. I thought you were handicapping Dooley due to the infractions. Carry on.
 
#52
#52
jps2194 said:
I was legitimately curious who you are referring to. You didn't originally include those that went to the NFL, so that obviously makes sense with Kamara, Barnett, etc. But outside of those that left early for the NFL, who do you mean. Hurd (glad he's gone), Sherion Jones (QB's always leave) and Preston Williams (hate he left), I'm not remembering anyone significant.
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Ferguson, Helm, bad neck RB, Boulware, Jones, other RB at ECU I think, Malone, Hendrix, Peterman. That's just off the top of my head. Aren't there 30+ missing from Butch's recruiting classes?
 
#54
#54
PrattvilleVol said:
You are correct except you failed to point out the 4 and 5 star players that left the program en mass one way or the other...Nu’Keese Richardson, Bryce Brown, Aaron Douglass, Janzen Jackson, Da’Rick Rogers, Cam Clear, Pat Martin,
I’m sure there are a lot more than I remember. We were down to almost nothing in terms of talent by the time Dooley left.
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You listed six 4 and 5 star players that left under Dooley.

Do you know how many 4 star or higher players left the program under Jones? I count at least 12. That more than evens things up, no?
 
#55
#55
Vol4life2 said:
Wow! Something new on Volnation!! A negative thread about the state of the program. As fans we collectively are poisoned.

The Maxims, upon which our football program is built, are positive in nature because the ball does funny things, calls can go against us, coaches can make bad decisions, but the team will persevere because of the undying belief in our fundamentals.

So get all this out of your system now as our future will be bright with a new staff, new scheme, and players who want to play in front of us!!

Go Vols!!!!!! Beat Vandy!!!!!!!!!
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Agree for the most part, except this team has no fundamentals. Lack of coaching has killed it.
 
#57
#57
SmokyRiverDog said:
Ferguson, Helm, bad neck RB, Boulware, Jones, other RB at ECU I think, Malone, Hendrix, Peterman. That's just off the top of my head. Aren't there 30+ missing from Butch's recruiting classes?
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Payne, Wharton.

Let's throw in the Clemson WR corp just for fun with the understanding they ran before they even arrived.
 
#58
#58
jps2194 said:
I was legitimately curious who you are referring to. You didn't originally include those that went to the NFL, so that obviously makes sense with Kamara, Barnett, etc. But outside of those that left early for the NFL, who do you mean. Hurd (glad he's gone), Sherion Jones (QB's always leave) and Preston Williams (hate he left), I'm not remembering anyone significant.
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Let's see, Daniel Helm, Wharton (800 yards receiving), Boulware, Hendrix, Payne (starting at Iowa State), Mosley, Perry, Williams, Mixon, Griffin, Creamer, Raulerson (WV), Sanders, Bryant.
I'd say Mosley, Raulerson, Sanders and Boulware could have helped a depleted Oline. Think about that for a minute. 4 upper class man versus what we saw the last few games with up to 4 freshman.
Griffin and Payne in the secondary?

No, no attrition problems to see here, move along.
Obviously Malone left despite a bad grade because he saw the problems. 17 was a total collapse and failure and roster management is the reason.
 
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#59
#59
PrattvilleVol said:
You are correct except you failed to point out the 4 and 5 star players that left the program en mass one way or the other...Nu’Keese Richardson, Bryce Brown, Aaron Douglass, Janzen Jackson, Da’Rick Rogers, Cam Clear, Pat Martin,
I’m sure there are a lot more than I remember. We were down to almost nothing in terms of talent by the time Dooley left.
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Now same as then in that regard.
 
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#60
#60
Roustabout said:
Let's see, Daniel Helm, Wharton (800 yards receiving), Boulware, Hendrix, Payne (starting at Iowa State), Mosley, Perry, Williams, Mixon, Griffin, Creamer, Raulerson (WV), Sanders, Bryant.
I'd say Mosley, Raulerson, Sanders and Boulware could have helped a depleted Oline. Think about that for a minute. 4 upper class man versus what we saw the last few games with up to 4 freshman.
Griffin and Payne in the secondary?

No, no attrition problems to see here, move along.
Obviously Malone left despite a bad grade because he saw the problems. 17 was a total collapse and failure and roster management is the reason.
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I wasn't saying there wasn't any, I was responding to the statement "ALL" of our talent had left. Kids leave programs all of the time and it does feel like we've had more than others, but I would not classify it as "ALL of our talent" has left. And you certainly can't include Barnett, Kamara, etc. in that list (which you didn't). Those departures are more about $'s than Butch
 
#61
#61
KBVol said:
You listed six 4 and 5 star players that left under Dooley.

Do you know how many 4 star or higher players left the program under Jones? I count at least 12. That more than evens things up, no?
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Do you think we are in worse shape now than when Butch took over? Not even close IMO. Especially on the OL.
 
#62
#62
The roster is better and especially if most of the injured players recover by next fall. Jones first team should have won 6 or 7 games. They didn't because he can't coach. He leaves a team that can win 8+ games if well coached and developed.
 
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#63
#63
PrattvilleVol said:
Do you think we are in worse shape now than when Butch took over? Not even close IMO. Especially on the OL.
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Dooley didn't recruit well... but he did leave 5 or 6 NFL quality OL's... that weren't fragile. I WISH the next coach were inheriting Fulton, Stone, Tiny, Bullard, James, and Jackson. Gilliam and Kerbyson who were holdovers have been about as good as anyone Jones recruited.

I want to see what a REAL coach can do with these guys... but you are vastly overestimating what Jones has done with the OL.
 
#64
#64
jps2194 said:
I wasn't saying there wasn't any, I was responding to the statement "ALL" of our talent had left. Kids leave programs all of the time and it does feel like we've had more than others, but I would not classify it as "ALL of our talent" has left. And you certainly can't include Barnett, Kamara, etc. in that list (which you didn't). Those departures are more about $'s than Butch
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Why do you continue to misquote me? You do know the use of quotation marks denotes something as said exactly by that source? I said all of the depth and most of the talent has departed. Nowhere was it insinuated that there were not some talented players still sprinkled around the roster. However, there is a lack of talent at many positions and absolutely no depth to mention.
 
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#65
#65
Ridiculous thread. On APR alone Butch deserves our thanks. It didn’t work out, but he helped rather than hurt us.
 
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#66
#66
Big Z said:
I will say while yes he left this team with better talent he also left it with a huge depth issue. That's what happens when you run off over 40 of your own recruits
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It also ensures you underperform. 40 recruits - had to be a few good lineman and playmakers in there that no matter your depth would have contributed to the win rate.
 
#67
#67
jps2194 said:
A dumpster fire is what Dooley left - no talent. This team has plenty of talent and can be competitive next year with the right coaching staff.
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UMMM OK. For the Great Butch's first few years of ripping off the people of Tennessee (and he got a lot of support from easily duped fools) who's players was he using? It seems, from a factual point of view, butch's early "successes" were with Dooley's players. This year was big butch's year five, his players..... I just can't agree that Dooley left us with no talent. Jones has such great talent on the team now, I just don't understand why we didn't win every game this season. I do agree with you, IF we get the right coach/staff, we should be able to turn the ship around, but even one or two wins against SEC schools will be a Huge improvement over this year. We can only hope.:hi:
 
#68
#68
SmokyRiverDog said:
Why do you continue to misquote me? You do know the use of quotation marks denotes something as said exactly by that source? I said all of the depth and most of the talent has departed. Nowhere was it insinuated that there were not some talented players still sprinkled around the roster. However, there is a lack of talent at many positions and absolutely no depth to mention.
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Excuse me and allow me to apologize for saying "all talent" rather than "all depth". I still think you are over stating the situation, but we can agree to disagree. Would the transfers have helped, obviously, but that is not the reason we don't have quality depth. That is due to injuries and the complete lack of player development.

To say "all of the depth" and "most of the talent" is absurd :hi:
 
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#70
#70
Wii60 said:
Ridiculous thread. On APR alone Butch deserves our thanks. It didn’t work out, but he helped rather than hurt us.
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Dr Joe Scoggin is the real “hero” behind our turnaround in APR....he has done a phenomenal job with the Thornton Center for the athletes. And Dave Hart hired him, not Jones. Butch surely gets some credit here since the turnaround happened on his watch as head coach and there’s no doubt he made it a priority for the team and supported Scoggin’s outstanding efforts. But let’s don’t get it twisted here, the real man behind the APR success is Scoggin.
 
#72
#72
Dumpster fire? I’m not sure the Program is even good enough to qualify as a “dumpster fire.” It’s more like an empty dumpster.
 
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