In state talent

#1
V

volberry

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#1
I did read on another thread that we don't have much of this. If so, how do we fix that problem? There has to be a way to build up our schools.
 
#3
#3
Talk to your legislators about modifying the law so Tennessee HS's can hire better coaches.
 
#4
#4
One reason is simply population. We have no where near as many kids in our state as Florida, California, or Texas.
 
#5
#5
Vol8188 said:
One reason is simply population. We have no where near as many kids in our state as Florida, California, or Texas.
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This.
Really, there's no way that any one group (aside from legislators) can fix the problem. CA, UF, and other states drenched in talent generally have more money invested in their public schools. Memphis schools, however, can't afford anyone to pick the weeds from their football fields.
We can only depend on the three or so 4*'s that are in-state; the rest we have to recruit from out-of-state.
 
#6
#6
National and larger-area regional recruiting. It's how Fulmer did it in the 90's, it's how Dooley will have to do it. UT's recruiting abilities depend in some measure on the contemporary success of UF, UGA, Bama and Auburn (and I guess USCjr these days, too). Problem is they're all recruiting very well right now, leaving us with scraps from their states. Dooley's working on changing that, but there's still a long road ahead.
 
#9
#9
VolsByNature said:
steroids
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exactly... everyone should start slipping their kids some of that stuff barry was allegedly taking. a few generations of that and we will be right up there. :dance2:

But more seriously. No it is not a population thing. There are quite a few states with smaller or similar populations that crank out talent. Heck Bama cranks out enough talent for 2 schools as does Georgia.

Fact is you take all the schools in the SEC if any one (with the exception of UT, Vandy and UK) locked down the top recruits in their state year in year out they could be competitive year in year out. Most of those schools are in states with smaller populations than us. Heck the argument for population hardly holds water even for Florida because a very large percentage of their population is retirees.

The states cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities that are invested. You want us to start putting out more talent? Then someone is going to have to raise taxes and people around here ain't having that.
 
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#11
#11
gnm53108 said:
The Titans have been here since 98....Their kids aught to be hitt'n highschool soon.
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Won't matter, it is not because we don't have the raw materials. We don't have the programs to develop them. The state has always put out talent just really raw talent that rarely pans out. Genes only get you so far.
 
#12
#12
pimo1 said:
Won't matter, it is not because we don't have the raw materials. We don't have the programs to develop them. The state has always put out talent just really raw talent that rarely pans out. Genes only get you so far.
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This. Other states are way head in developing talent.
 
#13
#13
pimo1 said:
Won't matter, it is not because we don't have the raw materials. We don't have the programs to develop them. The state has always put out talent just really raw talent that rarely pans out. Genes only get you so far.
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I think this is the main reason. I would say up until the last few years, the first time Tennessee kids put on pads and played football was in 6th grade. Thats the first time it was available to me and I'm 28. Developing and supporting youth football is key to these kid's development.
 
#14
#14
pimo1 said:
The states cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities that are invested. You want us to start putting out more talent? Then someone is going to have to raise taxes and people around here ain't having that.
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Not sure what you mean by "Cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities", but if you are referring to just educational spending, you are way off.

There is no correlation when it comes to quality of football recruits to educational spending, measured per capita or per student.

Per capita, none of the big 3 recruiting states - California, Florida and Texas - are in the top 15 per capita spending.

Texas is middle of the pack. Florida is 48 and Tenessee is 50. So the big three occupy slots 16, 26 and 48. That kind of spread shows there is no correlation between per capita spending and their high school talentn.

Spending per student also has nothing to do with it. Here is an analysis adjusted for regional costs.
Notice that Tennessee spends more per student adjusted for regional costs that Texas and California, but all three are are in the bottom six.

Like many issues, money doesn't fix high school football talent. Even if it did, it would be a TERRIBLE goal for spending tax dollars to produce better football players.
 
#15
#15
pimo1 said:
exactly... everyone should start slipping their kids some of that stuff barry was allegedly taking. a few generations of that and we will be right up there. :dance2:

But more seriously. No it is not a population thing. There are quite a few states with smaller or similar populations that crank out talent. Heck Bama cranks out enough talent for 2 schools as does Georgia.

Fact is you take all the schools in the SEC if any one (with the exception of UT, Vandy and UK) locked down the top recruits in their state year in year out they could be competitive year in year out. Most of those schools are in states with smaller populations than us. Heck the argument for population hardly holds water even for Florida because a very large percentage of their population is retirees.

The states cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities that are invested. You want us to start putting out more talent? Then someone is going to have to raise taxes and people around here ain't having that.
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Florida has no state income tax as does Tennessee. Georgia's population is 9.829 million compared to Tennessee's 6.296 million. Florida's population is 18.54 million so even if half of them are retired, they still have us beat by 3 million. So in both of those cases I would have to say that yes population has a lot to do with it. In the case of Alabama they only have 4.709 million people, but they have a slight advantage of 24% vs. 23.7% of their population being under 18 and then a much larger advantage in 26.3% of their population is black as opposed to 16.8% in TN. With the majority of division 1 athletes being black, this is a substantial advantage in recruiting.
 
#16
#16
glhal2814 said:
Not sure what you mean by "Cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities", but if you are referring to just educational spending, you are way off.

There is no correlation when it comes to quality of football recruits to educational spending, measured per capita or per student.

Per capita, none of the big 3 recruiting states - California, Florida and Texas - are in the top 15 per capita spending.

Texas is middle of the pack. Florida is 48 and Tenessee is 50. So the big three occupy slots 16, 26 and 48. That kind of spread shows there is no correlation between per capita spending and their high school talentn.

Spending per student also has nothing to do with it. Here is an analysis adjusted for regional costs.
Notice that Tennessee spends more per student adjusted for regional costs that Texas and California, but all three are are in the bottom six.

Like many issues, money doesn't fix high school football talent. Even if it did, it would be a TERRIBLE goal for spending tax dollars to produce better football players.
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Florida also has a lower sales tax at .06 as opposed to .07 in TN.
 
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#17
#17
I threw out earlier about the Titans...but that got me thinking.The NFL throws alot of money into camps,youth programs,and youth football programs.The three "big" recruiting states have multiple NFL franchises.

Wonder if that has something to do with it?
 
#18
#18
Vol8188 said:
One reason is simply population. We have no where near as many kids in our state as Florida, California, or Texas.
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A small part maybe. Tn has more people than La, SC, AL, and MS. All of those states produce more top recruits than Tn. Racial demographics may also be a part of it but the much larger population of white kids should produce more talent then we see.

The biggest problem is the quality of football from youth leagues up and the HS coaching.
 
#19
#19
Vol8188 said:
Florida also has a lower sales tax at .06 as opposed to .07 in TN.
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Isn't data great?

They are 41 when it comes to education spending per student adjusted for region, so the Big 3 Recruiting all are in the bottom ten. So there is a negative correlation.

Also, Florida, like all US states, had a higher population of people under 18 than over 65 based on the 2000 Census (2010 Census numbers aren't in yet).

California, Florida and Texas will be 46% of the population by 2030.

So again, its a population thing.
 
#20
#20
glhal2814 said:
Isn't data great?

They are 41 when it comes to education spending per student adjusted for region, so the Big 3 Recruiting all are in the bottom ten. So there is a negative correlation.

Also, Florida, like all US states, had a higher population of people under 18 than over 65 based on the 2000 Census (2010 Census numbers aren't in yet).

California, Florida and Texas will be 46% of the population by 2030.

So again, its a population thing.
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"The states cranking out talent have money behind their programs and communities that are invested. You want us to start putting out more talent? Then someone is going to have to raise taxes and people around here ain't having that."

The reason I mentioned the sales tax being lower in FL than in TN, and that neither have a state income tax, is because they said we needed to raise taxes.
 
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#21
#21
sjt18 said:
A small part maybe. Tn has more people than La, SC, AL, and MS. All of those states produce more top recruits than Tn. Racial demographics may also be a part of it but the much larger population of white kids should produce more talent then we see.

The biggest problem is the quality of football from youth leagues up and the HS coaching.
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SC has 4.561 million people of which 28.2% are black. LA has 4.492 million of which 32.1% are black. MS has 2.951 million of which 37.2% are black. Since we are talking about producing top talent, in 2011 and 2010 there were 26 5 star players of those 26 two kids were white. I am not trying to turn this into a race debate or anything, but you can not deny facts. In order for a state to produce major college athletes on a regular basis, they need a large population of black people, and TN simply does not have that.
 
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#22
#22
Oh yeah, I got your point related to taxes, and I'm with you on it.

By extension, the per student adjusted spending article I quoted showed that there isn't a correlation between per student spending and SAT results either.

Efficency with dollars matters more than total dollars.
 
#23
#23
Vol8188 said:
Florida also has a lower sales tax at .06 as opposed to .07 in TN.
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Seriously...? Income tax and or sales tax have little bearing on the spending you are referring to. Property taxes drive a lot of education revenue.

Like it has been said already, the issue stems from a lack of municipal programs to promote early development of talent. Not sure I buy the race equation either. You want better in state talent, support your local pop warner leagues by volunteering or coaching.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#24
#24
jbone said:
Seriously...? Income tax and or sales tax have little bearing on the spending you are referring to. Property taxes drive a lot of education revenue.

Like it has been said already, the issue stems from a lack of municipal programs to promote early development of talent. Not sure I buy the race equation either. You want better in state talent, support your local pop warner leagues by volunteering or coaching.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Property Tax / Finance Department / City Departments / City of Alcoa - City of Alcoa

Alcoa has a property tax of only 1.96, yet they have one of the best coaching staffs in TN and maybe the most talent as well.
 
#25
#25
You guys are missing the fact that 80% or greater of the 5 star recruits never pan out. You have to find talent that you have a legit chance of getting number 1. You are wasting your time on the guy who wanted to be a dog or longhorn all his life an the ones who go to a school because they can play early are usually divas who got spoon fed in jr pro and high school. Number 2 what TN lacks is the kid who grows up wanting to be a Vol all of his life. TN is a melting pot of everyone from everywhere. Kids in TN these days grow up becoming a fan and watching where daddy grew up. Majority of the time that is not TN.
 
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