In Responding To The So Called "NegaVols"...

[MedicT]

For most, it's not lack of understanding, it's simple difference of opinion. The problem is rather than discuss that difference, we immediately resort to namecalling, which solves nothing. Just as different football coaches have different philosophies, so to do fans. That doesn't make them ignorant, it just means they don't share your style of thinking. Most fans want what's best for the team and they want to win. We just tend to disagree on what is best for the team and how to accomplish those wins. Doesn't change the fact at the end of the day, we're all Vol fans.

Yes, however when a poster states that a coach or a coaching staff should use this scheme or that scheme or should have called a time out or played a certain player as if they possessed a level of expertise beyond the actual coaching staff, all in an effort to find an excuse to attack said staff. There is nothing wrong with asking questions that lead the original poster to point out that indeed they DO NOT possess such knowledge.

 

[butchna]

I am in the middle of trying to survive through cancer, really was not wanting to share this but your response to mine, I think I need to, in order to show where I am coming from. The amount of people I have seen with bad attitudes while I am in the hospital just let cancer ruin their lives is overwhelming. Not with the getting cured of it so much. But with letting the experience consume them and their families life.

And if you actually read my post I am not trying to preach to anyone on how to live their lives. All I did was say to give Inky's message a chance. It is as true when it comes to football as it is to getting through cancer or any adverse situation, be it a life changing one or just trivial like getting cut off while driving and keeping your road rage in check. Maybe that person cutting you off and making you slow down just kept you from an accident down the road.

Why you would take offense to my original post is confusing to me. As my only message was trying to take positives out of any situation. That does not mean you are not allowed to dislike CBJ and feel he is not the man who will eventually get it done. In fact it is the opposite, maybe CBJ was meant to come here and recruit well, get the right kids in here for the next coach to come in and see immediate and fantastic results.

I personally don't feel that way, I think CBJ will be the guy to get it done within the next 2 years. But you are entitled to your own opinion. I am just saying that the people who refuse to find anything positive to say about our team in ANY situation, I feel extremely sorry for. Because if you can not find anything positive to say about the team you support in football when you are supposed to be a fan(short for fanatic). Then the rest of your life must be pretty bleak as I am sure they can not or will not find anything positive to see/say about anything.

Do not take my words.. like I said listen to inky. He has been through way more then most people and the message he teaches can be life changing. And for the better.

Got me crying buddy... Praying for you.

 

[JFBanicki]

Yes, however when a poster states that a coach or a coaching staff should use this scheme or that scheme or should have called a time out or played a certain player as if they possessed a level of expertise beyond the actual coaching staff, all in an effort to find an excuse to attack said staff. There is nothing wrong with asking questions that lead the original poster to point out that indeed they DO NOT possess such knowledge.

I get that there are some people that won't be happy until CBJ and his staff are fired and replaced with those peoples dream staffs. But reading the OP its almost impossible to argue a point no matter how valid it is, as the OP left himself an out no matter what anyone says. If they say something about the staff then all he has to do is say the players need to execute. If you say something about the players then he can go to the whole well they aren't all his players arguement. And if you make a point about a different coach all he has to say is I wasn't talking about them, read my post, I said CBJ.

I will say I don't think CBJ needs to go anywhere but back to work. the last thing we need is another new HC, but that doesn't mean we don't need at least a new Oline coach and CBJ to put his foot up Bajakians rearend to get him to install some faster developing plays than just the wr screen. The wr screen is designed to stop the cb blitz justlike the rb screen to stop lb blitzing, but when a team is getting heavy pressure with just the front 3 or 4 the cb or lb is still sitting there to stop the screen. Even Vandy was able to make us look bad because of his inability to adjust away from the slow developing read option plays when our RB was getting hit the second he got the ball or the qb had to scramble for his life the instant he was done doing the read part of the read option on 50% of the snaps.

 

[windrider]

This crap has been discussed ad nauseam

Agree. Lets move on.

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

Who seem to revel in human Big Orange misery may I make a few rather important points. It is the job of every head coach to prepare his team and have them ready to win each game. All any coach can do is put his team in the position to win be that strategy and practice game prep. At some point the players must execute and play a near flawless game in order to carry out the plan and win the game. Now let us examine the 2 games possibly 3 that these so called nega folk seem to be wallowing in misery over.


1. Georgia-if Worley doesn't spend most of the 3rd quarter sidelined we may have dominated said quarter and won. Nothing to be altered here. At this time of the season Justin was fairly healthy although this game pretty much sent him on the road to season ending injuries. In addition the Hurd fumble hurt but those are the breaks of the game. What could Butch have done differently here?

2. Florida- Once again team is prepared and D dominates. Justin has a bad game. Look I think the world of the kid and I don't think he lost the game for us...but he didn't do the things offensively to WIN the game. Once again Butch has us in position to win so what on earth could he possibly have done different?

3. Missouri- Gary Pinkel is a great coach...has been there 14 years and knows his kids. He had them prepared for what Josh could do to them...most great coaches do that...and in my mind Pinkel is a great coach. Malone's dropped pass/interception was huge here as if we score we are up in the 4th. Once again the breaks of the game...player error...human error. Even those here who say Butch won't take chances would have to be impressed with the fake field goal pass play for a TD. Butch rolled the dice...he did everything to win.


So my question is...and I am hoping for some logical responses...what could Butch have done?

Good post CPF.....very accurate! Some people will never get it. They will instead just blame the coaches! They will say, "Well Maone dropped that pass because of bad coaching, blah, blah, blah!"

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

This crap has been discussed ad nauseam

You are right, it has! And I gave you a like for it! However, if you don't like, DON'T OPEN THE THREAD!

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

look at ohio state down to the 3rd qb but he looks like a pro in the championship game. if that had been these coaches with a 3rd string qb they couldnt beat vandy....oh wait..lol

i know its the talent it had nothing to do with the oc n qb coach getting him prepared at ohio state..:crazy:

He looks like a pro because he is very talented, and may quite possibly one day be the starting quarterback. He also looks like a pro because of his surrounding cast. Great D and great o-line go a long way in this. What do we have? Nothing close. And no, it couldn't have been fixed with two cycles of recruiting!

 

[sjt18]

This crap has been discussed ad nauseam

Yeah... but condescendingly calling someone a "negavol" is a difficult temptation to pass by if you need some... affirmation.

 

[sjt18]

He looks like a pro because he is very talented, and may quite possibly one day be the starting quarterback. He also looks like a pro because of his surrounding cast. Great D and great o-line go a long way in this. What do we have? Nothing close. And no, it couldn't have been fixed with two cycles of recruiting!

Yep. And if Vol fans will just see the logic of giving a coach 6-8 years to rebuild everything to perfection then maybe UT will have someone like that as their 3rd string QB too, right? Maybe then we can expect the Vols to break that magic 8 win threshold once in awhile. Oh wait... Meyer has only been at tOSU a year longer than Jones has been at UT.... doggone facts just keep getting in the way of excuses, don't they?


Sorry to point out the obvious but Meyer has had an immediate impact on W/L in the first year everywhere he's landed. He's a snake and a liar. He's untrustworthy and self-absorbed... but there's no question about his ability to take someone else's talent and win with it.

 

[arkivol]

I don't think any coach unless he is on some kind of suicide mission would withhold any player that gives him a chance to win...unless there is a very good reason for it.

I LAUGHED at this one, it is like yeah screw the bowl game and the raise I am going to deliberately throw the season to the dogs, so I can pack all my sh## / stuff up next year and move my family again. :crazy::crazy:

Well played sir!

 

[butchna]

Yep. And if Vol fans will just see the logic of giving a coach 6-8 years to rebuild everything to perfection then maybe UT will have someone like that as their 3rd string QB too, right? Maybe then we can expect the Vols to break that magic 8 win threshold once in awhile. Oh wait... Meyer has only been at tOSU a year longer than Jones has been at UT.... doggone facts just keep getting in the way of excuses, don't they?


Sorry to point out the obvious but Meyer has had an immediate impact on W/L in the first year everywhere he's landed. He's a snake and a liar. He's untrustworthy and self-absorbed... but there's no question about his ability to take someone else's talent and win with it.

So Jim Tressell left Columbus barren? How about the 13-1 to 8-5 five game dip between 2009-2010 with HIS OWN players? Highly rated players at that! If he had gone to a dumpster fire and accomplished this, I'd acknowledge your point...but OHIO STATE? :huh:

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Disclaimer--The following is sarcasm.

But Butch gets it and should be given unlimited time to get his players in (they are in Middle School now) so they will buy into his system. He has won national championships everywhere he has been. Anyone who doesn't see, that 5-10 years down the road, we will be back and competitive should just get out and go cheer for another team. Stupid Nega-Vol Trolls expecting improvement next year...Butch gets it, therefore we should just support him and ignore W/L and concentrate on moral victories and talk about how Butch and the best staff in America get it and are recruiting so well (They actually are). Even if we go 6-6 for the next 3 years, that is the process. Get on BOARD or get off the train.

 

[Weezer]

Yes, however when a poster states that a coach or a coaching staff should use this scheme or that scheme or should have called a time out or played a certain player as if they possessed a level of expertise beyond the actual coaching staff, all in an effort to find an excuse to attack said staff. There is nothing wrong with asking questions that lead the original poster to point out that indeed they DO NOT possess such knowledge.

And what about the people who do possess that knowledge? Despite what some posters believe, some of the criticism of Butch is coming from people who do indeed understand the game and the schemes. Butch is human. He's not Superman, or Jesus. He makes mistakes, and some of us are able to see them and recognize them for what they are. That doesn't make him a bad coach. Is Saban a bad coach? No, but he made an obvious mistake in last year's Iron Bowl. This is football, not rocket science.

And to be fair, honest criticism is not an attack, at least not in the light you are trying to paint it in. People in every profession are subjected to criticism every day on how they perform their job. Butch is not an exception.

I could understand you being angry at people taking true personal jabs at Butch, but questioning his job performance is not a character assault. You're being overly sensitive and showing too far too much devotion to a head coach when the team is who deserves that devotion. Head coaches come and go over time, but the team is always there. Sure, the players may change, but it's still our Vols taking the field.

 

[sjt18]

So Jim Tressell left Columbus barren? How about the 13-1 to 8-5 five game dip between 2009-2010 with HIS OWN players? Highly rated players at that! If he had gone to a dumpster fire and accomplished this, I'd acknowledge your point...but OHIO STATE? :huh:

Yes... because we're not asking for tOSU type of success at this point. None of us are stomping our feet demanding a NC... or even an SEC championship. You're a negavol if you simply recognize that this staff has not yet optimized the talent of either of its first two teams.

Meyer consistently does that. He took over a BGU team that had gone 5-6, 5-6, and 2-9 in the previous 3 years and promptly went 8-3 and 9-3. Utah had been 4-7, 8-4, and 5-6 before he took them to 10-2 then 12-0. UF had 3 consecutive seasons with 5 losses before Meyer took over. He went 9-3 and 13-1 in his first two years with UF.

Since Jones and Co took over, we've basically seen a continuation of what UT has seen since 2008. The 2007 season was the last one when UT actually had a winning regular season record. Yeah... I know... "Process"... "brick by brick". I TRULY hope the first two years have been some sort of foundation laying exercise and we a sudden upswing in actual gameday performance. But honestly... I respond to results and not promises. We've seen 7 years... patiently seen them... when we were promised that things were just about to turn around.

I make absolutely no apologies for wanting to see Jones prove it rather than just say it.

 

[Rickyvol]

we had a winning regular season record in 2009

Yes... because we're not asking for tOSU type of success at this point. None of us are stomping our feet demanding a NC... or even an SEC championship. You're a negavol if you simply recognize that this staff has not yet optimized the talent of either of its first two teams.

Meyer consistently does that. He took over a BGU team that had gone 5-6, 5-6, and 2-9 in the previous 3 years and promptly went 8-3 and 9-3. Utah had been 4-7, 8-4, and 5-6 before he took them to 10-2 then 12-0. UF had 3 consecutive seasons with 5 losses before Meyer took over. He went 9-3 and 13-1 in his first two years with UF.

Since Jones and Co took over, we've basically seen a continuation of what UT has seen since 2008. The 2007 season was the last one when UT actually had a winning regular season record. Yeah... I know... "Process"... "brick by brick". I TRULY hope the first two years have been some sort of foundation laying exercise and we a sudden upswing in actual gameday performance. But honestly... I respond to results and not promises. We've seen 7 years... patiently seen them... when we were promised that things were just about to turn around.

I make absolutely no apologies for wanting to see Jones prove it rather than just say it.

 

[MedicT]

And what about the people who do possess that knowledge? Despite what some posters believe, some of the criticism of Butch is coming from people who do indeed understand the game and the schemes. Butch is human. He's not Superman, or Jesus. He makes mistakes, and some of us are able to see them and recognize them for what they are. That doesn't make him a bad coach. Is Saban a bad coach? No, but he made an obvious mistake in last year's Iron Bowl. This is football, not rocket science.

And to be fair, honest criticism is not an attack, at least not in the light you are trying to paint it in. People in every profession are subjected to criticism every day on how they perform their job. Butch is not an exception.

I could understand you being angry at people taking true personal jabs at Butch, but questioning his job performance is not a character assault. You're being overly sensitive and showing too far too much devotion to a head coach when the team is who deserves that devotion. Head coaches come and go over time, but the team is always there. Sure, the players may change, but it's still our Vols taking the field.

Let me say I have no particular "devotion" to Butch Jones other than I see particular qualities in his program that I think are the road to success for UT football in time. I am not angry over the silly exchanges on VN. My usual motivation for my posts is a recognition of the childish impatience on the part of many in the fan base. While I know those who have this attitude at this point have no relevance in the greater scheme of things, I do find it remarkable and that is what I do.......remark.:hi:

Very few participants here make sensible comments about the X's and O's of football. Most simply repeat what others have said or what they have heard in the media using different nomenclature usually not even realizing what they are doing. At the same time there is great entertainment value in that sort of contribution and I would NEVER want to dissuade anyone from posting. I do reserve the right to frequently remind the so called "Negavols" that Jones is going to be here for a very long time. Have a great weekend everyone!

 

[JFBanicki]

Ok so after reading the last few pages I think I got this. You're either a true fan and think Butch and Co are the greatest thing since sliced bread and everything thats gone wrong is all on the players or the previous staff because this staff "gets it" "brick by brick" and is optimizing the horrible talent with "the process" and had these incompetent kids not screwed up we would be in the playoff, with a bye, because we would have been that awesome because of the coaches.

Or.....

You're just a negavol or troll and def aren't a real fan and never will be.

 

[sjt18]

we had a winning regular season record in 2009

I stand corrected. You are right. Kiffin went 7-5 with a thin roster with spotty talent then lost his bowl game.

 

[butchna]

Ok so after reading the last few pages I think I got this. You're either a true fan and think Butch and Co are the greatest thing since sliced bread and everything thats gone wrong is all on the players or the previous staff because this staff "gets it" "brick by brick" and is optimizing the horrible talent with "the process" and had these incompetent kids not screwed up we would be in the playoff, with a bye, because we would have been that awesome because of the coaches.

Or.....

You're just a negavol or troll and def aren't a real fan and never will be.

Then you have that radical fringe group that supports their coach until it's proven that things aren't working. :loco:

 

[sjt18]

Let me say I have no particular "devotion" to Butch Jones other than I see particular qualities in his program that I think are the road to success for UT football in time.

I see some. And I also see some big, giant question marks that have yet to be answered in a positive way.

I am not angry over the silly exchanges on VN. My usual motivation for my posts is a recognition of the childish impatience on the part of many in the fan base.

Me neither. My motivation is usually a recognition of the ignorance of those who think "patience" and "time" will yield good results somewhere off in the distant future. Not even Jones believes that. He knows he's on the clock and absolutely knows that "momentum" in recruiting and on the field are critical to any hope of ever winning.

While I know those who have this attitude at this point have no relevance in the greater scheme of things, I do find it remarkable and that is what I do.......remark.:hi:

Nor do those who insist on lowering the bar low enough that just the "feeling" that Jones is better than Dooley would satisfy them.

I do reserve the right to frequently remind the so called "Negavols" that Jones is going to be here for a very long time. Have a great weekend everyone!

Reserve whatever you want. Fulmer received an extension and significant raise after the 2007 season. It was questioned by some fans but went through without resistance... he was fired the next season. And HE is a UT icon for what he accomplished before his decline.

The buyout given by UT was abjectly stupid. The raise wasn't... the extension wasn't. The buyout WAS. Unless Jones starts winning games, someone will end up paying big $$$ for that mistake.

 

[sjt18]

I support Jones. But I refuse to turn a blind eye or act like I'm too stupid to notice performance by him, his team, or his staff that isn't good.

 

[Cletus P Fulmer]

I for one am just elated Butch stopped the bleeding...no make that hemorrhaging...and I don't care if we are 6-6...7-5...or 8-4.

 

[sjt18]

I for one am just elated Butch stopped the bleeding...no make that hemorrhaging...and I don't care if we are 6-6...7-5...or 8-4.

What in the WORLD are you talking about...?

6-6? 7-5? That IS BLEEDING.

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

Yep. And if Vol fans will just see the logic of giving a coach 6-8 years to rebuild everything to perfection then maybe UT will have someone like that as their 3rd string QB too, right? Maybe then we can expect the Vols to break that magic 8 win threshold once in awhile. Oh wait... Meyer has only been at tOSU a year longer than Jones has been at UT.... doggone facts just keep getting in the way of excuses, don't they?


Sorry to point out the obvious but Meyer has had an immediate impact on W/L in the first year everywhere he's landed. He's a snake and a liar. He's untrustworthy and self-absorbed... but there's no question about his ability to take someone else's talent and win with it.

DUMB! JUST DUMB! That team was stocked full of talent when Meyer go there. Do you remember the Tressell years? You are right about Meyer! Every bit of what you said, and he sure as heck did take all of Tressells talent and win with it. Anybody could win with that talent! Do yo u really think OSU was in the same situation with depth and personnel that UT is in right now? Hell No!

No one is advocating giving CBJ 8 years before he gets on the hot seat. That's just dumb!

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

I for one am just elated Butch stopped the bleeding...no make that hemorrhaging...and I don't care if we are 6-6...7-5...or 8-4.

He he has stopped the bleeding, and he is repairing the wounds left by two douche bags of a coach! It's obvious it will take time to get the depth and talent back to where it was!