JohnWardForever
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I'm hearing great things about Dooley
- Thread starter hamburgerVol
- Start date
I'm so sick of people freaking out for an "all-star" coaching staff.
Take away hid dad, Monte, and the only thing "all-star" about kiffin's staff was that he said it was.
Kiff created this myth. Stop believing his hype. He's gone.
And for those downing our new coaches, please, give me some names of these "all-star" coaches that are out there just setting and waiting for a job offer two weeks before NSD?
Not that I support Kiffin in any way ...the way he walked out on us was un professional to say the least ..and the contant attempt at taking UT recruits and coaches makes me wish him nothing but failure . That was an all star cast of coaches ...save one. They virtually all had some kind of success , most had NFL experience , and all had regional recruiting ties .
Kippy Brown ( a highly sought after NFL receiver coach )
Eddie Gran proven RB coach , St coach
Monte - nuff said
Garza - porduced a dominating defense at ND - lower level of ball but big time success
Orgeron - sad human but HC experience , DL experience , NFL experience , outstanding recruiter
Reeves - the only homer hire of the bunch , but had SC recruiting ties
craig - NFL o line coach
Chaney - proven record setting OC , NFL experience
Lance Thompson - awesome recruiter proven LB coach
What "Big Name" coaches would you suggest we run out and get?? [/B]
I think the Cutcliffe hire was much safer than this . The guy can coach and has set records where ever he has went. At UT or Ole miss he had no shortage of O talent that wanted to play for him , especially given his ability to get them to the next level.
I think CLK really altered all of our expectations as far as coaching staffs go, so I get where you're coming from. But think about it...where did this fascination with an all star staff and all star recruiters begin??
Look at who was at UT under CPF....Larry Slade, Steve Caldwell, Greg Adkins, Dan Brooks, Matt Luke, David Cutcliffe, Trooper Taylor. Now was that was an All Star staff with All Star recruiters when they got here?? - Not even close. most of that staff came from lesser known programs. Cutcliffe before he caught on at UT was a high school coach for pete's sake. In fact, only Slade had any real success on his resume before coming to K-ville.
Agreed
See CLK and Yaw Yaw didn't believe that recruits would come to TN for its tradition ,its "brand name"...he tried to make UT the USC of the east and removed many of the posters and images of UT's glory days and replaced them with USC success stories. He thought he needed to sell recruits on the ALL STAR Coaches.
I think there is some logic to this . UT has no real in state recruiting base. It would be simple to find a bunch of kids that 'bleed orange' if they had a base . Instead , you have to go where the 4 and 5 star kids are ....out of state. Those kids will , 90% of the time , want to go to A) the team thats winning B) the team that they believe will get them to the next level C) there hometown power house. Lane chose to pandor to B. since A. and C. do not apply .
Name me one other school that does that...I'll wait. Saban?? Meyers?? Paterno?? Mack Brown?? Even Pete Carroll never did that. We all came to know some of the names of their assistants as they did well, they never sold the public on their staff....they sell their program and the school
These guys all have instate recruiting ...some more than others. So A B and C all apply . Whereas , when the Vols are out in Texas , or Cali , or Florida or where ever B would be the only thing that would apply for UT.
Meyer brought many assistants from Bowling Green to Utah and then to FL. Before anyone else says Utah better than Memphis, MTSU, etc....My family lives there and until U. Meyer got there, you need to go back to the 60's and the big sky conference to find a good Ute team.
Meyer didn't come to a program that needed to recruit nationally to survive . Whatever yahoos he chose to bring would not have a recruiting issue. I have no doubt that these unknown coaches can coach . My doubt is in recruiting . They are unknown and cannot sell B. to the out of state kids because they have no background in B. Are they gonna sell academics , facilities , family environment ? are those things that much better at UT than Texas ? USC ? Florida ?
Point is, give it a shot. Our coaches don't need to be from Tennessee, or a UT alum, or even very well known. Many coaches are well thought of within coaching circles and other coaches know their ability - just us folks following our team never payed attention to up and comers at smaller programs who just might be the next Saban, or Paterno....
Put the negativity away, stop pining for Fulmer or coaches past, take a deep breathe and do all you can to support the future of our beloved university.[/QUOTE]
I support them , they are what we have , and it will hurt just as bad for the Vols to lose regardless of who is coaching . I have no option other than to give them a chance . Based on what I have said , I think these guys could very well fall into the same trap Fulmer and crew did : taking left overs , discipline problems , and project players . At least lane and crew understood the A B C 's of national recruiting .
I think the Cutcliffe hire was much safer than this . The guy can coach and has set records where ever he has went. At UT or Ole miss he had no shortage of O talent that wanted to play for him , especially given his ability to get them to the next level.
I think CLK really altered all of our expectations as far as coaching staffs go, so I get where you're coming from. But think about it...where did this fascination with an all star staff and all star recruiters begin??
Look at who was at UT under CPF....Larry Slade, Steve Caldwell, Greg Adkins, Dan Brooks, Matt Luke, David Cutcliffe, Trooper Taylor. Now was that was an All Star staff with All Star recruiters when they got here?? - Not even close. most of that staff came from lesser known programs. Cutcliffe before he caught on at UT was a high school coach for pete's sake. In fact, only Slade had any real success on his resume before coming to K-ville.
Agreed
See CLK and Yaw Yaw didn't believe that recruits would come to TN for its tradition ,its "brand name"...he tried to make UT the USC of the east and removed many of the posters and images of UT's glory days and replaced them with USC success stories. He thought he needed to sell recruits on the ALL STAR Coaches.
I think there is some logic to this . UT has no real in state recruiting base. It would be simple to find a bunch of kids that 'bleed orange' if they had a base . Instead , you have to go where the 4 and 5 star kids are ....out of state. Those kids will , 90% of the time , want to go to A) the team thats winning B) the team that they believe will get them to the next level C) there hometown power house. Lane chose to pandor to B. since A. and C. do not apply .
Name me one other school that does that...I'll wait. Saban?? Meyers?? Paterno?? Mack Brown?? Even Pete Carroll never did that. We all came to know some of the names of their assistants as they did well, they never sold the public on their staff....they sell their program and the school
These guys all have instate recruiting ...some more than others. So A B and C all apply . Whereas , when the Vols are out in Texas , or Cali , or Florida or where ever B would be the only thing that would apply for UT.
Meyer brought many assistants from Bowling Green to Utah and then to FL. Before anyone else says Utah better than Memphis, MTSU, etc....My family lives there and until U. Meyer got there, you need to go back to the 60's and the big sky conference to find a good Ute team.
Meyer didn't come to a program that needed to recruit nationally to survive . Whatever yahoos he chose to bring would not have a recruiting issue. I have no doubt that these unknown coaches can coach . My doubt is in recruiting . They are unknown and cannot sell B. to the out of state kids because they have no background in B. Are they gonna sell academics , facilities , family environment ? are those things that much better at UT than Texas ? USC ? Florida ?
Point is, give it a shot. Our coaches don't need to be from Tennessee, or a UT alum, or even very well known. Many coaches are well thought of within coaching circles and other coaches know their ability - just us folks following our team never payed attention to up and comers at smaller programs who just might be the next Saban, or Paterno....
Put the negativity away, stop pining for Fulmer or coaches past, take a deep breathe and do all you can to support the future of our beloved university.[/QUOTE]
I support them , they are what we have , and it will hurt just as bad for the Vols to lose regardless of who is coaching . I have no option other than to give them a chance . Based on what I have said , I think these guys could very well fall into the same trap Fulmer and crew did : taking left overs , discipline problems , and project players . At least lane and crew understood the A B C 's of national recruiting .
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VolsNUT
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NO!!! Your going to B1TCH and MOAN like you always do!!!!
I have yet to see ANYTHING positive from you. But I DO hear "pom-poms and pitchforks" religeously! Seriously, get over yourself. Do you think M Hamilton lay awake at night wondering what he did to piss you off?
Its ok to not be happy with something, but please give it a rest and get some friends. Its embarrasing to think that other teams fans look on this board and get to read your BS.
rockytophigh
Rod Wilks is my co-pilot
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iuvol2012
*Mythotical and *Rentless
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NEO
Eat at Joe's
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Yes, Leach a guy who in 10 seasons at Tech never had a losing season. Most of his players and the fans loved him. It was only 1 player who expected special treatment caused a problem for him. There was a lot more to that then 1 player pushing his buttons. The AD was trying to get out of buying out Leach's contract by terminating him for a violation.
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butchball13
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We still have Cheney & Thompson. We added Baggett.
Russell, Hinshaw, and Joseph have as much props as does Frank Wilson or Willie Mack.
We can argue resumes til we're blue in the face. These guys have experience.
I see your point, but I'm just tired of the "all-star" staff myth perpetrated by the prince of darkness.
This whole argument is just the after effects of bad one night stand. (Lane's Tenure)
Go Vols!
:rock:
butchball13
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definately not trying to splits hairs but only to expand on the recruiting issue ...
the 'all star staff ' we'll get you to the NFL thing was smart . UT has no in state recruiting . When they go into other states to recruit top propects they have to sell something . Most kids are going to want to go to their regional powerhouse . Or the want to go to the flavor of the day ...whoever is winning . They all sell facilities , education, tradition ...and among the top programs they are all pretty close. The NFL sell was the one powerful thing UT has going for it with out of state players. Phil had made a killing with it ...and Lane turned it into a science. Lane also brough coaches in with different regional ties .
bagget is definately need to continue selling this ...mind you no matter what CDD wants to sell ...he will have to sell the NFL ...unless he expects to with 10 + games this season.
The other guys are not even close to Mack and Wilson .
Wilson coached at Southern Miss and Old Miss running backs and turned out some really good ones.
Garza was a starting safely for the Longhorns for 3 years , coached safeties at TCU , and was a DC for North Dakota State where he was very successful .
One has had SEC experience and success and the other has coached position and been a successful DC at a smaller school ...and has name recognition in TX .
There have got to be more guys out there like them .
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VolAlumNGatrland
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I support them , they are what we have , and it will hurt just as bad for the Vols to lose regardless of who is coaching . I have no option other than to give them a chance . Based on what I have said , I think these guys could very well fall into the same trap Fulmer and crew did : taking left overs , discipline problems , and project players . At least lane and crew understood the A B C 's of national recruiting .[/QUOTE]
There some areas where I will disagree with your analysis.
1) Paterno, Saban, et al. have good in-state recruiting.
Look, at Bama's current verbals - a half dozen or so are from in state only 2-3 are 4* or better. Same with Penn State. Other big programs are in the same position. Really only the CA, FL and TX programs have a built in In -State recruiting base...just about everyone else has to go outside their state for top players to fill 1/2 to the majority of their classes. So TN may have to do this a bit more, but thankfully for the past 30 years we can raid GA, NC, FL, VA and LA and sometimes TX/OK for some top talent and between all that with a couple in-state guys we do ok....the early to mid Fulmer years were full of top 10 classes recruited be no-name coaches.
2.) UT has been a top 10-20 program for decades. It has been in a lull for the past, well 5 years really. However, over the past 10-15 years UT has sent as many or more players to the NFL than USC, FL, FSU, Bama, etc... In fact for a good number of years (late 90's-early 2000's) UT had more players in the NFL than any other university. If you cannot sell the tradition of UT football, our facilities, our University as a whole...then you are doing a poor job. Selling the coaches was all about Kiff's ego. There is certainly enough to sell recruits on.
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There some areas where I will disagree with your analysis.
1) Paterno, Saban, et al. have good in-state recruiting.
Look, at Bama's current verbals - a half dozen or so are from in state only 2-3 are 4* or better. Same with Penn State. Other big programs are in the same position. Really only the CA, FL and TX programs have a built in In -State recruiting base...just about everyone else has to go outside their state for top players to fill 1/2 to the majority of their classes. So TN may have to do this a bit more, but thankfully for the past 30 years we can raid GA, NC, FL, VA and LA and sometimes TX/OK for some top talent and between all that with a couple in-state guys we do ok....the early to mid Fulmer years were full of top 10 classes recruited be no-name coaches.
2.) UT has been a top 10-20 program for decades. It has been in a lull for the past, well 5 years really. However, over the past 10-15 years UT has sent as many or more players to the NFL than USC, FL, FSU, Bama, etc... In fact for a good number of years (late 90's-early 2000's) UT had more players in the NFL than any other university. If you cannot sell the tradition of UT football, our facilities, our University as a whole...then you are doing a poor job. Selling the coaches was all about Kiff's ego. There is certainly enough to sell recruits on.[/QUOTE]
Bama has 2 or 3 instate guys ...
UT has 1
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In a 4 year cycle ...
2.5 instate propects x 4 = 10
1 X 4 = 4
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that means a program like Alabama can cover 1 side of the ball with their instate recruits.
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You can talk about selling our facilities , education , blah , blah , blah
At the top of the college football foodchain it is all about the same. They all have traditions . Thats pillow talk .
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These top notch recruits are looking NFL all the way . You are right about UT being an NFL pipeline . Majors and Phil sold it like they owned it. Lane , with his all star staff and media presence turned it into a science....it was showing in his recruting classes.
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The new coaches worry me. I am hearing that CDD's trys to find the diamond in the rough . He won't necessarily go after the 4 & 5 star guy ...unless they have the whole package. He will take a 3 star instead that has the personal traits he like. He approaches players like he does coaches...not trying to put together an allstar cast . This seems lofty , and if he can pull it off then it is a dream come true. However , I find it doubtfull that he can keep up with the slash and burn recruiting that the SEC has become these days with this mindset. He did not learn this philosophy during his bromance with Saban.
VolAlumNGatrland
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Kippy Brown (a highly sought after NFL receiver coach )
Was at home doing nothing - nobody was beating down his doors. Kiffin calling him at the urging of some in the AD offices got him back in the game and brought him back to Carroll's attention. He is great coach, don't get me wrong, but there are others. Baggett is as good or better at taking college talent to the next level at the NFL level - Not an All Star
Eddie Gran proven RB coach , St coach
Agreed - but would not have been here this year. Did not fit in with the Kiffin wild bunch. Made his name recruiting S. FL more than coaching per se, but a good coach as well. No RB coach replacement was ever named - All Star
Monte - nuff said - Nuff Said - All Star
Garza - produced a dominating defense at ND - lower level of ball but big time success
N. Dakota State?? thats D II football...success there is like success in high school (exaggeration). - nobody ever heard of him prior to Kiff and his association with Janzen Jackson - Not an All Star
Orgeron - sad human but HC experience , DL experience , NFL experience , outstanding recruiter
Yaw Yaw sucked as a HC. He is an outstanding recruiter, and from what we witnessed at his "going away party" we see why. He is never afraid to push the envelope on the rules, and many say go further than that....we'll see what the NCAA turns up on his phone calls to UT players and commits...Good DL coach....but by far his claim to fame is his recruiting - All Star Coach
Reeves - the only homer hire of the bunch , but had SC recruiting ties
Don't even know where to start with this guy. I don't even know what he really ever brought to the table. He seemed to never be credited with much by the staff and then Kiff didn't even tell him he was leaving. Nobody ever heard of him prior to his hire - Not an All Star
craig - NFL o line coach (sp. cregg)
Cregg being an NFL O-line coach is not that big a deal in my book. Dooley may pull an NFL to coach our line next year. Nobody ever heard of this guy before Kiff brought him here from Oakland - He's not considered one of the top NFL O-line guys. He was only the asst O-line coach in Oakland and prior to that was a D-line coach at Univ of Idaho - Not an All Star
Chaney - proven record setting OC , NFL experience
Chaney is good. Not the most highly sought after comodity. For all his record setting OC years he was coaching TE for the Stl Rams. Few if any were beating down his door to be their OC at the time. Not known as a big time recruiter - Solid hire by all means but - Not an All Star
Lance Thompson - awesome recruiter proven LB coach
Awesome recruiter...yes - LB coach...ehhh, actually most of his experience is as a D-line coach, he moved to LBs to accommodate YawYaw. I would say great solid coach, maybe border line All Star
Looking at our new staff as it develops we have Chaney and Thompson as hold overs. Dooley has a rep of being a crack recruiter under Saban. We will see who else he brings on. I'm guessing here, but, IMHO our next O-line, D-line and DC will be guys with NFL experience or veteran college guys to offset the younger up-and-coming coaches
rekinhavoc
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