I'm back, and I'm furious.

#1

DowntownVol

Stylin' and Profilin'
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Sep 4, 2005
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#1
I've been lurking all season; haven't had much time to post, as I've been busy with work and a new lady in my life, but... that was pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Hat already made most of the points I was going to make (and it's good to see you're still here telling it like it is and owning the newbies in the face of withering amateur criticism), but I will add this:

At a certain point, you have to start playing to win, as opposed to playing not to lose. This goes double if you're already playing from behind.

Call me a blasphemer, and yes, I realize that all fourth down situations are not created equal, but if you're trailing in the game, your defense is getting chewed up, and you're facing a 4th and 1 or 4th and 3 at or near midfield, why WOULDN'T you go for it? For one thing, it sends the message to your offense - particularly your offensive line - that you have no confidence in them, which has to be somewhat demoralizing. Saban had no problem going for it in similar situations, with a patchwork (and generally inferior) OL due to suspensions. Rich Brooks rolls the dice, and it pays off for him more often than not. And Les Miles seems to be doing just fine, thank you, with staying aggressive.

There's a modern school of football thought that says that punting is an overused and overrated tool. If you go for it on 4th and 1, 4th and 2, you would hope that your odds are better than 50/50 of getting the first down. That's another chance for your offense to score, and at least four more plays that your defense gets to rest on the sidelines. (look at the time of possession stats from today's game - not defending the godawful play of our defense, but it's hard to stop a team for four quarters when you're on the field 15 minutes longer than your offense is.) So you punt, and what happens? From midfield, touchbacks are common - bring the ball to the 20, and your punt results in a net field position gain of only 30 yards. There's always the possibility (especially with our craptacular special teams play) of a long punt return, even a return for a TD. The best case scenario is to pin them deep, inside their 5 yard line, but even if that happens, you are still surrendering a scoring opportunity and putting your defense back on the field. (okay, actually, I suppose the best case scenario is that their return man fumbles the punt, and you recover and score, but how often does that happen?)

Sorry for the long, rambling post, but the distillation of my point is this: this is 2007, not 1957. Football continues to evolve. The winning programs and winning coaches tend to be the ones willing to stay aggressive, rather than conservative. If UT wants to maintain its reputation as an elite program (assuming it still has said rep), our football philosophy MUST evolve. It's clear that the current coaching staff has no interest in evolving, so it's time (and I'm hardly a NegaVol) for a regime change in Knoxville, and never has that been more clear to me than after today's game.
 
#3
#3
I've been lurking all season; haven't had much time to post, as I've been busy with work and a new lady in my life, but... that was pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Hat already made most of the points I was going to make (and it's good to see you're still here telling it like it is and owning the newbies in the face of withering amateur criticism), but I will add this:

At a certain point, you have to start playing to win, as opposed to playing not to lose. This goes double if you're already playing from behind.

Call me a blasphemer, and yes, I realize that all fourth down situations are not created equal, but if you're trailing in the game, your defense is getting chewed up, and you're facing a 4th and 1 or 4th and 3 at or near midfield, why WOULDN'T you go for it? For one thing, it sends the message to your offense - particularly your offensive line - that you have no confidence in them, which has to be somewhat demoralizing. Saban had no problem going for it in similar situations, with a patchwork (and generally inferior) OL due to suspensions. Rich Brooks rolls the dice, and it pays off for him more often than not. And Les Miles seems to be doing just fine, thank you, with staying aggressive.

There's a modern school of football thought that says that punting is an overused and overrated tool. If you go for it on 4th and 1, 4th and 2, you would hope that your odds are better than 50/50 of getting the first down. That's another chance for your offense to score, and at least four more plays that your defense gets to rest on the sidelines. (look at the time of possession stats from today's game - not defending the godawful play of our defense, but it's hard to stop a team for four quarters when you're on the field 15 minutes longer than your offense is.) So you punt, and what happens? From midfield, touchbacks are common - bring the ball to the 20, and your punt results in a net field position gain of only 30 yards. There's always the possibility (especially with our craptacular special teams play) of a long punt return, even a return for a TD. The best case scenario is to pin them deep, inside their 5 yard line, but even if that happens, you are still surrendering a scoring opportunity and putting your defense back on the field. (okay, actually, I suppose the best case scenario is that their return man fumbles the punt, and you recover and score, but how often does that happen?)

Sorry for the long, rambling post, but the distillation of my point is this: this is 2007, not 1957. Football continues to evolve. The winning programs and winning coaches tend to be the ones willing to stay aggressive, rather than conservative. If UT wants to maintain its reputation as an elite program (assuming it still has said rep), our football philosophy MUST evolve. It's clear that the current coaching staff has no interest in evolving, so it's time (and I'm hardly a NegaVol) for a regime change in Knoxville, and never has that been more clear to me than after today's game.

After watching the Georgia and MSU game we all had some inkling this would happen. This staff is toast. Their team has quit on them one too many times this year. We have missed you DT.
 
#7
#7
you should be. I didn't go to the game and I am furious. Oh by the way did tennessee play today?????
 
#9
#9
After watching the Georgia and MSU game we all had some inkling this would happen. This staff is toast. Their team has quit on them one too many times this year. We have missed you DT.

Thanks, Lex. I've missed you guys, too. I'll be around more often now, and even more often than that once hoops finally gets here, which at this point can't possibly happen soon enough.
 
#10
#10
if you're trailing in the game, your defense is getting chewed up, and you're facing a 4th and 1 or 4th and 3 at or near midfield, why WOULDN'T you go for it?


I was asking this very same question. And we actually had the ball on BAMA's 45. Then there was a 5yd penalty against that brought it out to the 25. I have no idea why you dont try to convert 4th and inches especially at that point in the game
 
#11
#11
Because they are coaching not to lose the game, instead if coaching to win the game, like Saban did.
 
#12
#12
I guess the 4th down situation just made me so mad because I'm of the opinion that if you're not good enough to convert 4th & inches, you don't deserve to win anyway
 
#13
#13
I've been lurking all season; haven't had much time to post, as I've been busy with work and a new lady in my life, but... that was pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Hat already made most of the points I was going to make (and it's good to see you're still here telling it like it is and owning the newbies in the face of withering amateur criticism), but I will add this:

At a certain point, you have to start playing to win, as opposed to playing not to lose. This goes double if you're already playing from behind.

Call me a blasphemer, and yes, I realize that all fourth down situations are not created equal, but if you're trailing in the game, your defense is getting chewed up, and you're facing a 4th and 1 or 4th and 3 at or near midfield, why WOULDN'T you go for it? For one thing, it sends the message to your offense - particularly your offensive line - that you have no confidence in them, which has to be somewhat demoralizing. Saban had no problem going for it in similar situations, with a patchwork (and generally inferior) OL due to suspensions. Rich Brooks rolls the dice, and it pays off for him more often than not. And Les Miles seems to be doing just fine, thank you, with staying aggressive.

There's a modern school of football thought that says that punting is an overused and overrated tool. If you go for it on 4th and 1, 4th and 2, you would hope that your odds are better than 50/50 of getting the first down. That's another chance for your offense to score, and at least four more plays that your defense gets to rest on the sidelines. (look at the time of possession stats from today's game - not defending the godawful play of our defense, but it's hard to stop a team for four quarters when you're on the field 15 minutes longer than your offense is.) So you punt, and what happens? From midfield, touchbacks are common - bring the ball to the 20, and your punt results in a net field position gain of only 30 yards. There's always the possibility (especially with our craptacular special teams play) of a long punt return, even a return for a TD. The best case scenario is to pin them deep, inside their 5 yard line, but even if that happens, you are still surrendering a scoring opportunity and putting your defense back on the field. (okay, actually, I suppose the best case scenario is that their return man fumbles the punt, and you recover and score, but how often does that happen?)

Sorry for the long, rambling post, but the distillation of my point is this: this is 2007, not 1957. Football continues to evolve. The winning programs and winning coaches tend to be the ones willing to stay aggressive, rather than conservative. If UT wants to maintain its reputation as an elite program (assuming it still has said rep), our football philosophy MUST evolve. It's clear that the current coaching staff has no interest in evolving, so it's time (and I'm hardly a NegaVol) for a regime change in Knoxville, and never has that been more clear to me than after today's game.

Yes,I agree with u on all of it-I came to the same conclusion today as well,and I am all for a new coaching staff,someone younger and innovative,who desires to keep up with the evolution of college football. I have watched Tn football for 20 yrs,and I love my team-but something has got to change. I really thought we were turning this miserable,horrible season around after Ga,but I was badly mistaken.
 
#15
#15
I agree and it is sad to watch them play. I'm not sure I have seen another team play the game like we do. All other team play with emotion. I acually have respect for this coaching staff but it must change!!!!
 
#16
#16
I guess the 4th down situation just made me so mad because I'm of the opinion that if you're not good enough to convert 4th & inches, you don't deserve to win anyway

I concur, I said elsewhere that it pisses me off when you tell a team that you are to scared to try a 4 down play, like we did in the Cal game. I mean KY tried one on there own 30 yard line and got it.

Just take a look around the leagues and you will see other teams trying it more and more. But our antiquated thinking caching staff still thinks they are playing teams that aren’t going to try to convert a 4th and 1, and are completely puzzled when a team lines up to try it and can’t figure out how to stop it.

Times are going to be hard here for the rest of this season.
 
#17
#17
this team can accomplish nothing greater than not embarrassing itself again the rest of this season. given the level of their play to date, that would be a major accomplishment. otherwise, you can put this one in the books, filed under seasons you don't care to recall.
 
#18
#18
Good discussion on the sad state of Tennessee Football. I wonder if Mike Hamilton reads the postings on any of these chat boards. This is my first posting, I just joined about 10 minutes ago. Lifelong Vol Fan that is just sick and tired of finishing 3rd or 4th in the East. This year there is a good chance that they will finish 5th. It is time to look at some new coaching talent that is not from the same old coaching tree that has been there since the days of Battle or Dickey. Someone young and energetic that can bring a new mindset to a league that has passed by our current regime.
 
#19
#19
I wonder if Mike Hamilton reads the postings on any of these chat boards.
No, there's no money involved in it. I don't even think he reads his emails, but he does care enough to have an automated response set up.
 
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