Illegal Substitution on LSU???

#1
PeytonBerry

PeytonBerry

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#1
I looked at the replay and thought it was odd, that LSU was able to substitute so many players after lining up (though not set).

I looked at the NCAA rules for substitutions, but I couldn't find anything for or against it.

If it was indeed an illegal substitution, a flag should have been thrown immediately before UT reacted. Then LSU would have a five yard penalty and played from the six for one final play.

Does anyone know about this rule?

Also does anyone know about 12 players on the field for LSU?
 
#2
#2
Ol Tony Barnhart said LSU was legal but UT was illegal.

One being able to be reviewed the other not.
 
#3
#3
PeytonBerry said:
I looked at the replay and thought it was odd, that LSU was able to substitute so many players after lining up (though not set).

I looked at the NCAA rules for substitutions, but I couldn't find anything for or against it.

If it was indeed an illegal substitution, a flag should have been thrown immediately before UT reacted. Then LSU would have a five yard penalty and played from the six for one final play.

Does anyone know about this rule?

Also does anyone know about 12 players on the field for LSU?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say this - but just let it go. Talking about all LSU's possible penalties would just make you more frustrated and it won't change the outcome. In the end, we had so many chances to win the game and it never should have even come down to that play.
 
#4
#4
Sudeepvol said:
I'm sorry to say this - but just let it go. Talking about all LSU's possible penalties would just make you more frustrated and it won't change the outcome. In the end, we had so many chances to win the game and it never should have even come down to that play.
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I'm sorry, but I really want to know this. I am moving on, but this is important to me.
 
#5
#5
Here is my question.... if they threw the flag on the play, then why did they have to talk to the replay booth?
 
#6
#6
PeytonBerry said:
I looked at the replay and thought it was odd, that LSU was able to substitute so many players after lining up (though not set).

I looked at the NCAA rules for substitutions, but I couldn't find anything for or against it.

If it was indeed an illegal substitution, a flag should have been thrown immediately before UT reacted. Then LSU would have a five yard penalty and played from the six for one final play.

Does anyone know about this rule?

Also does anyone know about 12 players on the field for LSU?
Click to expand...

Actually, I think the game can end on an offensive penalty, so they wouldn't have gotten another play.
 
#8
#8
I think the offense has to be in the huddle for the substitution penalty, but I was wondering the same thing because they clearly have 12-13 on the field at the line.
 
#9
#9
Not that it matters, but I don't understand how LSU can have 14 guys on the field (count them on the last play) and we have to wait until they finished substituting. In the end, all UT had to do was wait until they finished subbing and then bring our guys on the field watching the time expire.

I'm convinced Miles baited us into making a substitution violation. There is no excuse, we need to get this fixed.
 
#10
#10
rjd970 said:
Not that it matters, but I don't understand how LSU can have 14 guys on the field (count them on the last play) and we have to wait until they finished substituting. In the end, all UT had to do was wait until they finished subbing and then bring our guys on the field watching the time expire.

I'm convinced Miles baited us into making a substitution violation. There is no excuse, we need to get this fixed.
Click to expand...

Don't make Miles out to be the genius. I'm not even sure he knows LSU won the game.
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#12
#12
He's not asking how many Dad. He's asking if they executed the sub properly or illegally. And I agree with the poster who said we shouldve WAITED on their sub, then taken the NCAA ALLOTTED TIME to sub, which would have run the clock out. Man o Man. Pressure got us.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#13
#13
Orangekush423 said:
He's not asking how many Dad. He's asking if they executed the sub properly or illegally. And I agree with the poster who said we shouldve WAITED on their sub, then taken the NCAA ALLOTTED TIME to sub, which would have run the clock out. Man o Man. Pressure got us.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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\/

PeytonBerry said:
...Also does anyone know about 12 players on the field for LSU?
Click to expand...
 
#15
#15
rjd970 said:
Not that it matters, but I don't understand how LSU can have 14 guys on the field (count them on the last play) and we have to wait until they finished substituting. In the end, all UT had to do was wait until they finished subbing and then bring our guys on the field watching the time expire.

I'm convinced Miles baited us into making a substitution violation. There is no excuse, we need to get this fixed.
Click to expand...

Miles is not that bright.
 
#16
#16
Orangekush423 said:
He's not asking how many Dad. He's asking if they executed the sub properly or illegally. And I agree with the poster who said we shouldve WAITED on their sub, then taken the NCAA ALLOTTED TIME to sub, which would have run the clock out. Man o Man. Pressure got us.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

I call this bullxxxx. I quickly glanced through the NCAA rule book, and did not find a rule stating that the referees have to give the defense "allotted time" to substitute if the offense subs. Especially in the situation when the time is running out, the ref has to set the ball as soon as possible and let the teams play out. Then it's up to either side to decide whether or not to sub. From what I saw the ball was set when LSU started to sub (I believe it's not illegal sub since they didn't break the huddle with more than 11 men, in fact, they never formed a huddle on that play), and LSU could start the play anytime they want after the ball was set.

The common knowledge tells me the only thing that will delay this procedure is when the refs have to wait for the chain to move up. The common knowledge also tells me the defense should be ready whenever the ball is ready.

We had 13, they had 11 when the ball was snapped, and 13 men on the field was just so blatant, and the refs had no choice but to call it. As far as potential false start, unsportsmanlike conduct etc. on the offense, for whatever reason, the refs chose to not call those "fouls", and that's probably what Dooley's inquiry letter is about.
 
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#18
#18
the way I understand it, in the no huddle situation. If the Offense subs the defense is supposed to be given adequate time to sub. my question is how many seconds is considered adequate? I would argue with the amount of time left when they made the subs Adequate time did not exist. its gonna be interesting to see how the league and NCAA handle this rule.
 
#19
#19
NCAA Rules Changes - 2000 - Football.Refs.Org

Here is the NCAA press release from 2000 when the illegal substitution rule was changed in order to "curb offenses from gaining an advantage over defenses through the use of substitution practices." The press release further states: "Offensive teams, while in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, are now prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball with the obvious attempt to create a defensive disadvantage.

The first time officials detect such an action, play will be stopped when the ball is snapped and the offending team will be penalized five yards for delay of game. In addition, the head coach will be warned that any further use of the tactic will result in a stoppage of play and a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

"More offenses are utilizing multiple substitutions, and those substitutes are coming onto the field just before the snap, which is not within the spirit of the rules," Ault said. "Defenses were at a distinct disadvantage because they had little opportunity to make necessary adjustments.

"We anticipate that having the possibility of being penalized will encourage offenses to abide by the spirit of the rules and eliminate such last-second personnel changes."

Sounds to me like the correct call would have been a 5-yard delay of game penalty on LSU.
 
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