If we get “Will Grier’d“ in the upcoming years

WoodsmanVol

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BS. Schools are academic institutions - a place where you go to learn the essentials that you will use in life. Most of us paid our way; in my case I traded three years in the Army ('67 - '70) and then used the GI Bill to finish my BS and MS in engineering. Personally, I'm not even sure I agree with the concept of athletic scholarships. You go to school for an education; if you want to play sports, fine. Potential NFL athletes are adequately compensated by universities; they get more hands on training and career development that any other student to make them marketable - the coaching, the body building, the facilities, the opportunity to use and showcase their skills just for starters.

The best solution would be for the NFL to step up and start a minor league, and leave universities to education and amateur sports.
That's true for most of us. However, recruits ARE recruited to play football, hopefully, be a serious cash cow. If that wasn't true the school wouldn't be spending the cash they do for recruiters, hosting player visit, and the time and energy to go after the highest level players they can get. Bulls do **** and it's used for fertilizer which is good for fields and garden, including stadiums and player development programs. But people like you only want to view life via your own person prism and damn everybody else. Which brings us back to schools exploiting players, while denying players the same privilege. Then when they sit out a meaningless bow game covertly and overtly damn them. It's the only time a player has power to say NO. In a nutshell, I semi-like your NFL solution. If done right and not the college way, or abusing players even worse than colleges. Greed sleeps with a lot of strange bedfellows.
 

VOLNPA

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BS. Schools are academic institutions - a place where you go to learn the essentials that you will use in life. Most of us paid our way; in my case I traded three years in the Army ('67 - '70) and then used the GI Bill to finish my BS and MS in engineering. Personally, I'm not even sure I agree with the concept of athletic scholarships. You go to school for an education; if you want to play sports, fine. Potential NFL athletes are adequately compensated by universities; they get more hands on training and career development that any other student to make them marketable - the coaching, the body building, the facilities, the opportunity to use and showcase their skills just for starters.

The best solution would be for the NFL to step up and start a minor league, and leave universities to education and amateur sports.
Kids go to college to increase income potential. That is all. The rest is idealist fluff.
 

AM64

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That's true for most of us. However, recruits ARE recruited to play football, hopefully, be a serious cash cow. If that wasn't true the school wouldn't be spending the cash they do for recruiters, hosting player visit, and the time and energy to go after the highest level players they can get. Bulls do **** and it's used for fertilizer which is good for fields and garden, including stadiums and player development programs. But people like you only want to view life via your own person prism and damn everybody else. Which brings us back to schools exploiting players, while denying players the same privilege. Then when they sit out a meaningless bow game covertly and overtly damn them. It's the only time a player has power to say NO. In a nutshell, I semi-like your NFL solution. If done right and not the college way, or abusing players even worse than colleges. Greed sleeps with a lot of strange bedfellows.
I don't think athletes are abused at all. They want to play sports, schools try to find the best, athletes (if offered scholarships) decide which offer to choose. Their time on the field is just like everyone's effort in the classroom ... sweat equity. If they are NFL caliber, they stand to benefit highly from the coaching they receive and the opportunity to show what they can do, and in return they stand to make incomes far above what just about any other student will ever make. So it's sweat equity; you put in more on the front end for a high return on the back end. What athletes receive in the way of preparation (coaching, room and board, facilities, tutoring, transportation to and from games, uniforms, cost of attendance, etc) goes well beyond what the school shells out in return for what an average student pays to attend. For the majority of schools athletics is a losing proposition ... there is no profit to share with athletes. Do you think other students working hard to pick up the skills they need for a profession should subsidize someone who wants to play football - especially someone of NFL and, therefore, much higher earning potential? Sorry, but it's still just a game, and I do happen to enjoy football - particularly UT football.
 

WoodsmanVol

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I don't think athletes are abused at all. They want to play sports, schools try to find the best, athletes (if offered scholarships) decide which offer to choose. Their time on the field is just like everyone's effort in the classroom ... sweat equity. If they are NFL caliber, they stand to benefit highly from the coaching they receive and the opportunity to show what they can do, and in return they stand to make incomes far above what just about any other student will ever make. So it's sweat equity; you put in more on the front end for a high return on the back end. What athletes receive in the way of preparation (coaching, room and board, facilities, tutoring, transportation to and from games, uniforms, cost of attendance, etc) goes well beyond what the school shells out in return for what an average student pays to attend. For the majority of schools athletics is a losing proposition ... there is no profit to share with athletes. Do you think other students working hard to pick up the skills they need for a profession should subsidize someone who wants to play football - especially someone of NFL and, therefore, much higher earning potential? Sorry, but it's still just a game, and I do happen to enjoy football - particularly UT football.
Where there's money involved, there's exploitation, manipulation, and abuse of power. Take it or leave it. History proves this is what humans do.
 

Boca Vol

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UT fans were whining and complaining about opening the '17 season with GT and their cut-blocking schemes. Just curious if any of these holier than thou types would have an issue if a DL (that's a certain draft pick) decided to skip a bowl game against GT.
 

captain chaos

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To me, it's a clear indicator of a young man's mindset, his values.

If he really cares for his teammates, he'll play in his final game with them.

If he cares more for himself, he'll do what best serves his own interests; that may mean sitting the game out.

I won't hate the kid who makes a selfish decision, and depending on the circumstances, I still may think of him as a VFL. But I'll definitely see it as a defining point of his character, who he really is.
will grier is awful. how dare he make a decision that secures the financial future of wife and child.
 

HonestVol24

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Players don’t owe the school anything at all. If skipping a meaningless bowl game is in their best interest then by all means do that. Fans care about exhibition bowl games wayyyyyyy more than players.
 
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Risk millions of dollars or play in some meaningless game to suit random fan? Easy choice imo unless random fan will make up the difference if he gets hurt.

Judging a guy on one game when they've given 3-5 strong years to a program is ridiculous
Meaningless to whom? Every time my team was on the field it meant something to me. You're playing for your teammates as much or more than anyone else. To not go out on the field with when you're physically able is abandoning your brothers IMO. And I believe most football players believe the same.

I would not draft a kid who would do this because it shows a weakness in character. That is my subjective opinion.
 

cgrish

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Players don’t owe the school anything at all. If skipping a meaningless bowl game is in their best interest then by all means do that. Fans care about exhibition bowl games wayyyyyyy more than players.
I think there needs to be insurance policies to cover injuries for those projected to be in the nfl draft in these bowl games and the players need to play.
 

WoodsmanVol

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I think there needs to be insurance policies to cover injuries for those projected to be in the nfl draft in these bowl games and the players need to play.
That would go beyond mere lip service by colleges caring about their players. If they did this, skipping a bowl game is far less forgivable.
 

WoodsmanVol

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Meaningless to whom? Every time my team was on the field it meant something to me. You're playing for your teammates as much or more than anyone else. To not go out on the field with when you're physically able is abandoning your brothers IMO. And I believe most football players believe the same.

I would not draft a kid who would do this because it shows a weakness in character. That is my subjective opinion.
You sound like the fake holy folks in the old NFL and AFL who said similar things about players who opted to go to the defunct USFL. Then tried to lure those players and once the USFL folded, snapped up the very players they had demonized. Typical game plan by fake conservative Bible thumpers. Give 'em bag of tacos, pat 'em on the head, tell 'em you're sorry the injury takes away their future. But that you appreciate their service then get rid of them. Yep, nice strategy.
 

TheDeeble

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Colleges already can foot the bill for insurance. It's been in practice.

But the insurance payouts aren't guaranteed, and they probably won't actually match the money that player would have gotten had he not been injured. Jaylon Smith lost out on millions when he was injured in a bowl game before going to the NFL. He had the loss of value insurance. He finally got paid 700k after all was said and done. And he may owe that 700k back depending on what his next contract will be.

IMO, it's not worth the risk if you really want to protect your value.

Jaylon Smith's insurance payout could lead to more players skipping bowl games

The relatively new loss of value policy protects a player if his draft stock plummets due to injury. Smith tore his ACL and MCL and suffered nerve damage in the 2016 Fiesta Bowl against Ohio State.
The devastating injury probably cost him millions due to a first-round projection. Some projected his first contract would be worth $20 million.

Smith was the third player taken in the second round -- No. 34 overall -- by the Dallas Cowboys in the 2016 draft. In December, he was put on season-ending injured reserve, missing his first NFL season.
Smith’s insurance policy states if he did not receive an NFL offer that was at least $7.2 million for four years, he would be covered for loss of draft value. His current contract with the Cowboys is for four years, $6.495 million.
The difference equals his $705,000 payout.
But a clause in the policy states Smith must pay back that amount if his total compensation exceeds $7.2 million. That could easily happen when and if Smith gets to his second contract.
 

Lawrence Wright

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Meaningless to whom? Every time my team was on the field it meant something to me. You're playing for your teammates as much or more than anyone else. To not go out on the field with when you're physically able is abandoning your brothers IMO. And I believe most football players believe the same.

I would not draft a kid who would do this because it shows a weakness in character. That is my subjective opinion.
If you chose not to draft Will Grier or the Bosa kid from Ohio State because they sat out the season or a meaningless bowl game, you wouldn't be employed as a GM for very long.

The opportunity to earn millions outweighs the opportunity to win another TaxSlayer Bowl against Iowa or Northwestern.

The amount of hardliners here is disturbing to say the least.
 
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jakez4ut

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If you chose not to draft Will Grier or the Bosa kid from Ohio State because they sat out the season or a meaningless bowl game, you wouldn't be employed as a GM for very long.

The opportunity to earn millions outweighs the opportunity to win another TaxSlayer Bowl against Iowa or Northwestern.

The amount of hardliners here is disturbing to say the least.
i think the heartburn is the fact that why is it these kids that have the need to do it? we've had nearly a 100 years of bowl games, and until the last 20 years, virtually every bowl game save a very select few in a selecte few years have been meaningless, yet the teams showed up and everyone eligible to do so played in the game.
so what makes this different?

well, the play off makes it different. i think what we're now finding out is that there have been an lot of unintended consquences since going to this format.

in how this post season is now set up, there really is ZERO point to playing any of the games aside from the 4 play off games, except for someone to make some money.

going to a bowl is no longer a reward for hte team and fan base, it's a burden if it it's not a play off game. hell, you got teams not even caring about going to Sugar Bowls anymore.

Fan bases aren't travelling to bowl games like they used to. TV ratings aren't what they used to be. they'll be giving away tickets to the National championshp game before it's all over this week lol.

as a fan, i want my team to show up and care about every game they have an opportunity to play in.

but that's not reality anymore. you go to a music city bowl and you have a stacked roster with potential day 1 picks, they're going to sit, and your team could lose to 2nd tier ACC/Big 10 team, and you jsut have to to deal with it.

win your division, win your conference and go to the playoffs.

otherwise, no one gives a s**t. and that sucks. but it is what it is.
 

TheDeeble

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in how this post season is now set up, there really is ZERO point to playing any of the games aside from the 4 play off games, except for someone to make some money.
There was no point to playing in bowl games before this format during the BCS format or the AP/Coaches Poll vote format. BCS put the top 2 teams in the BCS poll. Everyone else excluded. AP/Coaches- If you weren't ranked in the top 3/4 and playing a similarly ranked opponent then it was a postseason game for teams with winning records, but it meant nothing. No more than it does today.

Holiday Bowl? Gator Bowl? Peach Bowl? Liberty Bowl? Did any of them really matter? What changed between now and then?
 

jakez4ut

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of all the bowl games this year, there were two blue blood fan bases that i'd say were "excited" to be their respective games.

Florida and TX. two programs that have been down, and got in to "big" games against "name" programs, and saw those games as opportunities.

fan bases both showed up and, i believe both had everyone that could play, they played for Florida and TX. Michigan and GA however, both had multiple players sit out for hte draft, both looked disinterested coming off conf title game losses and missing the playoff.

would have been better to have Michigan and GA play each other and TX and FL play each other.

anway, as a fan of a program that would like to get in to a post season game of any kind, i think we have a window of a few years where we can get excited about going to a NYD or NY6 game. but make no mistake, no one outside this fan base would care.

and if we went to a couple of those types of games consecutively, it wouldn't be long before we wouldn't care about going to Orlando for a bowl game either.
 

jakez4ut

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There was no point to playing in bowl games before this format during the BCS format or the AP/Coaches Poll vote format. BCS put the top 2 teams in the BCS poll. Everyone else excluded. AP/Coaches- If you weren't ranked in the top 3/4 and playing a similarly ranked opponent then it was a postseason game for teams with winning records, but it meant nothing. No more than it does today.

Holiday Bowl? Gator Bowl? Peach Bowl? Liberty Bowl? Did any of them really matter? What changed between now and then?
no, they didn't, and i said as much in my post.

we've had nearly a 100 years of bowl games, and until the last 20 years, virtually every bowl game save a very select few in a selecte few years have been meaningless,
 

Lawrence Wright

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i think the heartburn is the fact that why is it these kids that have the need to do it? we've had nearly a 100 years of bowl games, and until the last 20 years, virtually every bowl game save a very select few in a selecte few years have been meaningless, yet the teams showed up and everyone eligible to do so played in the game.
so what makes this different?

well, the play off makes it different. i think what we're now finding out is that there have been an lot of unintended consquences since going to this format.

in how this post season is now set up, there really is ZERO point to playing any of the games aside from the 4 play off games, except for someone to make some money.

going to a bowl is no longer a reward for hte team and fan base, it's a burden if it it's not a play off game. hell, you got teams not even caring about going to Sugar Bowls anymore.

Fan bases aren't travelling to bowl games like they used to. TV ratings aren't what they used to be. they'll be giving away tickets to the National championshp game before it's all over this week lol.

as a fan, i want my team to show up and care about every game they have an opportunity to play in.

but that's not reality anymore. you go to a music city bowl and you have a stacked roster with potential day 1 picks, they're going to sit, and your team could lose to 2nd tier ACC/Big 10 team, and you jsut have to to deal with it.

win your division, win your conference and go to the playoffs.

otherwise, no one gives a s**t. and that sucks. but it is what it is.
Like you just stated, outside of the 1 vs 2 BCS title game, the other bowls didn’t matter.

Before the BCS, there may have been at best three bowls that factored into the national title conversation.

This is all about entitled fans who don’t want players to look out for their future, when there’s little to be gained by playing in meaningless bowl games.
 

jakez4ut

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Like you just stated, outside of the 1 vs 2 BCS title game, the other bowls didn’t matter.

Before the BCS, there may have been at best three bowls that factored into the national title conversation.

This is all about entitled fans who don’t want players to look out for their future, when there’s little to be gained by playing in meaningless bowl games.
i absolutely hate the way that sounds.

but it's 100% correct. and when/if we cross that bridge, i'm sure i won't like it. but at least i'll know why lol.

as for the teammate aspect, i think that's probably an interesting dynamic that will be something new for coaching staffs to manage. i'm sure there's going to be teammates that will see their side of it and agree with the player for sitting out, cause if the ones playing had the option, they would probably act similarly. and there will be other teammates that will think the exact opposite and think he's being let down by the guy sitting out. will totally depend on their individual perceptions of each different situation.
 

Lawrence Wright

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i absolutely hate the way that sounds.

but it's 100% correct. and when/if we cross that bridge, i'm sure i won't like it. but at least i'll know why lol.

as for the teammate aspect, i think that's probably an interesting dynamic that will be something new for coaching staffs to manage. i'm sure there's going to be teammates that will see their side of it and agree with the player for sitting out, cause if the ones playing had the option, they would probably act similarly. and there will be other teammates that will think the exact opposite and think he's being let down by the guy sitting out. will totally depend on their individual perceptions of each different situation.
Just being honest Jake. As a rabid CFB fan I wrestled with my own feelings about this, then came to the conclusion that I’m in no position as a fan to tell a college kid the best way to protect his future.
 

jakez4ut

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Just being honest Jake. As a rabid CFB fan I wrestled with my own feelings about this, then came to the conclusion that I’m in no position as a fan to tell a college kid the best way to protect his future.
no, i agree, and i get it. i just still have this childhood image of what College football was. and that conflicts with what it really is today.

i have no delusions of grandeur in that regard. i don't have to be happy about it though. lol.

i'll put it this way, in the end, i think it's probably better to have that problem than not. and currentely, we don't have this problem....which is way worse.
 
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You sound like the fake holy folks in the old NFL and AFL who said similar things about players who opted to go to the defunct USFL. Then tried to lure those players and once the USFL folded, snapped up the very players they had demonized. Typical game plan by fake conservative Bible thumpers. Give 'em bag of tacos, pat 'em on the head, tell 'em you're sorry the injury takes away their future. But that you appreciate their service then get rid of them. Yep, nice strategy.
You sound like someone who has never played the game.
 

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