If we are going to face facts, we need to admit that

#127
#127
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Kirby
Day
Cignetti
Lanning
Dabo

I think all those guys have solid arguments to be better than Heupel. Then there are probably 10-15 guys who are about the same caliber as Heupel (Freeman, Franklin, Kelly, Kiffin, Sark, DeBoer, Riley to name a few).
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Cignetti? How so?

and Dabo is no where near Heupel's level these days....Lanning is even a reach

and you go on to name 7 guys who are "on the same level" as Heupel who really haven't won much of anything either

Basically you have Kirby and Day as championship coaches, and what Dabo used to be
 
#128
#128
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Part of the reason why he isn’t a championship coach is stubborn loyalty to underperforming or straight up bad staff members.
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That is a fair critique but that isn’t unique to Heupel. Banks should perform better at his job and I think Heupel should hold him to a higher standard. The guy is just in over his head
 
#130
#130
landscapingvol said:
That is a fair critique but that isn’t unique to Heupel. Banks should perform better at his job and I think Heupel should hold him to a higher standard. The guy is just in over his head
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Not being a championship coach is not unique, most coaches aren’t. Agree that Heup should expect more from DC. Just on the first drive alone, on the first third down they are throwing to the sticks. We have guys drifting back in zone 3 yards beyond the line to gain. Makes zero sense to not have those guys playing the sticks on third down. Just stupid
 
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#131
#131
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Not being a championship coach is not unique, most coaches aren’t. Agree that Heup should expect more from DC. Just on the first drive alone, on the first third down they are throwing to the sticks. We have guys drifting back in zone 3 yards beyond the line to gain. Makes zero sense to not have those guys playing the sticks on third down. Just stupid
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The fact that Banks and Martinez cannot get the secondary to align properly for a zone defense is abysmal. Every high school team in the country fields a zone defense, Tennessee’s secondary looks like they have never played a zone defense in their life.
 
#132
#132
vavolfan6 said:
I wouldn't dispel the thought that he is a championship level coach. We are finally above the 50% blue chip ratio which has historically been the defining charachteristic of national championship level teams. The percentage of blue chip players is still growing to. Right now we are in the 50s and hope to be eventually in the 70s.

Also, I've seen Heupel develop as both a playcaller and in his in-game philosophy. He still needs to clean up the details and I don't care for the conservative approach he implements at times. But I'm.akso of the belief he is actively fine tuning himself and that he could be a championship coach.
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This is my take. I don't like his conservative playcalling late in tight games but I've watched him change and evolve when he needs too. As long as he continues to do that I believe he will get us to the promised land.
 
#133
#133
Rickyvol77 said:
Cignetti? How so?

and Dabo is no where near Heupel's level these days....Lanning is even a reach

and you go on to name 7 guys who are "on the same level" as Heupel who really haven't won much of anything either

Basically you have Kirby and Day as championship coaches, and what Dabo used to be
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Yeah those are the guys who have won championships. But like I said you would, you just dismiss anyone and everyone I say.

Cignetti has lost two games in a year and a half at Indiana, one of the all time football doormats. He already has a better road win than Heupel has ever had. You’d be going crazy for him if he were a Tennessee coach. Lanning is 40-7 as a coach, that’s an elite record. most coaches who start out like that win a championship at some point.

Then you have about 10 guys who haven’t won a championship and probably never will, but you could make an argument that they are a top 10 coach, just like Heupel.
 
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#134
#134
I completely disagree. CJH is NC winning material. He doesn't have the staff supporting him to get there. It's the defense that is holding us back. Our offense speaks for itself. People think that a NC is just about going out there and winning it. Saban made everyone feel like it isn't that hard. Everything has to go right for your team and get help by bad breaks among the other teams.
 
#135
#135
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Yeah those are the guys who have won championships. But like I said you would, you just dismiss anyone and everyone I say.

Cignetti has lost two games in a year and a half at Indiana, one of the all time football doormats. He already has a better road win than Heupel has ever had. You’d be going crazy for him if he were a Tennessee coach. Lanning is 40-7 as a coach, that’s an elite record. most coaches who start out like that win a championship at some point.

Then you have about 10 guys who haven’t won a championship and probably never will, but you could make an argument that they are a top 10 coach, just like Heupel.
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what championship has Cignetti won?
He is 0-10 in postseason games with a playoff or bowl win on the line, and he has beaten TWO ranked teams EVER (one of those being an Illinois team that won't even be ranked at the end of year)

And while he has done well for Indiana for sure, he has had THIS schedule (and dropped 3 P4 teams and replaced them with FCS teams)

Florida International (4-8)
Western Illinois (FCS)
at UCLA (5-7)
Charlotte (5-7)
Maryland (4-8)
at Northwestern (4-8)
Nebraska (7-6)
Washington (6-7)
at Michigan St (5-7)
Michigan (8-5)
at Ohio St (14-2)
Purdue (1-11)
Notre Dame (14-2)

Old Dominion (4-2)
Kennesaw St (4-2)
Indiana St (FCS)
Illinois (5-2)
at Iowa (4-1)
at Oregon (5-1)

I am sure Heupel would love to have a schedule where you don't play a good or RANKED team until the 3rd week of November. I would put Heupel's ten best wins as HC up against him any day of the week

Lanning is 1-3 vs Washington and that W/L record is coming down a bit, but i think he could be a great coach but again an elite one? after losing at home to Indiana where his offense couldn't even get going? and also had tons of penalties and as you know that's on the coach right? Let's wait and see
 
#136
#136
Rickyvol77 said:
what championship has Cignetti won?
He is 0-10 in postseason games with a playoff or bowl win on the line, and he has beaten TWO ranked teams EVER (one of those being an Illinois team that won't even be ranked at the end of year)

And while he has done well for Indiana for sure, he has had THIS schedule (and dropped 3 P4 teams and replaced them with FCS teams)

Florida International (4-8)
Western Illinois (FCS)
at UCLA (5-7)
Charlotte (5-7)
Maryland (4-8)
at Northwestern (4-8)
Nebraska (7-6)
Washington (6-7)
at Michigan St (5-7)
Michigan (8-5)
at Ohio St (14-2)
Purdue (1-11)
Notre Dame (14-2)

Old Dominion (4-2)
Kennesaw St (4-2)
Indiana St (FCS)
Illinois (5-2)
at Iowa (4-1)
at Oregon (5-1)

I am sure Heupel would love to have a schedule where you don't play a good or RANKED team until the 3rd week of November. I would put Heupel's ten best wins as HC up against him any day of the week

Lanning is 1-3 vs Washington and that W/L record is coming down a bit, but i think he could be a great coach but again an elite one? after losing at home to Indiana where his offense couldn't even get going? and also had tons of penalties and as you know that's on the coach right? Let's wait and see
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Indiana has had an easy schedule every year for decades and never looked like this. They hung 70 on Illinois and snapped the nation’s longest home winning streak in Eugene. He is doing unprecedented things there.

As for Lanning, there is no shame in losing to that Indiana team. Heupel has worse losses every year.
 
#137
#137
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Heupel is not a championship coach. He’s much better than anyone we have had since Kiffin and deserves respect and job security for what he has done so far. Let’s do the damned thing
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Nobody knew Kirby Smart was a championship coach. Until he was. Let’s be real did anyone seriously think Orgeron was a championship coach? Nobody thought Harbaugh was a championship coach.

The point is Heupel could absolutely win a championship here. Saying otherwise is beyond dumb
 
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#139
#139
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Indiana has had an easy schedule every year for decades and never looked like this. They hung 70 on Illinois and snapped the nation’s longest home winning streak in Eugene. He is doing unprecedented things there.

As for Lanning, there is no shame in losing to that Indiana team. Heupel has worse losses every year.
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Their schedule has never been easier than under Cignetti, who specifically has paid off Louisville and UVA to avoid playing any P4 OOC teams and has done so for FIVE YEARS.

But even then, acting like Heupel couldn't navigate a schedule where you don't even play a ranked team until game 11 is silly.

And you didn't address the comment that Cignetti (Mr. Championship caliber) has NO titles and is 0-10 in postseason play....that's an awful record for someone so "clutch"

Heupel has beaten more ranked teams just at UT than Cignetti ever will in 15 years of coaching
 
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#142
#142
landscapingvol said:
That is just dumb, Heupel is a great coach but Banks needs to go and Martinez needs to go. The defense is a major liability that is affecting the offense. It’s the main reason we can’t take risks on fourth down and it’s the main reason the offense has had to change its tempo. The defense simply cannot get off the field remotely consistently and looks absolutely lost much of the time. Banks doesn’t run a complicated scheme and he doesn’t run a fundamentally sound scheme. A guy who wasn’t even running a defense fielded a defense in two weeks at Arkansas that performed as well, possibly even better, than a coordinator who has spent five seasons building and developing players
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Who is responsible for retaining the defensive coaches?.....Who does the buck stop with?
 
#145
#145
Rickyvol77 said:
Their schedule has never been easier than under Cignetti, who specifically has paid off Louisville and UVA to avoid playing any P4 OOC teams and has done so for FIVE YEARS.

But even then, acting like Heupel couldn't navigate a schedule where you don't even play a ranked team until game 11 is silly.

And you didn't address the comment that Cignetti (Mr. Championship caliber) has NO titles and is 0-10 in postseason play....that's an awful record for someone so "clutch"

Heupel has beaten more ranked teams just at UT than Cignetti ever will in 15 years of coaching
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I didn’t address him going 0-10 in postseason play because he isn’t 0-10 in postseason play. He is 10-9 in the postseason. He has won his conference a bunch of times and is currently 136-37 in his career as a coach. That’s fairly decent.
 
#150
#150
I think Josh will win a championship. One thing we need is more good player depth. I think we have to have a roster like UGA, Bama and OSU to win a championship.
 
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