If Butch loses against Nebraska...

[volfannbama]

My bad I thought you were saying that. I was just clarifying your post.

No wins are a gimme when a team is struggling to find their identity.

I was saying that. I was just able to give a pass because of the good he has done. The Vandy game was my tipping point. I think its fair that he gets another year due to what he has done, but I think he underachieves next year and the year after and on and on. He does alot of.things good, he is just not a good coach.

As for the bowl, im pumped for the game only because its Tennessee football and I get to watch Dobbs, Kamara.and Barnett play again. But unless I get some cheap tickets for Christmas from mu wife, im not going. Not because of some boycott nonsense but because im heading to Disney the following week to run the marathon and hit some other places with my kids. Hopefully, its not flooded with Alabama fans.
But I had already discussed with my wife, had we gone to the Sugar Bowl, we would have spent whatever it took to go.

 

[BeardedVol]

When the truth is on your side don't exaggerate. Why say the kid was as green as a QB could be when he wasn't?

Why day there is absolutely no reason to think we can get better when there are some reasons?

I'm looking to the bowl and next year, not trying to justify bad losses.

What I'm used to seeing is exaggeration to make a point, but when the truth makes the point, no need to exaggerate.

We have a lot going for us next year, no need to throw it out before this year is finished.

Go Vols!

So if a QB who has had one game in the SEC, and one week of 1st team rps isn't green, what would you consider green?

You can try to justify that loss for yourself all day long, I'm sure you'll be defending this staff right up till when they are fired next year as well. I've just embraced the fact that CBJ is on his way out at this point; it's just a matter of when.

 

[nebraskavolunteer]

The last 22 years I have received my mail in Nebraska. Although I was born and raised in Tennessee. Tennessee is where my heart is. My blood is orange and I don't wont it spilled this year. I lived through the Nebraska games of the late 90's, I hurt, and I don't want to go through that again. We owe these guys a butt kicking. If we loose,
I'm still all in for CBJ and I give him one more year. I think Tennessee wins 45-20. Please God make it so.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I was saying that. I was just able to give a pass because of the good he has done. The Vandy game was my tipping point. I think its fair that he gets another year due to what he has done, but I think he underachieves next year and the year after and on and on. He does alot of.things good, he is just not a good coach.

As for the bowl, im pumped for the game only because its Tennessee football and I get to watch Dobbs, Kamara.and Barnett play again. But unless I get some cheap tickets for Christmas from mu wife, im not going. Not because of some boycott nonsense but because im heading to Disney the following week to run the marathon and hit some other places with my kids. Hopefully, its not flooded with Alabama fans.
But I had already discussed with my wife, had we gone to the Sugar Bowl, we would have spent whatever it took to go.

I'm with you, he has done enough to stay, but he has also done enough to need to leave. I believe the timing is bad for a change a HC. Would the next one think he would get a fair shot or be sent home early when adversity hits.

As for next year, I'm not ready to say he can't make some more changes and get better where we need to and get back to being better in areas that slipped(turnovers and penalties). I'm not to the point that he is wasting our time.

Get it together Butch!

Beat Nebraska and take their lunch money!

 

[Iam4utalways]

So if a QB who has had one game in the SEC, and one week of 1st team rps isn't green, what would you consider green?

You can try to justify that loss for yourself all day long, I'm sure you'll be defending this staff right up till when they are fired next year as well. I've just embraced the fact that CBJ is on his way out at this point; it's just a matter of when.

Are you kidding me? He is a freshman. That means he is green. Why exaggerate and say he was as green as green can be. He had a game under his belt and the game was late in the year. An earlier game in the season or not his 1st game would make him greener(more green). The truth is he was green, so why exaggerate? When the truth supports your view it's not necessary to exaggerate. Justify a loss by not exaggerating the truth? There is not justification for the SC loss, plenty of obvious reasons for it, the one that I can't get past is the -3 turnover stat. in a close game to be -3 on turnovers we should expect to lose and we did. Fix that and it wouldn't have been close(same goes for A&M).

As for the different shades of green he wasn't the greenest.

Beat Nebraska!

 

[Tidal Surge]

If Jones isn't going anywhere any time soon.... regardless of performance which is what the post I responded to seemed to leave open.... then that's not "progress" leading to anything but mediocrity.

I'm not sure what tolerance level some is supposed to have.... but I think 4 straight years of leaving at least 1 win on the field with only 1 real upset win... is about as patient as we need to be. In fact, the last two years in that respect have been worse than the first two.

Before Vandy, several people argued with me that this season represented "progress" because UT was going to have 9 wins and probably land in the Sugar Bowl. Those folks have disappeared. Now apparently there's a different standard for "progress".

I think Jones has done a good job managing the program off the field. I think he's been better than expected in recruiting. His S&C program has been a ridiculous failure. His game week and game day coaching leaves a LOT to be desired.

Sincere question, do you see ANY progress at all in those two things over his 4 years at UT? Do you think he can ever be better than mediocre unless he gets significantly better at those things?

PS- I for one don't care how corny he is or whether he likes the media or not. I just want to see him run a good program and WIN.... without having to wait another 4-6 years to determine whether he can or not.

Butch has made some good progress at bringing the program back, but he's made some costly mistakes too. Acording to this analysis --

https://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2016/JUNE16/DBJune28.html

-- The Vols' 2016 roster was the 3rd most experienced nationally and 1st in the SEC. The expectations for this season were justifiable. Programs can be turned around in four years -- evidence: McIntyre at Colorado.

Butch has said he's going to evaluate everything and make changes needed to fix the problems. He better make good on that, because the competitors the Vols will face in 2017 are all working on improving their programs too.

 

[volfan102455]

Butch has made some good progress at bringing the program back, but he's made some costly mistakes too. Acording to this analysis --

https://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2016/JUNE16/DBJune28.html

-- The Vols' 2016 roster was the 3rd most experienced nationally and 1st in the SEC. The expectations for this season were justifiable. Programs can be turned around in four years -- evidence: McIntyre at Colorado.

Butch has said he's going to evaluate everything and make changes needed to fix the problems. He better make good on that, because the competitors the Vols will face in 2017 are all working on improving their programs too.

Didn't help that the a lot of the experience was sitting on the bench hurt. I am not making excuses - just putting reality into the mix.

You have to look at the makeup of the team as the year progresses - you can't say - team A was loaded at the start and fail to notice that team A was a shell of itself towards the middle to end of the season.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Didn't help that the a lot of the experience was sitting on the bench hurt.

S&C program, depth -- it ALL falls on the HC. Vols still should have beaten SC and Vandy.

Florida had a lot of injuries to key players on their defense and o-line too, but their backups stepped up and they beat a very talented LSU team on the road.

Like I said, Butch needs to make some changes and better. The SEC East and Sugar Bowl were there for the taking.

Butch really needs to regain some momentum. Beating Nebraska is very important. It could help him close out this recuiting cycle better and start the offeason on a positive note.

 

[volfan102455]

S&C program, depth -- it ALL falls on the HC. Vols still should have beaten SC and Vandy.

Florida had a lot of injuries to key players on their defense and o-line too, but their backups stepped up and they beat a very talented LSU team on the road.

Like I said, Butch needs to make some changes and better. The SEC East and Sugar Bowl were there for the taking.

Butch really needs to regain some momentum. Beating Nebraska is very important.

Agree on S&C.

LSU beat LSU - Florida didn't beat them.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Agree on S&C.

LSU beat LSU - Florida didn't beat them.

Did UT beat UT vs SC & Vandy?

 

[Boca Vol]

An 8-4 season last year could be argued as "progress"... though not by me because of Ark, UF, and possibly OU. This year.... it represents regression if anything. A team very capable of winning the East... lost to the two least talented teams in the SEC. That's simply not "progress".

Good points. Not all 8-4 seasons are created equal. Last year's 8-4 is a lot better than this season's 8-4.

I'm really interested to see what happens next year. I get the feeling Butch tried to let the upper classmen have more control over the team and it didn't work out too well.

Next season there is talent on the field, albeit young in areas. Can they coach to their strengths and compete for the SEC E? That will tell me if there is hope for Butch at UT.

 

[volfannbama]

Did UT beat UT vs SC & Vandy?

Nope, Vandy beat UT and if they could tackle in the first half they would have won by 30

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Would he get to start at year 0?

Nope. He is a super great college coach who is a proven winner and is a home run hire according to some. So no, he should be able to walk right in and win 10-11 games just like Harbaugh right?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Nope, Vandy beat UT and if they could tackle in the first half they would have won by 30

So they didnt know how to tackle in the first half but figured out how to in the second? Yeah ok. No they would not have won by 30.

 

[butchna]

Good points. Not all 8-4 seasons are created equal. Last year's 8-4 is a lot better than this season's 8-4.

I'm really interested to see what happens next year. I get the feeling Butch tried to let the upper classmen have more control over the team and it didn't work out too well.

Next season there is talent on the field, albeit young in areas. Can they coach to their strengths and compete for the SEC E? That will tell me if there is hope for Butch at UT.

How is 8-4 with an agonizing last second loss to Florida BETTER than 8-4 with the nutpunching loss to Vandy? It's a right here right now world on VN. Last year's retrospective on this board was that Butch would never beat Florida...guaranteed. Saw posts willing to trade a loss to Vandy for a Florida win. And if there had been a poll, I bet the majority would have made that trade. Both seasons had disappointments and elements of failure. This one is just top of mind.

 

[butchna]

Nope. He is a super great college coach who is a proven winner and is a home run hire according to some. So no, he should be able to walk right in and win 10-11 games just like Harbaugh right?

Link?

 

[Boca Vol]

How is 8-4 with an agonizing last second loss to Florida BETTER than 8-4 with the nutpunching loss to Vandy? It's a right here right now world on VN. Last year's retrospective on this board was that Butch would never beat Florida...guaranteed. Saw posts willing to trade a loss to Vandy for a Florida win. And if there had been a poll, I bet the majority would have made that trade. Both seasons had disappointments and elements of failure. This one is just top of mind.

Well, in '14 UT was beaten rather easily against OU & Bama. UF & UGA were close. In '15, you could see it coming together even though they let those 4 losses slip through their hands.

2016 was the year! Everything Butch had built was for this season. Even though the records were the same there was clearly more optimism around the program after last season than there is right now, agree?

 

[Boca Vol]

Nope. He is a super great college coach who is a proven winner and is a home run hire according to some. So no, he should be able to walk right in and win 10-11 games just like Harbaugh right?

That's one of the built-in perks for an incoming coach. All they have to say is they need to recruit the type of players to fit "his system." The media & fans buy it every time.

If a coach comes in and wins immediately he hopes to keep the train rolling. If the team stumbles he gets to fall back on the "recruiting for his system" angle.

 

[butchna]

Well, in '14 UT was beaten rather easily against OU & Bama. UF & UGA were close. In '15, you could see it coming together even though they let those 4 losses slip through their hands.

2016 was the year! Everything Butch had built was for this season. Even though the records were the same there was clearly more optimism around the program after last season than there is right now, agree?

Did you take a few months break? Found out Butch couldn't coach last year. Only difference is we had a winning streak at the end. If we had beat Florida last season but lost to Vandy, would there be a difference if we had done the opposite THIS season?

 

[sjt18]

Didn't help that the a lot of the experience was sitting on the bench hurt. I am not making excuses - just putting reality into the mix.

You have to look at the makeup of the team as the year progresses - you can't say - team A was loaded at the start and fail to notice that team A was a shell of itself towards the middle to end of the season.

The reality is that UT has had higher than normal injury rates for the last 3 years.... not just one. Jones didn't correct it. He apparently didn't even recognize it but rather tried to brush it off as "luck" or whatever.

This year he did seem to try to take some of the edge off of August camp to prevent injuries... but went too far by allowing guys like Hurd to basically take days off for "health".

His response to the opportunity to change directions when Lawson got in trouble was to promote Lawson's understudy and "stay the course".

Jones is responsible for all of this. He should get NO PASS when it doesn't work. He very much appears to be a mid-major coach trying to do it "his way" in the SEC.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Will he officially be on the 2017 Coaches Hot Seat and lose most of the fanbase? I feel like he's under pressure already but if he screws around and loses to an average Nebraska team, that might just seal Butch's fate unless he just surprises everyone and has a great 2017-2018 season. Who knows, maybe with JG as our QB or some better coordinators, we might be looking at 9 wins the most next year which still isn't good enough. With the new A.D. getting put together whether it's Blackburn or whoever it is, we could easily be looking for another HC next year. Obviously I don't want Tennessee to lose but Butch has a tendency to lose to teams that he should win against. Vandy, South Carolina...

Butch could set a school bus full of children on fire and he will still be our head coach for 2 more years.

 

[sjt18]

Good points. Not all 8-4 seasons are created equal. Last year's 8-4 is a lot better than this season's 8-4.

I'm really interested to see what happens next year. I get the feeling Butch tried to let the upper classmen have more control over the team and it didn't work out too well.

Next season there is talent on the field, albeit young in areas. Can they coach to their strengths and compete for the SEC E? That will tell me if there is hope for Butch at UT.

Dobbs has covered up much of the OL shortcoming with his mobility. If Jones doesn't seriously change his offensive philosophy.... it won't be good.

The D simply does not appear to have the talent in each group to be very good. Five recruiting classes.... thin at LB and CB.

IMHO, he missed his window of opportunity. I'll be happy to be wrong but the East was there for the taking last year and this year. He failed to get it done and primarily because of failures that lead directly back to him.

 

[sjt18]

Butch could set a school bus full of children on fire and he will still be our head coach for 2 more years.

I honestly think that less than 8 regular season wins next year will be enough for the new AD to make a case for installing his own guy. The most critical hire of Jones' tenure could end up being the next S&C coach.

 

[tvolsfan]

I honestly think that less than 8 regular season wins next year will be enough for the new AD to make a case for installing his own guy. The most critical hire of Jones' tenure could end up being the next S&C coach.

No way Butch returns with less than 8 regular season wins next year. I personally don't think 8 will be enough.

 

[sjt18]

My bad I thought you were saying that. I was just clarifying your post.

No wins are a gimme when a team is struggling to find their identity.

No team "struggles to find its identity" for that long under a competent HC. Jones' identity stamp should have been very apparent by year 2 and certainly by year 4.

And yes, Jones has underachieved in each of his 4 years at UT.