If Butch Can't...

[utvols74]

Butch may be the guy, but just like Fulmer, his OC is causing him problems. Good coaches know when to say "when" and find a qualified replacement. Not saying B-jack needs replacing now, but at season's end......if we see more of last Saturday....then yes; he needs to go.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

One of the more intelligent and reasonable post-game posts. And from a 22 year old. Impressive.

Couldn't agree more. What the hell is it doing on this forum?:dance2:

 

[slayer76]

How many games would we win if the players had the same attitude as our so called fans? I'm just as mad as everyone else , but it's time to move on and support this team. If your a realist you would know that you can't wave a wand and make it 1998 in year two of jones.each situation is different , to build a program proper, it may take longer than we want.give the guy time and stop the negative attacks.i want to win bad,but I'm sensible enough to know our problems,and gonna give this staff a fair and fighting chance.

 

[driscokid]

Butch may be the guy, but just like Fulmer, his OC is causing him problems. Good coaches know when to say "when" and find a qualified replacement. Not saying B-jack needs replacing now, but at season's end......if we see more of last Saturday....then yes; he needs to go.

Everybody said the same thing about Cutcliffe every year...couldn't beat Spurrier enough..blah blah blah. And that was when we were good! Win 10 and lose 2 - coordinator needs to go. Suck and lose a game - coordinator needs to go..pretty stupid really

 

[Chilmonty]

I think I will post this in every thread till people start to get it!

1. Butch and staff have only been here 1.5 years.

2. Kiffins one class is generally regarded as one of worst ever, did other new coaches have that mattress fire to deal with??

3. And that was sandwiched in between Fulmers average class and DD's very average to below average classes! Not to mention that DD apparently alienated everyone he had contact with!

4. And Oh Yeah, Butch was the 4th coach and staff in five years?

NO other new coach has had this "perfect storm" to deal with, and a year and half is no where near fast enough??




.

 

[macrovol]

Excellent post OP. 100% agreement here.

 

[KnoxSkiVol]

Thanks OP...even though I'm still hurt after this loss, this brings things back into perspective. I do think Butch is the right guy for the job and is doing the right things for our program. I just wish a few bricks would fall into place a little quicker.

 

[livefaith]

So you think practice is stupid?

Yep. The same "definition of insanity" types quote things like "Thomas Edison failed 10,000 times before successfully inventing the light bulb" to bolster the fact that when things get tough you never give up. And never see the inconsistency. lol:

 

[volboy81]

Yes, I'd say the jury is still out on Coach Jones "gameday coaching" skills, but any benefit of the doubt I had is now gone. A great coach doesn't lose a 9-0 lead with 8 mins left!

So happens that Spurrier & Saban both did pretty much just that this weekend!

 

[Orangedogsrule]

I have to disagree with .you.other coaches can,have,and will win here.I have yet to see anything other than press conferences and recruiting that makes me think he's the guy.The great coaches do more with less.The x's and 0's have done very little to prove anything. Give me the hunger and play calling of the Georgia game and we win by 14

Name the coaches WE COULD GET.

You say other coaches past current and future will win here.

Past .. that's in the record books.

Current .. Again, name them. Which "great coach" out there was knocking down the doors to get here? Which "great coach" wanted to leave the program where he has proved he is great to come put out our dumpster fire?

Will .. hmmm... future is to deal with when it gets here. Of course we all HOPE we never ever have to go through the last 5 years again.

If you can not SEE the difference in this team no one can explain it to you because you are totally focused on instantaneous gratification.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

Well a wise man once said that it's not all about the x's and o's but more about the jimmies and joes. Having good players is most of the battle. However, there are a few things I've observed that have me optimistic about his coaching ability. 1. We have the youngest team in the country, yet coming into the florida game, we were the least penalized team in the country. Same for 3rd down defensive conversions. I thought we were out of character a little bit with those two stats saturday, but I believe we'll get back to excelling in those areas.

2. I think overall player development has been very good. In year 2, guys like Worley, Jordan Williams, JRM, McNeil, Mike Williams and I'm sure there are more, but those guys look like totally different players. They are playing some good ball for us, and after last year I don't know that maybe 1 or 2 of those guys would have been considered huge contributors. Plus you factor in development of guys like AJ, Cam, and our receivers, and also the freshmen who have played, Butch has had them ready to play and they are doing very well for us.

3. Last but not least, and this one may be more subjective, but I like Butch's conservative approach. Much like Fulmer, Butch is not going to usually make a boneheaded in game decision that will leave you scratching your head as far as clock management goes. We're not going panic and go for it on 4th down when we don't have to and we're not going to be careless with the football a great deal. We're going to try to be in it in the fourth quarter, which we claim to be our best quarter because we believe we're superior in our conditioning, and win the game there. Fulmer won A LOT of ball games with that same philosophy. Yes, I do wish at times we would just go all Baylor on people and put up 70, and maybe one day when we have all the horses we will, but for now, I like Butch's way because he's giving us a chance in the 4th quarter. Could not say the same about the last coach.

As far as my remark about if he can't win here no one will... that is more of an indictment on the people who are already saying he's on the hot seat etc. That's ridiculous. The fact that we're competing like we have been has been amazing considering how many freshmen we're playing in significant roles and that we are starting everybody new on both lines and yet are 4 points from being 4-1 is not bad. People are quick to point out some of these coaches who came in and did wonders in year 2 at their respective schools. Well, not every success story is a quick fix. I guarantee you that nick saban could come in here and not do a better job than Butch has. It's not all about on field at UT. A lot of it, especially in a rebuilding job like ours is, is a lot of outside things like managing fan base and media, and I think a lot of people have started to take for granted his recruiting. The fact we are pulling in top 5 classes after 5-7, 7-6, 6-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7 is unfathomable. If he can't do it, it's because he wasn't given enough time. And if he's not given enough time, our fans are a bunch of buffoons. People expecting SEC championships in year 3... I mean I think we'll compete, but look at a program like miss st and south carolina, sure they're not the same caliber program as we are traditionally, but in years 5, 6, 7, you start to see the fruits of their labor, and they have become relevant. Perhaps South Carolina currently isn't a great example, but you get the gist.

Spot on.

He has this team playing at that level. But a couple of mental errors have cost us a couple of games. Pig's fumble out of the end zone against Georgia last year...Hurd's fumble of the hand off in the end zone this year against Georgia this year...pivotal points in the game and cost us both. Worley throwing the interception in the end zone Saturday....cost us a chance at minimum 3 more points...then the bad decision that turned into the last interception by Worley at the end of the game. As much as it sucks Butch had this team in these games to win them...when honestly no one gave them a chance to even be in them. A few costly mistakes is all it takes from being THE TEAM and being the team.

This notion of he is on the hot seat is insane. As much as ESPN hates us...I bet if you asked any of those "College Football Experts" if Butch should be in or on a hot seat they would laugh hysterically at you...and if they were drinking something at the time it probably fly out of their nose. It is absolutely nuts to say he is on the hot seat right now.

Butch is frustrated...just as much as VolNation and his team is...you could tell it from his press conference yesterday. His response to the O-line being 2 recruiting classes behind trying to build depth. And I remember lots of people on here including myself that thought that would come up to haunt us down the road...and here it is. But as for the Georgia and Florida games...he knows we should have won those games....but what happened is final now. Can't go back...got to move forward. Got to keep plugging away and figure out how to get these kids to seize the moment on the field...make those plays on offense to build the lead...close the deal. Butch's defense is night and day from last year and doing their part to close the deal...our offensive line is what is keeping us from closing it on the other side of the ball.

 

[hendersonvillevol]

Cbj is first class, he will get us back where we once was as every true vol knows but you vol doubters want it to be right now

 

[oregonvol]

If Butch Can't Win here, nobody can.

Look kids, this is a perfect example of jumping to conclusions despite a lack of evidence. We see this type of thing far more from the coach-worshippers than from any negavol (I'm still looking for all those posts demanding Butch be fired that all the coach-worshippers keep referencing).

Fact is plenty of coaches have won here. Several have won championships here. So far, Butch hasn't shown anything to lead anyone to logically conclude that he will do the same.

On another note - is there another active head coach in college football who has a losing, winless record against both Muschamp and Dooley?

 

[Vol_is_Lyfe18]

I think I will post this in every thread till people start to get it!

1. Butch and staff have only been here 1.5 years.

2. Kiffins one class is generally regarded as one of worst ever, did other new coaches have that mattress fire to deal with??

3. And that was sandwiched in between Fulmers average class and DD's very average to below average classes! Not to mention that DD apparently alienated everyone he had contact with!

4. And Oh Yeah, Butch was the 4th coach and staff in five years?

NO other new coach has had this "perfect storm" to deal with, and a year and half is no where near fast enough??




.

We get it, you have an opinion and must force it down the throats of others. You can stop copying and pasting this to every thread now.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

Look kids, this is a perfect example of jumping to conclusions despite a lack of evidence. We see this type of thing far more from the coach-worshippers than from any negavol (I'm still looking for all those posts demanding Butch be fired that all the coach-worshippers keep referencing).

Fact is plenty of coaches have won here. Several have won championships here. So far, Butch hasn't shown anything to lead anyone to logically conclude that he will do the same.

On another note - is there another active head coach in college football who has a losing, winless record against both Muschamp and Dooley?

Jones returned to Central Michigan as head coach in 2007. In his first year he posted an 8–5 overall record and a 7–1 conference record. Jones ended two streaks that had haunted his predecessors. On September 29, 2007, CMU beat Northern Illinois University, which was the first CMU victory over Northern Illinois going back to 1998. On November 6, 2007, CMU beat its chief rival, Western Michigan University, at its home field of Waldo Stadium for the first time since 1993. He guided CMU to the MAC title at Ford Field in Detroit against Miami (Ohio), and led the team to its second consecutive Motor City Bowl. He was only the ninth football coach in Mid-American Conference history to win the championship in his first season. In 2008, a 31–24 loss to Ball State on Nov. 19 derailed the Chippewas' MAC title hopes, but CMU earned a trip to a third consecutive Motor City Bowl. In 2009 he guided the Chippewas to their third MAC Championship in four years after an 8–0 MAC schedule, the first time in school history the Chippewas went undefeated in the MAC. CMU completed its run with a 20–10 win against Ohio in the MAC title game at Ford Field. He left CMU with a 27–13 overall record and 20–3 MAC record. He did not win a bowl game, though his team won the 2009 bowl game against Troy, 44–41.

On December 16, 2009, Jones was named head coach at the University of Cincinnati.[1] He replaced Brian Kelly, who left to become head coach at Notre Dame.[3] Jones had previously replaced Kelly at Central Michigan.

Jones has led the Bearcats to records of 4–8 in 2010 and 10–3 in 2011, including a Big East championship, a Liberty Bowl victory (31–24 over Vanderbilt), and he was named Big East Coach of the Year. Also in 2011, Cincinnati was the only program to win both its conference championship as well as the league's team academic award. He led the Bearcats to a 9–3 regular season record in 2012, leading them to the Belk Bowl in Charlotte to play against Duke University. Twenty days prior to the bowl game, on December 7, 2012, Jones announced to the team that he would be resigning to accept the job as head coach at the University of Tennessee, after declining offers from Colorado, Purdue, and others. He is required to pay $1.4 million to buy out his Cincinnati contract extension, signed on January 23, 2012, that went through the 2017 season.

He has won his conference title everywhere he has coached. To think he will not build this place in to a conference championship contender is stupid. He is a proven winner....NEOCON said yesterday results/numbers are what matters and he has that. Winners win...which is why you could here the frustration in his voice yesterday. He is bringing in the level of athletes we need to win the S.E.C. East Division to make it to the S.E.C. title game. If you can not see a difference from last year to this years play so far...is silly...especially on defense with a whole new starting D-line. The players on the field have got to close the deal...not turn the ball over in key moments Arian Foster style. Butch is not the problem.

 

[TBtheGBwiththeTD]

I'm sure Miss St. would be better off without Dan Mullen. Some jobs take time.

 

[oregonvol]

He has won his conference title everywhere he has coached. To think he will not build this place in to a conference championship contender is stupid.

Oh, okay. So I guess Bielema is even more likely to win conference championships, since he won them in a BCS conference, before he got to Arkansas, right?

 

[utvols74]

Everybody said the same thing about Cutcliffe every year...couldn't beat Spurrier enough..blah blah blah. And that was when we were good! Win 10 and lose 2 - coordinator needs to go. Suck and lose a game - coordinator needs to go..pretty stupid really

Pretty stupid in your opinion keyboard cowboy....

I never called for Cutcliffe's firing, in fact, I said Fulmer was doomed when he left for Ole Miss. An offense wasn't generally the problem with UT vs. UF....if was defense and "3rd and Chavis" which normally resulted in a first down for UF.

The offensive play calling has been predictable and non-functioning on many plays (and in games like UF). OC's should know their players strengths and weaknesses - especially those making 10x what you probably earn on an annual basis.

So how do you slow down Florida and give your line a chance?

1) Screen pass to RB after line blocks and releases (works with a TE as well)
2) Shallow crossing route to TE
3) Change the snap count (just a thought)
4) Stop with the 1-2 second RB off guard running play
5) Have your 6-3/230 lb freshman RB to "chip block" occasionally and then head for a passing lane

These are just a few from a football student and avid fan. The sad part is there are probably considerably more options not exercised and therefore not practiced.

 

[orangeluvr]

Win here, nobody can. Butch Jones is the real deal. I understand the irrationality of this board that comes from mainly high emotional investment to the team, but after calming down, if you seriously are questioning Butch as a coach, then you might want to root for another team.

He invests way more than even most other great coaches do. He "puts up" with the fan base and media and you can tell he is constantly trying to manage even outside things. I saw in the press conference where he even said he would have a session in the spring where he will seriously teach the media the difference in what's zone read and what's not since they along with a lot of the fan base don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

My point is Butch is a superstar coach in the making. Yes, there may be certain tweaks that need to be made, but overall, he's the guy, and I will support Butch to the bitter end because his recruiting is far superior to anything we've had in the last decade or more, and he's not even winning big yet, I love his coaching and in game management philosophies and overall, he is just extremely impressive in almost every aspect on and off the field. I see the development. I see the progress being made. I think we are an offensive line from being a ranked team and a dual threat quarterback (next year, dobbs) away from being able to fully do on offense everything that we want to do.

I know the loss at Florida hurts, but Butch isn't responsible for a decade of losses, this was his second, and he had it in the bag. Just a few costly mistakes from a young football team hurt us. No excuses, it is what it is. But I didn't see a scared team Saturday like I have seen most of the last decade. We aren't scared of anyone, just less experienced and deep than everyone. But we have to keep moving forward, and I know we'll get there. And all of this coming from a guy who did not like the Butch Jones hire at the time. He has proved me wrong. He's the guy. If he's not, no one is. Let him work, and don't think to compare other coaches' time frame of success with his. He's having to do a whole lot more than just come in and coach. He's having to clean up 5 years of suck and instill and teach a winning culture that's been lost. It's coming Volnation. I promise you that. Just hang in there. Oh, and I know, tl;dr

It's no secret, Vols fans are very passionate. Case in point checker boarded Neyland and comments on VN.

 

[champyvol]

Win here, nobody can. Butch Jones is the real deal. I understand the irrationality of this board that comes from mainly high emotional investment to the team, but after calming down, if you seriously are questioning Butch as a coach, then you might want to root for another team.

He invests way more than even most other great coaches do. He "puts up" with the fan base and media and you can tell he is constantly trying to manage even outside things. I saw in the press conference where he even said he would have a session in the spring where he will seriously teach the media the difference in what's zone read and what's not since they along with a lot of the fan base don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

My point is Butch is a superstar coach in the making. Yes, there may be certain tweaks that need to be made, but overall, he's the guy, and I will support Butch to the bitter end because his recruiting is far superior to anything we've had in the last decade or more, and he's not even winning big yet, I love his coaching and in game management philosophies and overall, he is just extremely impressive in almost every aspect on and off the field. I see the development. I see the progress being made. I think we are an offensive line from being a ranked team and a dual threat quarterback (next year, dobbs) away from being able to fully do on offense everything that we want to do.

I know the loss at Florida hurts, but Butch isn't responsible for a decade of losses, this was his second, and he had it in the bag. Just a few costly mistakes from a young football team hurt us. No excuses, it is what it is. But I didn't see a scared team Saturday like I have seen most of the last decade. We aren't scared of anyone, just less experienced and deep than everyone. But we have to keep moving forward, and I know we'll get there. And all of this coming from a guy who did not like the Butch Jones hire at the time. He has proved me wrong. He's the guy. If he's not, no one is. Let him work, and don't think to compare other coaches' time frame of success with his. He's having to do a whole lot more than just come in and coach. He's having to clean up 5 years of suck and instill and teach a winning culture that's been lost. It's coming Volnation. I promise you that. Just hang in there. Oh, and I know, tl;dr

I disagree with this. riding Kelly's coat tails up the coaching ranks does not make you a superstar. he has never coached in a major conference at a major school. his recruiting has been excellent, but his coaching continues to be poor as he learns on the job. I personally don't think he is a SEC coach. he has not shown it, maybe he can grow into the job, but I wouldn't bet on it. most people outside of volfans see this. analyst continue to say this. butch has to realize wins is what college football is all about. so far we have a lot of moral victories that is it. the talent seems to be better except QB and the oline, but the coaching staff seems to struggle with the game planning.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

Oh, okay. So I guess Bielema is even more likely to win conference championships, since he won them in a BCS conference, before he got to Arkansas, right?

He knows how to get it done and has proven he can....so why not. Some rebuilding jobs are harder and take longer than others. You "Instant Gratification" people are so quick to give up if the result you want doesn't happen in 5 minutes from trying...sometimes things take a lot of hard work and building...sometimes more than a season or 2. Arkansas and Tennessee both were decimated by their exHC's and their actions. Picking up the pieces and rebuilding more than just the players on the field demands a lot and a certain type of character from a HC. Butch and Bielema are rebuilding more than just a football team at both of their schools. It is like buying a failing business and overhauling everything from employees to the company's image to make a profit and restore faith in investors....doesn't happen in a month.

 

[FlyFishnVol]

A lot of good points, but remember, his pay covers multiple areas of performance. I don't see anything wrong with the direction of the defense. However, I am only going on the quotes of this staff. "We play to strengths of our players"....let that soak in a little, ok, now Gap Read, not a strength, because of our OL's youth. Zone read, not with JW, he does not have the moves or likes tucking and running. Wide Recievers, I see as a strength, however, they need >2.7 seconds to develop a these complicated routes, but JW is averaging getting his face planted in 2.5 seconds.....So, what are we to believe.......2014 is just a long practice sechedule for 2015? Sorry, I am not buying it, I think somone is so focus on running the offense like he wants, and IS NOT, playing to the strengths of the offense.........my opinion.......flame away!

GBO!

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

I disagree with this. riding Kelly's coat tails up the coaching ranks does not make you a superstar. he has never coached in a major conference at a major school. his recruiting has been excellent, but his coaching continues to be poor as he learns on the job. I personally don't think he is a SEC coach. he has not shown it, maybe he can grow into the job, but I wouldn't bet on it. most people outside of volfans see this. analyst continue to say this. butch has to realize wins is what college football is all about. so far we have a lot of moral victories that is it. the talent seems to be better except QB and the oline, but the coaching staff seems to struggle with the game planning.

Right...he beat Steve Spurrier w/Conner Shaw & J-Clowney led GameCock team not the one this season...has been one play/fumble 2 seasons in a row away from beating Mark Richt...and one INT in the endzone and one fumble in the redzone by the players on the field from beating Florida Saturday. At some point if he is coaching these kids to hang in these games that we shouldn't be...it falls on the players to make the plays to win it on the field too.

 

[VonVol]

I disagree with this. riding Kelly's coat tails up the coaching ranks does not make you a superstar. he has never coached in a major conference at a major school. his recruiting has been excellent, but his coaching continues to be poor as he learns on the job. I personally don't think he is a SEC coach. he has not shown it, maybe he can grow into the job, but I wouldn't bet on it. most people outside of volfans see this. analyst continue to say this. butch has to realize wins is what college football is all about. so far we have a lot of moral victories that is it. the talent seems to be better except QB and the oline, but the coaching staff seems to struggle with the game planning.

Who has said they don't think he is an SEC coach? I'm not arguing with you, I'd just like to see some examples.

 

[roddo518]

Yes, I'd say the jury is still out on Coach Jones "gameday coaching" skills, but any benefit of the doubt I had is now gone. A great coach doesn't lose a 9-0 lead with 8 mins left!

Bs. We were constantly put in position to have a player make a play. We continued not to make a big play when it mattered. A sack, a poor throw, a illegal procedure, dropped passes kept us constantly from continuing a drive. A coach can only put you in a position to make a play, which occurred over and over again. How many teams do you think can even be put in a position to win with a line that has allowed as many sacks as we have? How many teams can have their 2nd and third wr out with injury and still manage to be close in an sec game? Couple that with the fact that none of our rbs are completely healthy at this point. Worley has been beat down to the point where he is pressing and trying to force plays. Several analysts have said Worley has the toughest qb assignment in the nation. I agree. Those hits are taking their toll. Only our team would be excited to get an ol back that has a torn knee ligament. You can't always blame the coach in a loss like this. Even our defense consistently failed to make the play when we needed it most on the last two drives. So are you saying that for 3 quarters the defensive coach was a great game day coach, and for 8 minutes in the fourth he was not? They probably called defenses the same way they had all day in the fourth. It always comes down to making a play in close games and unfortunately we did not when it meant the most.