I went to the Albert Osuna hearing today/ Osuna update

#131
#131
preacherman20 said:
To all the guys who think and have said this will be a distraction. The master has turned it into a bonding point not a distraction.
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Indeed. I should have known better— got duped. CTV was playing chess all along! Great strategy to rally the troops and get the pressure of being defending NC off their backs. Besides, the NCAA is easy to dislike! Alberto seems like a big lovable teddy bear!
 
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#132
#132
www.baseballamerica.com

Alberto Osuna Eligibility: How Tennessee Transfer Emerged As A Leader Amid NCAA Battle

Alberto Osuna arrived at Tennessee with hopes of playing one final season—but an NCAA eligibility battle has left his future in limbo.
www.baseballamerica.com www.baseballamerica.com


Seriously I need help, What am I missing here?

I hate to say this as a Tennessee fan, but did this young man already play 3 seasons of Power 5 college baseball and 2 seasons of JUCO as he basically got the 2020 season back due to COVID. So he played 4-1/2 seasons of college baseball and was getting another season at Tampa due to an NCAA exception. Don't get me wrong, I abhor the NCAA but this seems like a whole "Give an inch/Take a Mile" situation as Alberto is asking the NCAA to completely ignore all of his time in Juco.

What is the issue that I don't understand? Pavia has not really won a court case as he just obtained an injunction from a friendly court while his case against the NCAA continues. And from what I see, I do not think the Osuna case is all that similar to Pavia and he is not in the same court as Pavia as one court is not forced to offer a stay just because there's a "similar" case in another court. I see the basics is an anti-trust argument but the NCAA does not force any athlete to attend junior colleges.

I'm beginning to cringe when I see a Vol fan tagging Free Berto hashtags and accusing the NCAA of just fighting the case because Alberto wanted to go to Tennessee. The judge evidently felt the NCAA had a strong case. The NCAA has -and continues to contest, the Pavia case along with other cases.
 
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#133
#133
fryeguy93 said:
www.baseballamerica.com

Alberto Osuna Eligibility: How Tennessee Transfer Emerged As A Leader Amid NCAA Battle

Alberto Osuna arrived at Tennessee with hopes of playing one final season—but an NCAA eligibility battle has left his future in limbo.
www.baseballamerica.com www.baseballamerica.com


Seriously I need help, What am I missing here?

I hate to say this as a Tennessee fan, but did this young man already play 3 seasons of Power 5 college baseball and 2 seasons of JUCO as he basically got the 2020 season back due to COVID. So he played 4-1/2 seasons of college baseball and was getting another season at Tampa due to an NCAA exception. Don't get me wrong, I abhor the NCAA but this seems like a whole "Give an inch/Take a Mile" situation as Alberto is asking the NCAA to completely ignore all of his time in Juco.

What is the issue that I don't understand? Pavia has not really won a court case as he just obtained an injunction from a friendly court while his case against the NCAA continues. And from what I see, I do not think the Osuna case is all that similar to Pavia and he is not in the same court as Pavia as one court is not forced to offer a stay just because there's a "similar" case in another court. I see the basics is an anti-trust argument but the NCAA does not force any athlete to attend junior colleges.

I'm beginning to cringe when I see a Vol fan tagging Free Berto hashtags and accusing the NCAA of just fighting the case because Alberto wanted to go to Tennessee. The judge evidently felt the NCAA had a strong case. The NCAA has -and continues to contest, the Pavia case along with other cases.
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I have not followed closely but a main argument is that someone loses NIL value in JC vs D1 ... the vandy QB wants 4 yrs of D1.
 
#134
#134
StarRaider said:
I have not followed closely but a main argument is that someone loses NIL value in JC vs D1 ... the vandy QB wants 4 yrs of D1.
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Yeah, but Juco is voluntary. Does Juco prohibit NIL?

I think Berto hurt his case by following the original rule to Tampa and then trying to jump back to Div 1.
I guess the only exception is if someone at the NCAA office told him he would be ok to do so and then was denied.
 
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#135
#135
fryeguy93 said:
Yeah, but Juco is voluntary. Does Juco prohibit NIL?

I think Berto hurt his case by following the original rule to Tampa and then trying to jump back to Div 1.
I guess the only exception is if someone at the NCAA office told him he would be ok to do so and then was denied.
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I just dont think the ncaa will change on Berto.... but like someone posted already the energy seems to have galvanized the team
 
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#136
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#137
#137
I will say this...I’m against unlimited eligibility and for JUCO not counting towards 5/4 however, Alberto or ‘Berto as the players call him seems like an incredible teammate and young man. He always interacts with the young kids and seems like he’s enjoying himself despite the extenuating circumstance…. He’s easy to pull for…..
 
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#138
#138
taylorvol said:
I will say this...I’m against unlimited eligibility and for JUCO not counting towards 5/4 however, Alberto or ‘Berto as the players call him seems like an incredible teammate and young man. He always interacts with the young kids and seems like he’s enjoying himself despite the extenuating circumstance…. He’s easy to pull for…..
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Described to me as "one of the nicest guys ever."
 
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#143
#143
knoxvol52 said:
I never agreed with the Pavia decision to start with and it's not because he plays for Vanderbilt. These players need to play their allotted time and move on . It's really starting to hinder the development of younger guys ...
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I think this is missed a lot. But it really hurts the high school players the most.

As OP pointed out, eventually most players will be forced to “play down” at JUCO or a lower-level school as a type of farm system for D1.

But, regardless, it is unfair for Pavia to get the opportunity while others don’t. It needs to be uniform so it is fair for all.
 
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#144
#144
EZE said:
I think this is missed a lot. But it really hurts the high school players the most.

As OP pointed out, eventually most players will be forced to “play down” at JUCO or a lower-level school as a type of farm system for D1.

But, regardless, it is unfair for Pavia to get the opportunity while others don’t. It needs to be uniform so it is fair for all.
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Since we're presently in the college sports twilight zone, I question where it all ends? Could a player cut from a professional roster return to the "college" game and sign a contract and continue playing? At this point, I'm seeing no benefit to the recruitment of HS athletes in any sport. They're unknowns and can walk at any point in time so, again, why bother?
 
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#145
#145
CAVPUT said:
Since we're presently in the college sports twilight zone, I question where it all ends? Could a player cut from a professional roster return to the "college" game and sign a contract and continue playing? At this point, I'm seeing no benefit to the recruitment of HS athletes in any sport. They're unknowns and can walk at any point in time so, again, why bother?
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A very cynical, negative & pessimistic assessment....& I think you're SPOT ON. Sad, isn't it?
 
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#146
#146
@1RBFjr said:
I don't know if @Freak may want to merge or not.

I went to the Alberto Osuna hearing today. It lasted two hours. The courthouse is across the street from my office, so it was easy to attend. Other than the attorneys (and Osuna), the spectators were CTV, CFA, Hunter Ensley, Mike Wilson from the paper, and me.

Objectively, I think both sides did a good job presenting their case. I do not claim to have any special knowledge about the case, but as a Tennessee baseball fan who is also a lawyer, I knew I would be interested in listening to the arguments. There are many, many layers to this case; it's complicated.

A huge distinction was made today by the NCAA between D1 football and D1 baseball- money each brings in, popularity, NIL opportunities, and when can the athlete get drafted.

Below are my notes from the arguments. Most of the notes are my words- don't read into something that's probably not there. I'm not a reporter; you get what you paid for. I am an unabashed UT baseball fan, and almost all of you certainly know it by now. The hearing was two hours- I'm sure I missed things. Remember, you get what you paid for.

Rather than burying it in the order that it came up, I will mention that towards the end of the hearing that the NCAA attorney said the NCAA is ready to deny Osuna‘s transfer today. It came up at the * below.

Osuna’s attorney (I'm going to simply say "Osuna" from here all out, but I really mean his attorney): A student athlete attending a junior college is penalized when transferring to a four-year school. It restricts the student from earning NIL deals at a four year school. The athlete can’t sell t-shirts with his name on it or get an NIL marketing deal.

NCAA attorney ("NCAA" from here on out)- wants to “protect compatibility of the product.“ (I think what was being said was they don't want to have a a bunch of 26 year old (or older) players.)

The Pavia matter is still in court, under appeal by the NCAA. There will be a trial at some point. The NCAA thinks the judge in middle Tennessee got it wrong, Osuna loves that decision.

NCAA says the same baseball transfer eligibility rules apply from juco to D1, D3 to D2, and D2 to D1.

Osuna says the restrictions limit the athlete's commercial value. If Osuna can't play, he's not going to be on a t-shirt; if no t-shirt, no money for Osuna. There is no reason Pavia’s extra eligibility decision should not also apply to Osuna.

In 2023, approximately 20% of the D1 baseball players came from juco.

Playing one year at a juco costs one year at a D1 school. The judge asked "isn’t that decision of being made by the athlete if they go to juco?“

The NCAA argued that if a juco player gets all of his D1 eligibility (as in playing juco does not count towards playing in D1) a D1 coach will say I want a juco guy with all that juco experience over a guy who just graduated high school and will have the exact same amount of eligibility as the guy coming out from a juco. The NCAA said that’s basically what the Clemson baseball coach said in a recent article this month.

NCAA argued that the Pavia decision was wrong and used a wrong analysis (and that it was for football and not baseball). The Pavlia case (in Nashville) is not binding on the Knoxville court. NIL is big in D1 football and D1 men's basketball- it's impact is presently unknown in D1 baseball.

NCAA attorney candidly admitted that he didn't like saying Osuna's eligibility is over, but it’s the same rule across the different levels of baseball. At some time everyone's playing time is over.

NCAA: a juco baseball player can get drafted multiple times (high school, one year juco, age 21, after junior year at D1, after senior year at D1).

Osuna: if I don’t win in court now, it won’t matter to me because the trial won’t be until some point next year.

(Apparently there are other similar court cases going on in Georgia and Kansas, but no other details (or names of cases) were given.)

Osuna: the NCAA isn’t being fair and inclusive. The NCAA is taking away the ability to play D1 and earn NIL because I went to a juco.

NCAA says they are trying to prevent crowding out of younger players by older players.

NCAA argued that the Alston case and O'Bannon case decided that athletes get paid, but that they got paid when they are eligible to play.

* It was this late in the hearing that Osuna's transfer status came up. Importantly, the NCAA is ready to deny Osuna‘s transfer today.

(Osuna has a higher bar to meet because he is asking for special relief before there is a trial, but Osuna says his time as a player in 2025 is running out.)

NCAA argued Osuna has played four years already, just like thousands of other athletes, so there is no difference and he doesn’t deserve extra playing time that other athletes did not get.


Mike Wilson's article:
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Hope it works out for him.
 
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#147
#147
feathersax said:
A very cynical, negative & pessimistic assessment....& I think you're SPOT ON. Sad, isn't it?
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Yep. Just a couple of old geezers yelling at the clouds I guess. We just happen to be old enough to remember the sport the way it used to be. Without those memories, we'd probably not be so cynical?
 
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#148
#148
CAVPUT said:
Yep. Just a couple of old geezers yelling at the clouds I guess. We just happen to be old enough to remember the sport the way it used to be. Without those memories, we'd probably not be so cynical?
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I was yelling at those clouds today on the driving range. Go away clouds.
 
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