I still don't understand all the animosity toward Butch Jones

#76
#76
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#77
#77
Bubba Vol said:
You all made some very good points, but I still don't hate Butch. He at least came and tried when no other better coach would touch us. I do resent the administration at the time. Our Bama AD didn't really try too hard to find a good coach.
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Disagree. There were Pruitt like coaches available that had not been HC's but were ready for a move. There were more proven coaches available if UT had been willing to offer more money. What could UK's Stoops have done with UT's resources? We will never know.

Jones likely got the job by being what he is... a used car salesman. He sold a shiny paint job with nothing under the hood.
 
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#78
#78
Longsufferingvol said:
Go ahead and shoot me, but I just don't get it.
Yes, Butch was in over his head. Yes, his in-game decisions were often bad. And yes, his decisions lost us a few big games.
But ... But ... But he also got us back into the spotlight. We were ranked in the Top 10 and beat Georgia and Florida in 2016. Then 2017 happened and people forgot all that came before. I was glad to see Butch go, but I have no animosity toward the guy. He was just a transition guy. So why does everyone seem to despise him so much?
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You seem to answer your own question. We should have beaten Oklahoma and Florida in 2015. I would also add that Jones and his staff were horrible at player development. His teams had too much attrition. We had a revolving door of transfers. His players didn't like him. He also stuck us in a scheme which made it much harder to recruit backs and receivers. Clemson owes Jones a lot... Travis Lawrence, Tee Higgins and Travis Etienne should have been Vols. Finally, the guy has milked every dime of the buyout. He has been content to not be on a coaching staff and just work as a $35,000 per year "intern" because he wants every dime of his buyout money... and done so at Alabama. He has not legitimately attempted to mitigate the cost of his buyout, as the terms of his contract dictate.
 
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#79
#79
No hate from me. He was just in over his head. I don't blame him for giving it a shot, but just couldn't hack it.
 
#80
#80
He's been cashing six figure checks from Tennessee for years while doing nothing aside from washing Nick Saban's rentals on a low rent job. He had the nerve to cheer on Alabama beating his own players into submission and then smoked a cigar he could never earn on his own. His own players. The kids to whom he made promises he could never deliver. He ran and tucked his crybaby attitude under Nick Saban's khakis and then had the nerve to light one up as if anything he'd done meant a damn. Had the nerve to celebrate watching the team he assembled get humiliated and then run a victory lap like he'd finally accomplished something. Hell the best thing he *did* accomplish was somehow convincing Alvin Kamara to come to Tennessee, and he couldn't even make anything out of that. He is a petty, vindictive little sycophant who can never -- ever -- suffer enough scorn to balance the books on his horrible behavior.
 
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#81
#81
He was a micromanager and apparently created a toxic culture. I think he would've been a fine assistant coach or somewhere in the administration but not a power 5 HC.
 
#82
#82
Voltopia said:
He's been cashing six figure checks from Tennessee for years while doing nothing aside from washing Nick Saban's rentals on a low rent job. He had the nerve to cheer on Alabama beating his own players into submission and then smoked a cigar he could never earn on his own. His own players. The kids to whom he made promises he could never deliver. He ran and tucked his crybaby attitude under Nick Saban's khakis and then had the nerve to light one up as if anything he'd done meant a damn. Had the nerve to celebrate watching the team he assembled get humiliated and then run a victory lap like he'd finally accomplished something. Hell the best thing he *did* accomplish was somehow convincing Alvin Kamara to come to Tennessee, and he couldn't even make anything out of that. He is a petty, vindictive little sycophant who can never -- ever -- suffer enough scorn to balance the books on his horrible behavior.
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All of this! Especially this part "He is a petty, vindictive little sycophant who can never -- ever -- suffer enough scorn to balance the books on his horrible behavior". Well said!
 
#83
#83
I think UT fans are too impatient. We have caused ourselves a lot of grief.
I think Butch would have turned things around given a little more time. I also think Fulmer would have turned things around given a little more time. We paid dearly for all the changes in the last few years.
I hope and pray our fans will be patient with Pruitt. We need stability.
 
#84
#84
I feel Jones was like the slowest kid in the class. It wasn’t his fault that he got out there. But then he showed no class smoking the cigar after beating the team HE recruited. So I’m in the camp he can go to hell.
 
#85
#85
ice said:
I think UT fans are too impatient. We have caused ourselves a lot of grief.
I think Butch would have turned things around given a little more time. I also think Fulmer would have turned things around given a little more time. We paid dearly for all the changes in the last few years.
I hope and pray our fans will be patient with Pruitt. We need stability.
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I'm skeptical that this is a serious post.... but Butch Jones was in his 5th season in 2017 and not only headed in the wrong direction, but in a downward spiral. We had the worst offense in the Power 5, and he couldn't recruit players into it anymore. He wasn't going to turn a damn thing around. He was going to sign one of the worst classes in the SEC in 2018.
 
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#86
#86
Longsufferingvol said:
Go ahead and shoot me, but I just don't get it.
Yes, Butch was in over his head. Yes, his in-game decisions were often bad. And yes, his decisions lost us a few big games.
But ... But ... But he also got us back into the spotlight. We were ranked in the Top 10 and beat Georgia and Florida in 2016. Then 2017 happened and people forgot all that came before. I was glad to see Butch go, but I have no animosity toward the guy. He was just a transition guy. So why does everyone seem to despise him so much?
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Dude Butch Jones didn't get us "back in the spotlight". That was Joshua Dobbs. Butch Jones blew it with a team that should of went at the very least 11-1 in 2015. His conservative and scared shitless coaching cost us a legit chance at an SEC title and playoff birth. Then he decides to get rid of a strength and conditioning coach that had done a amazing job because a couple players complained it was too hard on them. He let a few players run the show, but at the same time treated many like ****. It's well documented he's a POS person and a lousy coach. Enough said.
 
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#87
#87
Longsufferingvol said:
Go ahead and shoot me, but I just don't get it.
Yes, Butch was in over his head. Yes, his in-game decisions were often bad. And yes, his decisions lost us a few big games.
But ... But ... But he also got us back into the spotlight. We were ranked in the Top 10 and beat Georgia and Florida in 2016. Then 2017 happened and people forgot all that came before. I was glad to see Butch go, but I have no animosity toward the guy. He was just a transition guy. So why does everyone seem to despise him so much?
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100% agree. Many on here think they know a whole lot more than they really do. I think he brought us up a notch from the Dooley years and reached the highest level he was capable of carrying us before his decision making started causing the foundation to crumble. No question he had his faults and made lots of mistakes but the consistent theme of blaming everything on Butch got awfully old. Don't get me wrong--he had to go and we are certainly are in a better place now but the constant blaming of everything on him was unwarranted, in my view.
 
#89
#89
Longsufferingvol said:
Go ahead and shoot me, but I just don't get it.
Yes, Butch was in over his head. Yes, his in-game decisions were often bad. And yes, his decisions lost us a few big games.
But ... But ... But he also got us back into the spotlight. We were ranked in the Top 10 and beat Georgia and Florida in 2016. Then 2017 happened and people forgot all that came before. I was glad to see Butch go, but I have no animosity toward the guy. He was just a transition guy. So why does everyone seem to despise him so much?
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Yup - I remember my first beer....
 
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#90
#90
Longsufferingvol said:
Go ahead and shoot me, but I just don't get it.
Yes, Butch was in over his head. Yes, his in-game decisions were often bad. And yes, his decisions lost us a few big games.
But ... But ... But he also got us back into the spotlight. We were ranked in the Top 10 and beat Georgia and Florida in 2016. Then 2017 happened and people forgot all that came before. I was glad to see Butch go, but I have no animosity toward the guy. He was just a transition guy. So why does everyone seem to despise him so much?
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Another SEC coach said that Butch was a good recruiter, but had no idea what to do on Saturdays. The only animosity I have toward him is that he is not seriously looking for a head coaching job. He continues to live on the UT teat. Not much of man.
 
#91
#91
There were rumblings that the game had passed the coach by and he needed to go after a really bad year.

No, not Butch. General Neyland.

After the '48 season, some Tennessee boosters and fans had enough. They weren't quite taking to the streets with pitchforks, but things were headed that way. We went 4-4-2, missed the post-season for the second year in a row, lost to both Ole Miss and Mississippi State, and closed the year out with an embarrassing 28-6 shellacking from Vanderbilt. Folks were ready to get a new coach.

The very next year, the General turned it around and got us to 7-2-1. The year after that, we won another national championship with him. And the year after that, yet another one.

Many of the same folks who wanted to retire the old man just a few years earlier were now his most vocal supporters.

Similar thing happened with Phil Fulmer. Who knows if we'd have celebrated another national title with him at the helm, if we hadn't been so rabid to toss him to the curb.

"So what the hell's your point, JP? This thread's about Butch, not Neyland or Fulmer."

The point is, we're fickle and volatile. We're extremists. Not all of us, but enough to make a lot of noise. And I don't just mean Vols fans...it's become a notable shortcoming throughout American society.

My point isn't that we should've given Butch another year. No. Not at all. You don't lead the football program to its worst season in history (8 losses in a single season for the first time in school history; 0-8 in SEC play for the first time in school history), and survive. It was absolutely time for Butch to go. He was in way over his head.

No, my point is simpler than that. We tend to see the world in extremes. There is no middle ground.

In short, folks dislike CBJ because he wasn't a good coach. They DESPISE him because extremism is winning in every aspect of society. Can't just dislike him. Gotta HATE him.

You asked why folks have so much animosity. That's why.
 
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#92
#92
livefaith said:
Getting caught on a hot mic cursing the fans in Neyland didn't help.
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I thought it was more that he was caught on video on the sideline appearing to cuss fans and people did some lip reading, not that anyone actually heard him say it
 
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#93
#93
I still say he had some bad luck. Officals cost him the OU game, having too big of a lead vs Fla. Their gamble paid off on 4th down. Their awesome kicker missed 3 vs Bama.
 
#96
#96
The problem I have with Butch is that he walked in here on day 1 refusing to learn anything or take advice from anyone. The entire future NFL O-Line tried to get Butch to keep Sam Pittman and he would have none of it....and we know how that turned out. He fired an extremely well respected S&C coach because he knew better....and we know how that turned out. His constant stupid quotes and parlor tricks(ie garbage can) made TN a national laughing stock. The attrition of highly ranked players under Butch left UT in a much worse position that when he arrived. He set the program back a decade and if that isn't damage enough, he sits and milks UT for every cent he can because he knows he is a fraud and will be exposed again wherever he goes next to coach. I think the thing that gets me the most is not just all the damage that he did here...it's the complete lack of contrition. He doesn't want to coach...he wants to scam. If he wanted to coach, he would be coaching somewhere, in some capacity. He was a snake oil salesman and he knew it. He ran a dog and pony show...not a football program. He knew his days were numbered here and he milked the university for every dime he could. He lied to recruits to get them here and then demanded raises and extensions based on his recruiting. Of course he couldn't deliver any results and many recruits saw straight through his fraud and left. Anybody with a good eye can see that Butch Jones is a scam artist and nothing more. If he had done a poor job, acknowledged it and went back to work, I wouldn't have a problem with him. The fact he is settling for a ridiculous salary at the expense of the university that took a chance on him(and he destroyed), leaves me with no respect at all for Butch Jones.
 
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#97
#97
I was never a fan of Butch Jones (from day one) because he was too "cheerleaderish" and "look over here" for me. Regardless, he was UT's coach and I hoped he succeeded. His 1st team (2013) didn't have much talent but they were disciplined and may have led the SEC in fewest penalties and/or yards that season. Unfortunately, that discipline didn't hold up.

2017 was UT's worst record in history but it wasn't the least talented team in UT history. UT should've beaten UF and started the year 5-1. Once the USC loss happened, followed by an a$$ kicking to Bama and a close loss vs. UK they mailed it in. The writing was on the wall. There was too much animosity at that point and he had to go.

Just my opinion.
 
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#98
#98
ice said:
I think UT fans are too impatient. We have caused ourselves a lot of grief.
I think Butch would have turned things around given a little more time. I also think Fulmer would have turned things around given a little more time. We paid dearly for all the changes in the last few years.
I hope and pray our fans will be patient with Pruitt. We need stability.
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Butch kept Don Mahoney on staff until he absolutely could no longer do so. Decisions like that are proof that Butch would never have gotten out of his own way and actually turned things around. He was thoroughly convinced the he was right, and that his "system" would work, even though he had multiple season's worth of evidence that it would not.
 
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#99
#99
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#100
#100
There is a reason the Bama coaches getting better opportunities as head coaches do not take Butch on as a very cheap position coach. They don't want him. He stays at Bama because he has nowhere else to go. Saban keeps him to drain UT coffers. When that is done, just see what happens. The scandals of his tenure have faded, but they give ADs enough cover not to hire him.
 
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