I really like this team...I really do...

[StepCross]

I have watched plenty of basketball to know that our teams have blown more than their share of games with their awful free throw shooting.

I've watched plenty of basketball too. In 2009, for instance, Tennessee lost WAY more than their fair share of games because of their utter inability to defend any perimeter player whatsoever.

That's the kind of problem that keeps you from being within 10 points at the end of the game. FT shooting is more of a fine-tuning thing in a game you're already in.

Which is more important?

 

[BigPapaVol]

But they are.

Memphis was AWFUL at FT shooting in Calipari's last year. 329th out of 341. And yet one glance at Memphis's team could tell you that they were a top 5 team...something pace stats confirmed.

Pace stats are utter garbage if the team generating them happens to suck. The Memphis team was absolutely loaded and about 14 seconds of watching them or evaluating their defense would have made that very clear. Pace gibberish meant nothing.

Are you serious that you think you can size up a team by looking at its FT percentage??? FT percentages are all over the map, for good teams and bad teams both.

I can size up as much from FT shooting or shooting in general as you can from the new moneyball stuff. None of it is worth a crap in a vacuum. Very little of it is opponent independent, and FT shooting is definitely one of the few that is.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I've watched plenty of basketball too. In 2009, for instance, Tennessee lost WAY more than their fair share of games because of their utter inability to defend any perimeter player whatsoever.

That's the kind of problem that keeps you from being within 10 points at the end of the game. FT shooting is more of a fine-tuning thing in a game you're already in.

Which is more important?

Nobody is arguing that our defense has done anything but blow for the majority of Pearl's tenure.

Nobody is arguing that FT shooting is more important than defense. I'm not advocating FT shooting improvement as a panacea. I'm saying it's as important as the pace gibberish that gets tossed about by the stats geeks. Defensive efficiency and offensive efficiency make some sense, but not without a helluva lot of context.

 

[StepCross]

Again, it only matters in tight games, where single points are the entire difference in almost every single possession.

And one more rebound, one more made three, one more stop, one less turnover are JUST as key. And those things ALWAYS matter, at all points of every game.

Of course it matters. I'm just saying other things matter more, and more often.

And back to my original point...it's crazy to look at a team preseason and denigrate them because you don't see clutch free-throw shooters. Geez, look for scorers and defenders and rebounders first, ya know?

 

[BigPapaVol]

And one more rebound, one more made three, one more stop, one less turnover are JUST as key. And those things ALWAYS matter, at all points of every game.

Who said they don't matter?

Of course it matters. I'm just saying other things matter more, and more often.

That's fine, but it's again one of the few spots where our team has absolute control of its outcome.

And back to my original point...it's crazy to look at a team preseason and denigrate them because you don't see clutch free-throw shooters. Geez, look for scorers and defenders and rebounders first, ya know?

I'm not denigrating them for FT%, although I do believe it to be indicative of effort, attention to detail, focus, coaching emphasis, etc.

I'll be the first to say that our issues over the past 6 or 7 years have been defensive intensity and lost halfcourt offense approach.

 

[Heebs]

No. It's right because you don't shoot a lot of free throws in a given game, they're only worth 1 point each, and there's not a ton of variation in percentages.

For instance, we shot 21 free-throws against MSU. A 5% increase in FT percentage would have been ONE MORE POINT.

That's not really a ton...you could get one more point easier by boxing out one more time, or turning the ball over one less time, or playing better defense.

And it's not that "FT shooting only rears its head in clutch situations." Say rather that "fans only nitpick FT shooting because they remember the misses in clutch situations, and forget the rest of the FT's, as well as the defensive and offensive lapses that were even more important."

Doesn't matter when they happened, only that they happened right?

Your argument doesn't really make much sense here. As a team our FT% sucks, and it has cost us in some end of game situations, right? We're not nitpicking if there is a considerable amount of bad free throw shooting.

 

[StepCross]

We're not nitpicking if there is a considerable amount of bad free throw shooting.

It's nitpicking because it's the wrong thing to gripe about. We have bigger issues. For instance, replacing the defense of Wayne and JP is big. Replacing the ball-handling of Maze is big. Finding a consistent outside shot for the first time since Lofton left is big.

Replacing the FT% of Maze? Less big.

 

[Heebs]

You're acting like FT% was the only thing I was zeroing in on, which is untrue. I simply used FT% as a tangible way to display the loss of experience that we are going to face.

And stats or no stats, that factor is going to show up in the most clutch situations.

 

[StepCross]

I'm not denigrating them for FT%, although I do believe it to be indicative of effort, attention to detail, focus, coaching emphasis, etc.

Nah, not so much IMO. When I was playing H.S. ball, my dad used to gripe about free-throw shooting. "That's just concentration," he'd say. At the time I believed him. But in retrospect, it's rarely about concentration. If you're at the line concentrating on mechanics, you're in serious trouble already. It should be smooth and relaxed...hands and eyes.

Certainly it's not effort. Nobody goes to the line and thinks, "I'm not going to really try to hit this shot." Guys like Scotty who have OK form but miss a lot anyway are probably trying TOO hard.

Coaching emphasis? I'd be pissed if Tennessee's basketball coach was emphasizing FT's to the detriment of team offense, team defense, ballhandling, rebounding, threes, tough twos, etc.

Now, if by "effort," you mean, "whether they're putting effort in the offseason," then Wayne and Maze are prime examples that UT players ARE being taught to do that. As I pointed out, each raised his FT% by 14 points in a single year while at UT. Seems like the offseason effort is there, program-wise.

 

[StepCross]

Defensive efficiency and offensive efficiency make some sense, but not without a helluva lot of context.

Context is always important, for sure.

Most reliable is careful film study combined with statistical analysis.

What's NOT reliable is a fan watching half a game, getting emotionally invested, and then saying "my god this team's defense sucks." In that case, probably someone should have a look at the defensive efficiency (in context, of course) to see if it's really true.

 

[StepCross]

Nobody is arguing that our defense has done anything but blow for the majority of Pearl's tenure.

That's an oddball claim, considering the season we just came out of.

In 2010, our defense carried us to the elite 8 while our offense blew.

In 2009, our defense was gross.

In 2008, our defense and offense were both very good (but neither was elite).

Like others, though, I'm pretty happy that Pearl has openly admitted we're tending toward half-court defense again this year. I think that's a positive trend.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Nah, not so much IMO. When I was playing H.S. ball, my dad used to gripe about free-throw shooting. "That's just concentration," he'd say. At the time I believed him. But in retrospect, it's rarely about concentration. If you're at the line concentrating on mechanics, you're in serious trouble already. It should be smooth and relaxed...hands and eyes.

If the effort hasn't been made enough in practice, then mechanics are the main thoughts. If the effort has been made, it's about repeating makes.

Certainly it's not effort. Nobody goes to the line and thinks, "I'm not going to really try to hit this shot." Guys like Scotty who have OK form but miss a lot anyway are probably trying TOO hard.

again, it's about effort away from gameday and not gametime effort.

Coaching emphasis? I'd be pissed if Tennessee's basketball coach was emphasizing FT's to the detriment of team offense, team defense, ballhandling, rebounding, threes, tough twos, etc.

we're clearly emphasizing something to the detriment of all of them. Be pissed.

Now, if by "effort," you mean, "whether they're putting effort in the offseason," then Wayne and Maze are prime examples that UT players ARE being taught to do that. As I pointed out, each raised his FT% by 14 points in a single year while at UT. Seems like the offseason effort is there, program-wise.

See Bold.

Of course I'm talking about effort in the offseason and practice during the season.

 

[StepCross]

FT% gaps aren't as predictive as some others, but it is absolutely telling about how a team will perform in tight games

See, I think this claim might be not quite right. For instance, JP Prince was a horrendous FT shooter for his entire career...and yet, he was actually pretty good in the clutch. (yeah, I know, that's totally anecdotal; sorry. But I've watched pretty much every game Tennessee has played in the past decade, and it almost became comical with JP: if he went to the stripe at the beginning of the game, you could predict misses. If he went to the stripe with the game on the line, you could feel safe he would hit. Odd.)

I'm not sure just looking at the raw FT numbers with no context proves that a team is or isn't clutch.

 

[BigPapaVol]

That's an oddball claim, considering the season we just came out of.

we used length to clog up the inside and contested layups for the first time, so the defense looked respectable. Length also helped defend the 3.

In 2010, our defense carried us to the elite 8 while our offense blew.

See above.

In 2009, our defense was gross.

As it was in 08, 07, 06...

In 2008, our defense and offense were both very good (but neither was elite).

That defense was weak, but better than the disorganized offense. Neither was very good.

Like others, though, I'm pretty happy that Pearl has openly admitted we're tending toward half-court defense again this year. I think that's a positive trend.

Don't disagree with the last statement. I don't mind the ratball approach if we have the players for it and our halfcourt D is still respectable.

 

[StepCross]

See Bold.

Of course I'm talking about effort in the offseason and practice during the season.

Thanks for the clarification; believe it or not, lots of fans really do believe that you can make more free-throws by actually trying harder at the line.

You said, "clearly emphasizing something to the detriment of all of them," which I find kind of surprising.

I'm kind of newish here as you can tell by my post count, but that's an opinion I haven't seen or heard much. With the W/L records we've put up the past 5 years, I don't see how our offense, defense, rebounding, etc. can all suck, unless we just have overwhelming talent and any idiot could have coached us to those records. But...I mean, really? Bradshaw at PF? Walk-on JaJuan Smith starting? Beating Kansas with Woolridge and McBee?

Our talent has gradually upgraded during Pearl's tenure, but it's not ever yet been what I would call overwhelming. Hell, the media has us pegged for 4th this year in the east, with no all-conference 1st teamers.

So if our talent is OK but not great, and our coaching sucks, how are we pulling off the wins? (I think we could all agree it's not the FT shooting...)

 

[StepCross]

That (2008) defense was weak, but better than the disorganized offense. Neither was very good.

How on earth, then, did we go 28-3 in the regular season and ascend to #1 with Lofton struggling post-cancer, no slasher, no post threat, and a PG situation that was so shaky Pearl changed PG's mid-tournament?

Seriously, look at that team. On paper, that's just not a 28-3 team.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Thanks for the clarification; believe it or not, lots of fans really do believe that you can make more free-throws by actually trying harder at the line.

You said, "clearly emphasizing something to the detriment of all of them," which I find kind of surprising.

I'm kind of newish here as you can tell by my post count, but that's an opinion I haven't seen or heard much. With the W/L records we've put up the past 5 years, I don't see how our offense, defense, rebounding, etc. can all suck, unless we just have overwhelming talent and any idiot could have coached us to those records. But...I mean, really? Bradshaw at PF? Walk-on JaJuan Smith starting? Beating Kansas with Woolridge and McBee?

Our talent has gradually upgraded during Pearl's tenure, but it's not ever yet been what I would call overwhelming. Hell, the media has us pegged for 4th this year in the east, with no all-conference 1st teamers.

So if our talent is OK but not great, and our coaching sucks, how are we pulling off the wins? (I think we could all agree it's not the FT shooting...)

We have won because we've generally had more talent than those we've played. SEC has been very weak, so our talent level has been way above center. We also had Lofton and JJ for a couple of those seasons. Their ham & egg 3 point shooting was a difference maker. JJ also created TOs like they were going out of style.

Last year, we had some pretty good fortune in the tourney to miss the better teams, but were a better defensive team than we had been in years past.

You knock the talent, but we have been a PG away from being a very, very good basketball team over the past couple of years. We haven't had that big time pro prospect, but we have been solid across the board. We play a bit disorganized and undisciplined, but the talent upgrade has been the difference.

 

[BigPapaVol]

How on earth, then, did we go 28-3 in the regular season and ascend to #1 with Lofton struggling post-cancer, no slasher, no post threat, and a PG situation that was so shaky Pearl changed PG's mid-tournament?

Seriously, look at that team. On paper, that's just not a 28-3 team.

we had 3 very, very good collegiate basketball players on that team.

 

[hatvol96]

How on earth, then, did we go 28-3 in the regular season and ascend to #1 with Lofton struggling post-cancer, no slasher, no post threat, and a PG situation that was so shaky Pearl changed PG's mid-tournament?

Seriously, look at that team. On paper, that's just not a 28-3 team.

The utter ineptness of the SEC played a huge part in that record. They played Texas and Louisville, both Elite Eight teams, on neutral floors. They got embarrased in both games. That team was fortunate Butler didn't know how to finish a game, or they would have spent the second weekend at home.

 

[hatvol96]

we had 3 very, very good collegiate basketball players on that team.

I'll take J. and T. Smith and Chism against that year's SEC field and take my chances all day long.

 

[StepCross]

You knock the talent, but we have been a PG away from being a very, very good basketball team over the past couple of years.

Let's take 2008, for instance; probably our best year, front-to-end.

-No true PG
-No slasher
-No post-up threat
-Both 3-ball shooters were inconsistent...we waited all year saying, "where's Lofton???" only to find out he was sick.

2006 was even worse, as far as talent. We had Lofton and CJ bombing away, but Bradshaw/Wingate/Patterson in the post was 6th-ranked in the SEC type talent (which is exactly where we were picked). I remember watching the game at LSU that year, and it was just painful. They were so big, and our guys were trying, and there was just nothing they could do. The outcome was inevitable from front to end, and as a fan you're sitting there thinking that no combination, no strategy, no personnel will work...we just didn't have the size to play with them.

And yet a sweep of Florida and 1st in the east?

 

[JZVOL]

Nah, not so much IMO. When I was playing H.S. ball, my dad used to gripe about free-throw shooting. "That's just concentration," he'd say. At the time I believed him. But in retrospect, it's rarely about concentration. If you're at the line concentrating on mechanics, you're in serious trouble already. It should be smooth and relaxed...hands and eyes.

Certainly it's not effort. Nobody goes to the line and thinks, "I'm not going to really try to hit this shot." Guys like Scotty who have OK form but miss a lot anyway are probably trying TOO hard.

Coaching emphasis? I'd be pissed if Tennessee's basketball coach was emphasizing FT's to the detriment of team offense, team defense, ballhandling, rebounding, threes, tough twos, etc.

Now, if by "effort," you mean, "whether they're putting effort in the offseason," then Wayne and Maze are prime examples that UT players ARE being taught to do that. As I pointed out, each raised his FT% by 14 points in a single year while at UT. Seems like the offseason effort is there, program-wise.

Interesting to note how much time was spent at the free throw line between 'Nova and St. Joe's when I visited. Both squads shot a lot of free throws.

You don't have to spend 30 minutes on free throws and neglect other things. These practices are scripted to the very minute and there is plenty of time to work on free throws in between other drills. In fact many drills will start from a foul shout and go from there.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

But they are.

Memphis was AWFUL at FT shooting in Calipari's last year. 329th out of 341. And yet one glance at Memphis's team could tell you that they were a top 5 team...something pace stats confirmed.

Are you serious that you think you can size up a team by looking at its FT percentage??? FT percentages are all over the map, for good teams and bad teams both.

Memphis is an interesting example. They had top five talent, but lost a national championship due to an inability to hit free throws. Oh well....