I missed this story: USA slowly becoming a debtors' prison

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
Owe The IRS? Bill Would Suspend Passport Rights For Delinquent Taxpayers « CBS Los Angeles

A bill authored by a Southland lawmaker that could potentially allow the federal government to prevent any Americans who owe back taxes from traveling outside the U.S. is one step closer to becoming law.

Senate Bill 1813 was introduced back in November by Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Los Angeles) to “reauthorize Federal-aid highway and highway safety construction programs, and for other purposes” .
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They are going to keep us here trapped...Right now, they are going after delinquent taxpayers. But as we know, this is a slippery slope. What next? I think they already suspend your passport if you owe back child support. They will probably do the same pretty soon if you owe more than X amount on your student loans. There are people out there with easily more than $50k of student loan debt, as well. And good luck to you guys trying to get the wheels of gov't to turn fast enough for you to get your travel privileges back once you've paid your tab with the gov't. It could probably take years.

Land of the free...
 
#2
#2
I said this garbage was on the way about 6 months ago along with the Govt. about to take over your 401K plans. Sad thing is this is just a start.
 
#3
#3
I'll be honest, I have a hard time finding sympathy for people who can't pay their debts but can afford to travel
 
#4
#4
having a private debt and owing the IRS are two different things

a credit card company can't stop you from leaving the country or use the threat of government force to compel you to pay
 
#5
#5
utvolpj said:
I'll be honest, I have a hard time finding sympathy for people who can't pay their debts but can afford to travel
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People who can't pay their debts, yes, but people who simply have debt would be ridiculous, as Ras speculated with student loan debt. I don't think our government is that stupid.
 
#6
#6
I wouldn't put it past them. This administration plays by their own rules anyway.
 
#7
#7
Thrasher865 said:
People who can't pay their debts, yes, but people who simply have debt would be ridiculous, as Ras speculated with student loan debt. I don't think our government is that stupid.
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I would hope simply having debt is not a qualification since every American owes about $80k at this point for the national debt. No one is going anywhere for a long time
 
#8
#8
Prob with the IRS is that they can manufacture debt for you. I received a letter stating that I had underpaid by $3400 six years previous. With penalties and interest it was $10k. I spent about $1500 getting their mistake cleared.
 
#9
#9
I pay my student loans every month because I have a responsibility. People that are delinquent in their payments shouldn't be traveling out the country, they should be working to pay that debt off. Furthermore, if Obama starts student loan forgiveness plans to people who don't need it, which is the majority of people who want it, I will go insane.
 
#10
#10
mdrew27 said:
I pay my student loans every month because I have a responsibility. People that are delinquent in their payments shouldn't be traveling out the country, they should be working to pay that debt off. Furthermore, if Obama starts student loan forgiveness plans to people who don't need it, which is the majority of people who want it, I will go insane.
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I pay my debts on time as well. But I sure hope they forgive my debt :) I would not go insane.
 
#13
#13
MG1968 said:
as I said before, tax debt isn't the same as money owed to a credit card company, the OP doesn't distinguish between the two
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Should I have made a distinction between what you owe the govt vs what you owe the banks?????
 
#14
#14
PKT_VOL said:
What is wrong with this? I'm failing to see the outrage.
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You're right. If the IRS decides you owe some money/penalties, etc., you stay where you are until it is all cleared up. We all know the accuracy and efficiency of government agencies.

If we are going this route we really need to make sure welfare recipients are paying their debts to society as well.
 
#15
#15
There are several examples of people that have to travel for their jobs. Imagine being in the situation of owing the irs, yet not being abled to make a living in your field to payoff that debt. I can understand someone with $40k of credit card debt being denied (somewhat), but people that make an honest living that are being penalized by an ever expanding govt that takes more and more from them each year... that is for the most part out of their control. They cant control how much taxes the govt will choose to take from them. Or, what about that 18 year old that signed up for $80k of student loan debt to only come out 4 years later with no job? Yeah, lets penalize the young for buying into the hype of the American Dream of getting a college degree, getting a good job and living happily ever after.

And I could really see this happening to these 2 groups of people. The honest, hardworking people in the middle class will always pay the freight for the rest of the country, while the banks above them leech them dry with high interest and more printing of money out of thin air. Then of course, the people in the middle are left to pay off those debts with their taxes (faith in the US taxpayer to back up our currency). As long as we have willing taxpayers here to pay off the interest, we will have sound money. The poor people below the middle class will continue to not miss a beat as their checks continue to roll in every month and they are free to be as feral as they like.
 
#16
#16
Rasputin_Vol said:
They cant control how much taxes the govt will choose to take from them.
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so the tax rate is a mystery?

Rasputin_Vol said:
Or, what about that 18 year old that signed up for $80k of student loan debt to only come out 4 years later with no job? Yeah, lets penalize the young for buying into the hype of the American Dream of getting a college degree, getting a good job and living happily ever after.
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since when is the American Dream about being $80k in debt with no idea how to pay it off? Doesn't seem like they learned too much in school and probably should have made a better decision on where to attend. If you got $80k worth of schooling then you owe the person that allowed that to happen
 
#17
#17
utvolpj said:
so the tax rate is a mystery?



since when is the American Dream about being $80k in debt with no idea how to pay it off? Doesn't seem like they learned too much in school and probably should have made a better decision on where to attend. If you got $80k worth of schooling then you owe the person that allowed that to happen
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1. No the tax rate "today" isn't a mystery. The tax rate in the future is. If you've lived your life under a budget and the govt comes in next year with a tax increase of some sort, that is putting more of a squeeze on your finances

2. 18-21 year olds are naive. Parents a lot of times are no better and give these kids bad advice. So the reality of starting out your adult life with a boat anchor of student loan debt doesn't really hit you in the face WHILE you are in school and still buying into the American Dream that your parents, teachers and media have pumped into you for the first 18 years of your life. Reality slaps you initially after graduation and then bit by bit as the years go by. In other words, by the time the realize what's going on, they've probably already taken in 4 years of debt. You may could argue that if they further that debt with grad school, then that is showing a lack of understanding/knowledge of their surroundings. But the initial load many of these kids takes is based off of erroneous advice from their parents and elders. It sucks for them.
 
#18
#18
Rasputin_Vol said:
1. No the tax rate "today" isn't a mystery. The tax rate in the future is. If you've lived your life under a budget and the govt comes in next year with a tax increase of some sort, that is putting more of a squeeze on your finances
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you totally ignore the fact most people in the US wouldn't even know their tax bracket. They're ignorant because they choose to be. How many celebrate that great refund check the IRS sends every year without realizing where it came from? If you're making enough to actually pay taxes then you should probably figure out your rate. No sympathy

Rasputin_Vol said:
2. 18-21 year olds are naive. Parents a lot of times are no better and give these kids bad advice. So the reality of starting out your adult life with a boat anchor of student loan debt doesn't really hit you in the face WHILE you are in school and still buying into the American Dream that your parents, teachers and media have pumped into you for the first 18 years of your life. Reality slaps you initially after graduation and then bit by bit as the years go by. In other words, by the time the realize what's going on, they've probably already taken in 4 years of debt. You may could argue that if they further that debt with grad school, then that is showing a lack of understanding/knowledge of their surroundings. But the initial load many of these kids takes is based off of erroneous advice from their parents and elders. It sucks for them.
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I actually turned down a school because it was too expensive and went to UT. I was 17yo at the time but I guess I just so much smarter than most. $80k is not required to get out and get a job, especially since many are majors in your favorite programs- liberal arts. If you spend that much money to get a degree in psychology or women's studies then again I have no sympathy. However, college just taught the graduate more in one bill from the loan company than they learned in 4yrs. Congrats on entering the real world
 
#19
#19
allvol123 said:
You're right. If the IRS decides you owe some money/penalties, etc., you stay where you are until it is all cleared up. We all know the accuracy and efficiency of government agencies.

If we are going this route we really need to make sure welfare recipients are paying their debts to society as well.
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You make a point, but hopefully, theoretically at least, that should happen to only a small amount of people and ought to be quickly rectifiable.

Is it fundamentally right for those who do not pay the taxes they owe to be allowed to travel overseas as they please?
 
#20
#20
PKT_VOL said:
Is it fundamentally right for those who do not pay the taxes they owe to be allowed to travel overseas as they please?
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Fundamentally... its not right. I agree with you to an extent. My concern is that as our nations debt piles up, at some point, the middle class will be asked to carry that burden (thru higher taxes). And at that point, that is when all bets are off.
 
#21
#21
OP doesn't know what a debtor's prison is.

Anyway, what they should do is let people leave but bar them from re-entering the U.S. until they pay their debt.
 
#24
#24
Rasputin_Vol said:
Fundamentally... its not right. I agree with you to an extent. My concern is that as our nations debt piles up, at some point, the middle class will be asked to carry that burden (thru higher taxes). And at that point, that is when all bets are off.
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What is wrong with that? Are they not collecting the benefits?

This hole took a long time to dig. The middle class is responsible. When the time comes to pay for it, they want to run and hide.

It just sucks that your generation (at least I believe you are much older than myself) is profoundly f***ing over my generation.
 
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