I lost the locker room over NIL payments last year

[WillisWG]

Sad state of affairs

MSN

"Losing the locker room a year ago, for me, was really personal, because it's bigger than football," Locksley said. "Last year was tough on me as a coach because for the first time, those really strong relationships were questioned. Because I had to decide whether to pay a freshman coming in or take care of a veteran player who helped me go to three bowl games."

Locksley said he now has a sign at the locker room entrance telling players to leave their finances out of the locker room. A sign of a major change in college football.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Sad state of affairs

MSN

"Losing the locker room a year ago, for me, was really personal, because it's bigger than football," Locksley said. "Last year was tough on me as a coach because for the first time, those really strong relationships were questioned. Because I had to decide whether to pay a freshman coming in or take care of a veteran player who helped me go to three bowl games."

Locksley said he now has a sign at the locker room entrance telling players to leave their finances out of the locker room. A sign of a major change in college football.

It's just the new reality. CFB coaches now have to include finances in roster management just like the pro leagues do.

Its simply a form of market stabilization.

 

[WillisWG]

It's just the new reality. CFB coaches now have to include finances in roster management just like the pro leagues do.

Its simply a form of market stabilization.

Head coaches have to have help with this stuff or it can/will go sideways really quick. Having a GM seems the way to go.

How the rise of the college football GM started in a windowless room in Tuscaloosa

The title of personnel director or general manager might not have existed 15 years ago, but now, college football can't function without them.

www.espn.com

 

[Delmar]

Just scratching the surface of this nightmare. It’s going to happen often.

 

[RandomUTfan]

It's funny how that when the money showed up he got the locker room back.

 

[vegasvolfan]

It's just the new reality. CFB coaches now have to include finances in roster management just like the pro leagues do.

Its simply a form of market stabilization.

I am fine with them looking out for themselves. A 5* could lose a knee any day. A walk on who overcomes adversity and works his way into a potential NFL trajectory could lose it all in one play.

There is the academic scholarship aspect to this scenario. Perhaps schools should start looking at incomes before handing out academic scholarships. They do that with financial aid.

 

[feathersax]

Just scratching the surface of this nightmare. It’s going to happen often.

The box has been opened & utter disaster looms.

 

[ArmchairQB]

That kind of thing has to be expected while things are so in flux. I don’t remember reading much of anything ever about an NFL coach losing the locker room over haves and have nots. But there, absolutely everyone makes at least the league minimum and it’s up to players to be a pro and self regulate over dealing with who’s a marquee player and who’s a reserve. College? No league minimum, yet.

 

[Orange-U-Glad]

There is no I in team, but it’s at the center of NIL.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I assume all of you guys work for your coworkers and your personal money from the company doesn't matter?

It's a business. The sour grapes here is from old way of thinking. No one on the Colts needed to hate on Peyton for his salary, he dealt with the company just like they did.

You're trying to create a player vs player issue when like any job it's actually workers vs company.

You work to take care of yourself and your family, not the company because they will replace you in a heartbeat no matter how valuable you are. Everyone at work knows this so it's not me vs that guy, it's us vs the company.

 

[jarnol32]

That kind of thing has to be expected while things are so in flux. I don’t remember reading much of anything ever about an NFL coach losing the locker room over haves and have nots. But there, absolutely everyone makes at least the league minimum and it’s up to players to be a pro and self regulate over dealing with who’s a marquee player and who’s a reserve. College? No league minimum, yet.

In the nfl you are dealing with grown men who are performing their job. Most players in the league hire legit agents who often times possess law degrees to get the most out of their contracts. They hire accountants to help them manage their assets and tax liabilities.

College is completely different, some of these kids may be 18 but still have the mindset of a 12 year old. Some of these kids have parents who emotionally could pass for a low I.q. teenager guiding them in financial decisions. Others have uncle Tyrone who has a sports management degree telling them they can make more money at another school, all while hoping he gets his slice of the pie.
Until the ncaa puts up some guardrails the schools will continue to get burned over and over. Giving a ****** person a ton of money doesn’t buy loyalty. That was proven by what Nico’s father did, and will be proven over and over until rules are put into place to bring some stability to the situation.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

In the nfl you are dealing with grown men who are performing their job. Most players in the league hire legit agents who often times possess law degrees to get the most out of their contracts. They hire accountants to help them manage their assets and tax liabilities.

College is completely different, some of these kids may be 18 but still have the mindset of a 12 year old. Some of these kids have parents who emotionally could pass for a low I.q. teenager guiding them in financial decisions. Others have uncle Tyrone who has a sports management degree telling them they can make more money at another school, all while hoping he gets his slice of the pie.
Until the ncaa puts up some guardrails the schools will continue to get burned over and over. Giving a ****** person a ton of money doesn’t buy loyalty. That was proven by what Nico’s father did, and will be proven over and over until rules are put into place to bring some stability to the situation.

This is an interesting take because I see it all the time on VN that "these are grown men. Stop coddling them like kids. They're making money. Start treating them like men."

Suddenly, they're just kids again.

The truth is the game is unsustainable as a "not quite amateur but don't call them pros" business. It'll be chaos until we accept this is pro sports and needs to be governed as pro sports.

Despite the "I'll not follow college football if it's just a minor league sports team" cries, we're following it now and it's definitely not your Daddy's college football.

Make the top schools form a pro league and stop ruining college sports for smaller schools that never wanted college athletics to be a multi-million dollar business. It's the best of both worlds: real college ball for those who want it and elite up and coming stars pro ball for schools like UT.

 

[Delmar]

I assume all of you guys work for your coworkers and your personal money from the company doesn't matter?

It's a business. The sour grapes here is from old way of thinking. No one on the Colts needed to hate on Peyton for his salary, he dealt with the company just like they did.

You're trying to create a player vs player issue when like any job it's actually workers vs company.

You work to take care of yourself and your family, not the company because they will replace you in a heartbeat no matter how valuable you are. Everyone at work knows this so it's not me vs that guy, it's us vs the company.

You’re correct. That’s the way it should be but it won’t be that clean in every case. Evidently there were a fair number of Maryland players that had issues with it and it caused major problems within the team. And I believe the Banks issue before the South Carolina game had an element of NIL jealousy in it as well. It doesn’t matter what the fans think. There will still be issues with this going forward within some teams until they figure something out.

Now maybe when it goes to an employee/employer relationship with contracts, the players will understand that there will be some sort of formalized structure and negotiation.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You’re correct. That’s the way it should be but it won’t be that clean in every case. Evidently there were a fair number of Maryland players that had issues with it and it caused major problems within the team. And I believe the Banks issue before the South Carolina game had an element of NIL jealousy in it as well. It doesn’t matter what the fans think. There will still be issues with this going forward within some teams until they figure something out.

Now maybe when it goes to an employee/employer relationship with contracts, the players will understand that there will be some sort of formalized structure and negotiation.

This is the reason I've been adamant that teams like the Vols form a pro league and establish order. If they do, the Sherman Act is interpreted (apparently) as satisfied with collective bargaining in place, contracts, etc, etc. I'm still not a lawyer but apparently establishing collective bargaining, as Danny White says, will restore some sanity.

All colleges don't need this. Some do. NIL isn't ridiculous at a lot of schools. Guys at App State who do well can jump where the NIL and exposure is much better as we've seen, and help themselves. If that meant signing a contract, I betcha Joey would still be here.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Make the top schools form a pro league and stop ruining college sports for smaller schools that never wanted college athletics to be a multi-million dollar business. It's the best of both worlds: real college ball for those who want it and elite up and coming stars pro ball for schools like UT.

I don't really see any difference than that today. Seems the problem is fixed. There was no such thing as pro or amateur, it was all ********.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don't really see any difference than that today. Seems the problem is fixed. There was no such thing as pro or amateur, it was all ********.

The difference is the chaos. With contracts and collective bargaining guardrails, both the players and schools are working within controlled parameters and expectations.

All the highly successful pro sports use collective bargaining because it's obviously successful and it's relatively orderly for the athletes and the teams. NIL, like bagmen before it, is a wild west show of offers, tampering, etc.

Let's get on the same page as successful pro leagues and move on and hopefully college ball can still survive in some form at lesser schools.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The difference is the chaos. With contracts and collective bargaining guardrails, both the players and schools are working within controlled parameters and expectations.

All the highly successful pro sports use collective bargaining because it's obviously successful and it's relatively orderly for the athletes and the teams. NIL, like bagmen before it, is a wild west show of offers, tampering, etc.

Let's get on the same page as successful pro leagues and move on and hopefully college ball can still survive in some form at lesser schools.

It just looks like a market. None of this pertains to you, none of it has to pertain to the schools if they don't want it too. There is no same page, there really is no such thing as pro and amateur. Never was, that was the LIE.

You are creating a problem because you are not getting what you want but there really isn't a problem.

All the highly successful pro sports use collective bargaining because it's obviously successful and it's relatively orderly for the athletes and the teams. NIL, like bagmen before it, is a wild west show of offers, tampering, etc.

None of what you suggested changes any of that even an exemption from the Sherman act. Its not chaos, its chaos to you because you are not getting what you want. Even having an exemption or partial exemption really doesn't change the current ways things would be ran, not that I can see. The schools are not even interested in turning them into employees.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

It just looks like a market. None of this pertains to you, none of it has to pertain to the schools if they don't want it too. There is no same page, there really is no such thing as pro and amateur. Never was.

You are creating a problem because you are not getting what you want but there really isn't a problem.

I'm actually fine and encouraging it to go pro fully to protect the interests of the players and the schools. As I said, pro athletics leagues that are successful use collective bargaining, salary caps, etc to control the market legally because the talent is so scarce and salaries can go crazy BUT there was a history, as in college, of pro owners taking advantage of that talent before.

It's worked well for players and owners to establish guardrails for the market.

I'm getting what I want which is to watch good ball both professionally and what is currently college. My interest isn't waning because none of this is in my control and I have to let that part go.

For future success for college, however, I think collective bargaining and pro status is the correct way to handle it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'm actually fine and encouraging it to go pro fully to protect the interests of the players and the schools. As I said, pro athletics leagues that are successful use collective bargaining, salary caps, etc to control the market legally because the talent is so scarce and salaries can go crazy BUT there was a history, as in college, of pro owners taking advantage of that talent before.

It's worked well for players and owners to establish guardrails for the market.

I'm getting what I want which is to watch good ball both professionally and what is currently college. My interest isn't waning because none of this is in my control and I have to let that part go.

For future success for college, however, I think collective bargaining and pro status is the correct way to handle it.

It is fully pro, there is no such thing as amateur sports never was.

As I said, pro athletics leagues that are successful use collective bargaining, salary caps, etc to control the market legally because the talent is so scarce and salaries can go crazy BUT there was a history, as in college, of pro owners taking advantage of that talent before.

The only way to even partially control the market is an exemption but not sure of many schools wanting to take them on as employees plus the schools would be capped in theory, but most of this money is coming from third parties. Players would want to go to the where the money is i.e. no cap on the schools with third party payments.

pro status is the correct way to handle it

There is no pro or amateur status.


In theory schools could get together form a league and get an exemption:
- the players I would imagine would be considered employees
- third parties can still pay what they want
- i guess if they want to cap the schools they could but what is the purpose of that? most of the money is coming from outside of the schools
- the player could go outside of the league for no cap

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The only way to even partially control the market is an exemption but not sure of many schools wanting to take them on as employees plus the schools would be capped in theory, but most of this money is coming from third parties. Players would want to go to the where the money is i.e. no cap.



There is no pro or amateur status.

Legally, there is and that's what's led to the lawsuits, obviously. The pro leagues DON'T get sued because the Sherman Act has provisions for leagues IF they collective bargain and other things and I think it exists even without a formal exemption. That's how new pro leagues form without Congress giving them, their league, a specific exemption. They kind of "piggyback" on the rules already in place. The XFL or whatever DIDN'T get a specific congressional exemption yet they collectively bargain and don't get sued.

I'm not an attorney so I am not going to pretend to know all this in depth but I do know that the NCAA is getting sued for Antitrust and the XFL isn't. Neither has a formal Antitrust Exemption written just for them.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Legally, there is and that's what's led to the lawsuits, obviously. The pro leagues DON'T get sued because the Sherman Act has provisions for leagues IF they collective bargain and other things and I think it exists even without a formal exemption. That's how new pro leagues form without Congress giving them, their league, a specific exemption. They kind of "piggyback" on the rules already in place. The XFL or whatever DIDN'T get a specific congressional exemption yet they collectively bargain and don't get sued.

I'm not an attorney so I am not going to pretend to know all this in depth but I do know that the NCAA is getting sued for Antitrust and the XFL isn't. Neither has a formal Antitrust Exemption written just for them.

Legally there isn't which is what lead to the law suits, see US Supreme Court decision. Amateur sports was a lie.

In theory schools could get together form a league and get an exemption from Congress:
- the players I would imagine would be considered "employees"
- third parties can still pay what they want which is where all the money is coming from
- i guess if they want to cap the schools they could but what is the purpose of that? most of the money is coming from outside of the schools
- the player could go outside of the league for no cap


Not sure what you think you are getting out of that.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Legally there isn't which is what lead to the law suits, see US Supreme Court decision. Amateur sports was a lie.

In theory schools could get together form a league and get an exemption from Congress:
- the players I would imagine would be considered "employees"
- third parties can still pay what they want which is where all the money is coming from
- i guess if they want to cap the schools they could but what is the purpose of that? most of the money is coming from outside of the schools
- the player could go outside of the league for no cap


Not sure what you think you are getting out of that.

Less chaos for the teams and players. Contracts, less tampering and league remedies for it, no wholesale free agency, a set salary cap, etc and the ability for the players to have a say in all of the above via collective bargaining.

An orderly and business-like sports league stands a much greater chance of success and overall I like that goes on on the field on Sat and Sun and would like to see it thrive.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Less chaos for the teams and players. Contracts, less tampering and league remedies for it, no wholesale free agency, a set salary cap, etc and the ability for the players to have a say in all of the above via collective bargaining.

An orderly and business-like sports league stands a much greater chance of success and overall I like that goes on on the field on Sat and Sun and would like to see it thrive.

You have an orderly business, you just don't like the business. As far as the rest, no it probably won't work which is why most of them have been mute. Salary caps are not really possible, most of the money isn't coming from the schools depending on what we are talking about.

Actually you would have more tampering and the real remedies is you would have a bunch of leagues competing and non-leagues. It would actually get much worse for the school.

Hey guys, fast food working is a chaotic business - people are always leaving and getting better jobs, we should exempt the fast food companies.

To be honest, I would probably love to see the attempt just for entertainment (I wouldn't be completely surprised for sure), but I think it wouldn't out the way you envision.

Are you going to be drafting players too? What I am getting at is it seems to be very complex in this context, and with little to no benefit and some huge negatives tagged along.

 

[tennesseeduke]

It's no longer college football, is semi pro football played at colleges and universities.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You have an orderly business, you just don't like the business. As far as the rest, no it probably won't work which is why most of them have been mute. Salary caps are not really possible, most of the money isn't coming from the schools depending on what we are talking about.

Actually you would have more tampering and the real remedies is you would have a bunch of leagues competing and non-leagues. It would actually get much worse for the school.

Hey guys, fast food working is a chaotic business - people are always leaving and getting better jobs, we should exempt the fast food companies.

To be honest, I would probably love to see the attempt just for entertainment (I wouldn't be completely surprised for sure), but I think it wouldn't out the way you envision.

Most of the money IS coming from outside the schools TECHNICALLY but it's obvious the school is very involved. You're just ignoring that. NIL would dry straight up with negotiated salaries of substance for players coming from the team. That's as much a ruse as amateur athletics was at elite schools before NIL. NIL is a bandaid to fully pay athletes, a poor bandaid. VERY VERY VERY few college athletes have real serious NIL value.

Tampering exists in the NFL, NBA, and MLB but not a whole lot. The owners are in agreement that it's not good for the leagues. And by all means NOT ALL SCHOOLS NEED TO GO PRO. I envision about 40-50, at most in football. More or less might need to join in basketball.

Comparing athletics to fast food where literally ANYONE can work shows a lack of understanding of the talent of the workers. It's the scarcity of talent that gives us the salaries we see in pro leagues. People not wanting to work at all gives the chaos in fast food because those jobs don't require specialized skills.