I have to. (Missouri rant)

[VFL-82-JP]

For Vol seniors, I see Kerbyson, Jackson, and Crowder on the OL. Who am I missing?

And on defense Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil.

Crowder and McNeil will definitely be pushed by more talented underclassmen. I hope they both have incredible years as a result.

I think he's counting the three you do on offense, plus Pig Howard and Von Pearson (this is the optimistic view of Von's return, of course). That makes it 5 seniors starting on O.

I actually count one more on D than him and you: Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil, and possibly Williams as well. At least in the early part of the season when Mac and Shy are still in the two-deep but not starting. Could be wrong on that one, of course.

 

[sjt18]

See, this is why it's difficult to have a reasonable discussion with SOME of the Tenn fans. There's just so much emphasis on recruiting ratings--probably because you all have done well with the nerds who've never worn a jock ranking teenagers. I care far more "'bout that action, boss."

I am not someone who over focuses on recruiting rankings. They are "generally" accurate but can never be taken as "specifically" accurate. So while it would be incorrect to take a particular 3* signee and say he isn't as good as a specific 5* signee.... it is CORRECT to say that in general 5* recruits are better than 3* recruits. That makes the overall ranking system an accurate predictor. There is a poster here that's done a fairly full analysis- Daj2576 I think. He has established a general but direct correlation between Rivals' rankings and the probable outcome of matchups. About 70% of the time, the team with the most talent according to Rivals wins.

The recruiting sites don't find or recognize every player that deserves 4/5* rankings. But everything from player performance to the NFL draft validates that they are usually correct about the ones they give those high ratings to.

OTOH, I didn't even mention rankings. You've just attempted a diversion. I challenged you to look at the position groups. You can look at whatever measure of talent that suits you. UT is more talented. They're bigger, stronger, faster, and quicker... and have more of them that are.

Just a quick for instance. You are hoping that J'mon Moore becomes a featured WR for you. He wouldn't crack UT's two deep this fall. Hansborough is a very good back. He wouldn't be ahead of Hurd or Kamara. UT goes 4 deep at S with guys better than anyone MU can put on the field. At CB, UT has one of the best in CFB and then competition for the other spot between a handful of guys who may be more athletic (Moseley looked it even as an undersized Fr).

You may be at a disadvantage. Living in MO, I've taken a specific interest in this match up and have spent more time getting to know MU's roster than most others. You may not know that much about UT's roster. That's why I challenged you to actually do some research rather than spouting off.

 

[sjt18]

I will give it a go....if your basing your evaluation on recruiting ranking by rivals/scout/247 then it's a moot point and Tenn. Wins. Heck if you look at that stuff Tenn. the last 3yrs has had the talent advantage by a decent margin over Mizzou. For all your anguish over what Jones inherited you have no idea GP took over a program with zero scholarship DBs and less talent than Toledo or Ball st.

But if your talking about what position squad will be better come Sat. well that is a different animal. I will take our secondary,LB,& OL. QB is a push. Would of taken our DL with Brantley and Loud but those loses hurt so Tenn. wins Wr,RB and DL....special teams a push coaching to GP,games in CoMo should be close fun game.

It only has to do with recruiting rankings in as much as recruiting rankings are generally accurate reflections of talent.

Your team in '12 wasn't a championship team but it shouldn't have been a 5-7 team either. You were hit with critical injuries at the wrong time. Pretty much the same thing happened to UT's young squad last year. That combined with AJ's suspension (replaced by a true FR) really hurt UT vs MU. It happens. But UT is rapidly approaching a point where they can absorb those injuries much better.

The only reason I can think of that you would possibly take MU's secondary over UT's is that you haven't researched UT's secondary. UT's is better... and at this point it doesn't look real close.

LB is a little more subjective but UT does have better athletes and more of them. If you consider Maggitt a LB then it is UT without much question.

Your OL is likely better. UT's experienced players in most cases lack top end talent. Their talented players haven't developed enough to take over.

 

[sjt18]

For Vol seniors, I see Kerbyson, Jackson, and Crowder on the OL. Who am I missing?

And on defense Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil.

Crowder and McNeil will definitely be pushed by more talented underclassmen. I hope they both have incredible years as a result.

Pig and Pearson (assuming).

 

[sjt18]

When Pinkel arrived, he made the comment he didn't care about star rankings--they (his staff) were going to target/get the players they deemed were best for his system. I was a bit concerned & wondered if he was building in an excuse for future failures. I'm over that now. I put little thought into recruiting because we have a coach who has my total trust. Seeing a number of unheard of recruits who (were unranked thru 2 & 3 stars) go on to successful NFL careers tends to lead to such confidence. Going through & picking apart position groups? Seriously, I couldn't care less--I'm not your guy.

So you want to have a "reasonable" discussion... but without looking at facts. That sounds very "reasonable".

Pinkel has done well in being very consistent. There is something to be said for someone who can beat the opponent every time he has a talent advantage and more often than not when it is close. I'm still unsure that Jones can do that... which to me is the measure he should be judged by.

That said, facing UT and UF teams that are either in disarray or have talent similar to MU's isn't "normal" if you look back over the last 30 years or so. It is highly abnormal. The "norm" has been for the big 3 in the East to closely match and rival the big 3 in the West in terms of talent.

You once again delude yourself into believing you've seen the East in its "normal" state the past 3 years. You haven't... but it is coming.

I get the frustration. All we heard when we entered the SEC was that we'd be auto-wins for everyone. We'd compete w/Vandy for last place. I don't recall a single comment about the East being at historical lows.

Really? Then you specifically ignored UT's situation, right? You joined in the last year of Dooley's tumultuous tenure... after Kiffin... and after Fulmer's decline and ultimate fall. It was pretty big news in the national media...

Do you all bring this up because of the widely held belief that the year Tenn won the NC was one of the weakest in terms of quality teams in college football?

Cite a source demonstrating that is "widely" believed. As a UT fan, I should have heard it.

Now I may be unique in admitting that UT probably shouldn't have made that game. Stoerner's fumble was the "luck" it took.

Just as you all couldn't control the quality of other teams that season, we don't control the other programs in the East. Move on--that's tired & pathetic.

IOW's, you don't want to hear it because you have no real answer that you are willing to accept. The truly pathetic thing is that you refuse to look at the circumstances that came together allowing MU's success. It happens. That part we just all have to live with... regardless of which way that wind blows.

I'm sorry you're 0-for against us--we don't control that either (well--I guess we have controlled that aspect). Chances are, you all will get your first win against us within the next decade--I just don't understand all the gum-flapping until AFTER you get that initial win. I had a good time in Knoxville last year & enjoyed the game. As a bonus, I felt fortunate I didn't get hit by any flying objects directed at our players...Win-Win!

Just make sure you come back after that win. I suspect you won't have the courage to come back and take your medicine.

I'll say it again. If MU beats UT this fall, give Pinkel 100% of the credit. He will be a miracle worker, UT will have SERIOUS coaching issues, or both. UT is more talented. Last year it was close and especially after player losses are accounted for... this year it isn't.

tl;dr: Shut-up until you have enough bricks to beat us.

Yeah. Another sure sign someone wants a "reasonable" discussion... they tell others to "shut-up".:lolabove:

 

[sjt18]

I think he's counting the three you do on offense, plus Pig Howard and Von Pearson (this is the optimistic view of Von's return, of course). That makes it 5 seniors starting on O.

I actually count one more on D than him and you: Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil, and possibly Williams as well. At least in the early part of the season when Mac and Shy are still in the two-deep but not starting. Could be wrong on that one, of course.

I think one of the older guys starts at DT. Williams seems more likely than O'Brien. I think Mac gives UT something it has been missing since Big Dan. A "presence" at DT... a guy you have to account for on every single play.

 

[Rifleman]

I think he's counting the three you do on offense, plus Pig Howard and Von Pearson (this is the optimistic view of Von's return, of course). That makes it 5 seniors starting on O.

I actually count one more on D than him and you: Maggitt, Randolph, McNeil, and possibly Williams as well. At least in the early part of the season when Mac and Shy are still in the two-deep but not starting. Could be wrong on that one, of course.

Cool. Pig is definitely a dangerous and experienced weapon. He and Smith will be interchangeable and will both cause people fits. I lean toward Smith starting because his route precision creates textbook spacing in the passing game. Notice how many times people get wide open when he's in the game.

I have noticed that Butch and Coach Z rarely respond to my yelling at the screen, though, so they may very well start Pig.

 

[TXStiger]

Talent disparity is why you got curb stomped by UGA last year.

Turnovers by a wounded QB is why UGA won in a runaway. Talent is just another way to talk stars. We were out-talented many times throughout the season last year. If we wanted to focus exclusively on our advantages, we might limit the discussion to comparing Pinkel & Brick. Wins fellas--on the field...not in February.

 

[TXStiger]

You may be at a disadvantage. Living in MO, I've taken a specific interest in this match up and have spent more time getting to know MU's roster than most others. You may not know that much about UT's roster. That's why I challenged you to actually do some research rather than spouting off.

It's still not getting through: match-ups, stars, brick by brick, talent...spouting off? Why do you think I'm here? All we've heard is Tenn will own us since we arrived. I would've thought the vols going winless against us might shut some mouths...it's only seemed to accelerate said spouting off. Scoreboard simply doesn't matter to some of you--it's all that matters to me. Catch on.

 

[chargervol]

It's still not getting through: match-ups, stars, brick by brick, talent...spouting off? Why do you think I'm here? All we've heard is Tenn will own us since we arrived. I would've thought the vols going winless against us might shut some mouths...it's only seemed to accelerate said spouting off. Scoreboard simply doesn't matter to some of you--it's all that matters to me. Catch on.

So you don't like what UT fans have to say, your solution -go to a Tennessee board. I know others have already pointed to flaws in your logic but I seriously think you may have issues.

Now for the rest, the discussion has always been you guys wanting the credit you have earned, plus more than you deserve. We know you beat us, you may look at several threads. We have been very honest about how bad we have been. You guys had better teams than us for 3 years.

See how easy that is? If you will try to accept the credit given to you and stop begging for more than you deserve (or making excuses about playing UGA), it will begin to make sense.

 

[TXStiger]

Yeah. Another sure sign someone wants a "reasonable" discussion... they tell others to "shut-up".:lolabove:

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings little lamb. I thought it would be apparent but maybe not. Allow me to try again for your tender heart:

My dear, sensitive vol fans, as is the case with respectful fans, ease refrain from flapping your gums when a team owns you in the manner Mizzou has owned you. At least improve the series record to .250 before running your mouth. Until then, Daddy says zip it up.

 

[Rifleman]

Hey, everybody! Here's a great example of how to do the Missouri Waltz . . . .

STEP ONE: offer lame contextual excuses for Mizzou catching an absolute beat down by a superior team.

Turnovers by a wounded QB is why UGA won in a runaway.

STEP TWO: pretend in your very next post that you only care about the score, not the context of a particular win or loss.

Scoreboard simply doesn't matter to some of you--it's all that matters to me. Catch on.

STEP THREE: explain that all scoreboards were not created equally when it comes to the whole "it's all that matters to me" proposition.

STEP FOUR: watch as we all have a good laugh at your expense. lol::good!::crazy::thumbsup:

 

[KBVol]

Turnovers by a wounded QB is why UGA won in a runaway. Talent is just another way to talk stars. We were out-talented many times throughout the season last year. If we wanted to focus exclusively on our advantages, we might limit the discussion to comparing Pinkel & Brick. Wins fellas--on the field...not in February.

Was Mauk trying to stop Uga's run game? He was awful throwing the ball, but your defense gave up 34 points, only 13 of which came on drives following a Mizzou turnover. Your defense was just as culpable as Mauk for the loss

 

[sjt18]

Turnovers by a wounded QB is why UGA won in a runaway.

Oh, that's why fresh off of losing their Heisman candidate forcing them to basically a one deep rotation of Chubb... and Chubb.... they scored 34 points on your D.

So if that's the reason UGA won in a runaway then I guess it would be legitimate for UT fans to say if the Vols weren't missing AJ, Williams, the starting center, and North... Mizzou's 8 pt win wouldn't have occurred?

Talent is just another way to talk stars.

No. Talent is a way of talking talent though the recruiting services have demonstrated over time that the guys they give "stars" to almost always have significant talent.

Funny... Mizzou fans change their tunes pretty quickly when they happen to land one of those players with "stars".... DBG, Beckner, Lock, et al.

We were out-talented many times throughout the season last year. If we wanted to focus exclusively on our advantages, we might limit the discussion to comparing Pinkel & Brick. Wins fellas--on the field...not in February.

You will probably feel like you've been hit by a bus when the East gets back to normal.

 

[sjt18]

Mauk has played in 16 SEC games. His completion % has been 50% or under in 11 of them. His poor performance vs UGA wasn't an anomaly except for more turnovers.

 

[sjt18]

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings little lamb. I thought it would be apparent but maybe not. Allow me to try again for your tender heart:

My dear, sensitive vol fans, as is the case with respectful fans, ease refrain from flapping your gums when a team owns you in the manner Mizzou has owned you. At least improve the series record to .250 before running your mouth. Until then, Daddy says zip it up.

Hurt feelings... lol:lol:lol:

Interesting definition of "owned" you have there. You've played UT at its lowest ebb in over 100 years of football. The Vols have lost more games in the last 3 years than any other 3 year period... and yet you only managed to win two of those games by a single score.

UT has had six 7 loss seasons since 1902. Five of those have occurred since 2008... as UT held on to Fulmer too long. Two of your victories were against one of those 6 very "unique" teams.


OH... and since excuses are OK and "reasonable" according to you... Dobbs as a true Fr was making his first collegiate start vs you in '12 on the road. His top 5 WR's were all Fr or Sophs.... who had notable drive ending drops.

Well... I guess that comparison kind of breaks down since Dobbs still managed to throw for 62% and 240 yds... both of which would be career days for your poor wounded little QB. Only once has Mauk completed over 60% of his passes vs an SEC team.... UK. Poor, poor little wounded thing...:birgits_giggle:

 

[sjt18]

BTW, Dobbs has played in 11 games. Ten of those games came against SEC opponents. In five of those games (4 vs the SEC), Dobbs completed over 60% of his passes.

And... there are active debates on this forum as to whether Dobbs is accurate enough.

 

[LittleVol]

BTW, Dobbs has played in 11 games. Ten of those games came against SEC opponents. In five of those games (4 vs the SEC), Dobbs completed over 60% of his passes.

And... there are active debates on this forum as to whether Dobbs is accurate enough.

You must really despise MIzzou :yes:

I really won't argue a case against them. After all they are 3-0 against us...

But we can't change that. I am certain we get them in the here and now; this upcoming season.

 

[chargervol]

You must really despise MIzzou :yes:

I really won't argue a case against them. After all they are 3-0 against us...

But we can't change that. I am certain we get them in the here and now; this upcoming season.

I'm not sure if I have seen any of our members say more positive things about Pinkel than SJT. Nor have I seen anyone argue a case against their wins.
I guess I'm just missing something with this post :hi:

 

[drylo]

sjt killing it up in here!

 

[ImportedVoL]

Ya there is no doubt that Mizzou benefitted a great deal from the fact that UT has been way down since they joined the league.

The way I see it, merry christmas/happy birthday etc..

They got their freebies, now it is no holds barred and time to take out the trash. I predict they will not beat us again this decade as long as CBJ stays at Tennessee.

And as for Florida, it is time to start a new streak. This time with us on top.

GBO

 

[StlOx]

Here's a former Mizzou Tiger you might just have to root for.

Titans long-snapper hits hole-in-one, wins barrel of Jack Daniels - CBSSports.com

The kid was a walk-on.

 

[StlOx]

Mauk has played in 16 SEC games. His completion % has been 50% or under in 11 of them. His poor performance vs UGA wasn't an anomaly except for more turnovers.

Yeah it was.

Mauk is a gunslinger. Loves to hit home runs. Not good at working the chains.

Finally after the UGA game, the game plans changed. Tied his hands down and made him start working the chains. More runs, including him, and short passes.

He still got his shots and did a great job in delivering.

But it was the changes in what the OC called him to do.

 

[ptcarter]

Does Mizzou own us? I knew a guy who thought he owned his house. Didn't make the payments and one day he didn't own it anymore. Just saying...

 

[TXStiger]

Hey, everybody! Here's a great example of how to do the Missouri Waltz . . . .

STEP ONE: offer lame contextual excuses for Mizzou catching an absolute beat down by a superior team.



STEP TWO: pretend in your very next post that you only care about the score, not the context of a particular win or loss.



STEP THREE: explain that all scoreboards were not created equally when it comes to the whole "it's all that matters to me" proposition.

STEP FOUR: watch as we all have a good laugh at your expense. lol::good!::crazy::thumbsup:

Okay, Simp...link me to a post where I'm running my mouth about the Mizzou/UGA game last year. Are you aware of how this began? Various fans peruse other boards & post links to threads about Mizzou on our board. Check the OP in that thread. I have never run my mouth about UGA but it's not the same regardless. We've actually beaten UGA in our history (& won the division two of the three years we've been competing with them). So nice you have them to cash the checks you can't. Take a shower & wash that pathetic off of you, son...have some pride & fight your own battles.